Elk Hunting Cartridge?

[AuProspector]

Howdy Folks

Since I'm new here to HA 'n this here is my first post, I was a wonderin' whut caliber y'all recommend fer my first elk hunt in those Rocky Mtns.

I know that the 270 Winchester aint much. Same goes fer the .30-06. What do you think is the best one.

[Altjaeger]

The .204 Ruger is about as perfect as you can get. That hydrostatical shock just turning them inside out, skins, cuts and wraps them so all you have to do is put the packages in the freezer.:eek::rolleyes:;):D:D:D

[rimrock]

the 270 win loaded with a 150 grain speer over 54 grains of IMR 4831 with a fed 215 primer
or
the 30/06 loaded with a 200 grain speer over 49 grains of ww760 with a fed 215 primer
will kill any ELK effectively


but my favorite calibers are the 338 win

250 grain hornady over 60 grains of ww760 with a fed 215 primer
and
35 whelen, loaded with a 250 speer over 54 grains of IMR 4895 with a fed 215 primer
or
a 375 H&H

300 grain hornady over 77 grains of ww760 with a fed 215 primer

any of the five work fine PROVIDED you place your shots well, the three heavier calibers seem to get the job done a bit faster but a single hit in the right place with any of those results in a dead ELK

[Rock Chuck]

Rimrock, you're not familiar with Auprospector. He uses 2 mules just to tow his howitzer up the trail.

[Altjaeger]

Rimrock, you're not familiar with Auprospector. He uses 2 mules just to tow his howitzer up the trail.

He traded 3 ex-wives for that Pack 75mm!!! :D:D:D

[Bushman]

I think it all depends on ifn your are going to shoot 'em in the kester or not. Welcome back Aup, we have been kind of wondering where you been.

[StringJumper]

I think the best cartridge is the 7MM Ultra Short Magnum...When you fire it you better not miss because 3 seconds later the bullet will strike you in the back of the right shoulder - about 3" low.

[Herne]

Helps if you untie the knot at the back of the cork before loading the round? Less prone to whip round and get you like that.

[Altjaeger]

Helps if you untie the knot at the back of the cork before loading the round? Less prone to whip round and get you like that.

:D:D:D

[Bill Gunn]

Helps if you untie the knot at the back of the cork before loading the round? Less prone to whip round and get you like that.

l o l :D :D

[AuProspector]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hi Ball]

Well now Prospector, I reckon I will just have to say I'll be tottin my 45/110 Sharps this year in them thar Rocky Mountains for Mr. Wapiti. I figure this may be the last year fer huntin those critters in the high country, soos I want to do er right proud ya might say.:rolleyes: :D

Say, how goes dustin them friggin fields down your way? Well, I know my trusty .338 Win mag will become cantankerous over not gettin the call fer the hunt but so much is life these days. Now ifin you happins to be up near the Chariton River this deer season, yall be keepin your eyes peeled to the Southwest, as I will be on the other side of the big hickry 1/4 mile off the township line from the river.

Now just to get your blood boilin sum, there is a real nice 12 pointer says Clem, who care takes them thar 280 acres of mine and the better halfs. I'll be usin the 6.5/06 this year just soos you know, with a 140 grain TBBC. I do hope you don't get skunked!!!:rolleyes: :eek: :eek: :D

[rimrock]

I just got back from a trip to the range with a friend that's been on over a dozen ELK hunts with me over the years,
where I sighted in a new 4x Leopold scope on my 450 marlin BLR rifle, while my friend who was also sighting in his new 358 win BLR, for our next ELK HUNT, was sighting in..
While I was there a younger guy was on the next bench on the opposite side from my friend, Im guessing was about 24 years old, was sighting in a 300 mag, and it was rather obvious that the recoil was making him flinch, his targets showed his accuracy was very inconsistent, even off the bench rest.
we started talking and I ask him why he had the 300 mag, and it turned out hes going on his second ELK hunt next year, we discussed, his last hunt where he used a 270 win and he had shot a legal bull but it ran a couple hundred yards before falling, further discussion relieved he had hit a bit further back and lower than intended with his rifle but that seemed to have not registered mentally as a factor in the elk running after it was hit, hence the new 300 mag being purchased.
he then looked over at my lever gun and inquired about what I was hunting, when I informed him it was to be used for hunting ELK in the dark timber he let me know that most ELK were shot at ranges of "300-700 yards" and that my lever action was going to be woefully under powered and would not have the required reach, I smiled and wished him luck (he was obviously going to need it by the truck load if his targets were an indication), (MY FRIEND could hardly keep from laughing, when he heard that)
the younger guy then inquired about my up coming ELK HUNT and if Id ever been hunting ELK before, I told him it would be my 31st elk, hunt in COLORADO (a couple years were archery hunts) and Id hunted 4 years in WYOMING before that, and that the guy on the bench on the other side of me was going on his 13th hunt.
I then pointed out that archery hunts tended to be at a bit less than "300-700 yards" to which he responded that that was because without the pressure and noise of gunfire, elk were far less skittish, during archery season, and then he assured me that once the gunfire echos thru the canyons Id need that rifle range advantage, that a 300 or 7mm mag has.
damn I bet all the ELK Ive killed over the years wish they knew that.....that heavier caliber rifles, with big old slow bullets fired from under 300 yards were worthless and not fatal, but its probably been hard for those ELK to hear that from the freezer, in those zip-loc bags and wax paper, and my partner just kept smiling and egging him on, because the areas we hunt have a decent population of elk (THE WHITE RIVE FOREST, DEEP CREEK,FLAT TOPS,AREAS, IN COLORADO) and yes theres lots of open areas, where a 300 mag could be an asset, but in the last 20 plus years NEITHER of us has SEEN an elk past 250 yards while hunting, simply because any ELK with a working brain ducks into cover at day light in most areas.
cover consisting of aspen ,conifer, and oak brush that you need to sneak thru and locate them in, and its been my experience most ELK try to AVOID detection by staying in the densest , thickest and hard to access ridges,banks,blow-downs and patches of timber or narrow & steep side canyon they can locate

http://www.grumpysperformance.com/deepcreek.JPG
if your going out west to hunt ELK a rifle with a flat trajectory and decent power , that falls in the range between the 270 win and 375H&H will do just fine PROVIDED the guy carrying it knows how to shoot, its not the rifle nearly as much as the skill of the guy holding it that will effect the results, but don,t assume its your only option or that something like a 308 win 325 win,or 444 marlin, 450 marlin, won,t produce consistent kills in skilled hands

[Bushman]

Rimrock, an old thread and it reads like you have changed your opinion some from last year's post. I agree that those big bores that you mentioned would work pretty well in the black timber. Elk are more of a grazing animal than a deer is, but as the season progresses, they do most of their traveling in the open at night. I did catch one of my bulls in the open with a bunch of cows, but they were not grazing they were moving between cover and I was there really early. I didn't start seeing most of my elk until I started hunting them like deer back home thinking more about security than feeding. That was hunting black timber and fingers that created funnels. We had a situation where the horse guys would come up through a draw every morning and if a non-horse guy got up the mountain in the dark between them and where the elk wanted to go, a guy could get a crack at one that was being driven out ahead by the horse guys. I did not feel handicapped in the least with a 7mm RM even in the black timber and it didn't recoil so hard so as to affect my ability to shoot at longer range if I had to. My choice would be to arm one's self with something that would fit both a close in black timber situation plus something that would tag one at some distance too.

[AuProspector]

WimWock

I wuz wif you right up 'til ya said that you can hunt Mr. Hartford wif a "270 ot a .375 H7H." Dat be OK wif the .375 butt don't be leading astray these young whipperSnappers on the .270 er .30-06 as a Danny Elk cartridge. Those two cartridges are two of the worse wounders of the elks. They don't put the elks on the ground...DRT (dead right there) and they wonder off to die.

These City Slickers who come up to my Rocky Mtns are lazy sorts because they shoot way beyond their skill levels. They take a shot, the elks wonder back into the timber, then their to dam lazy to walk over yonder to see if'n there's a blood trail. At least wif a .375 you'd know if'n they're hit. AND, I knows whut I'ma talkin' about cuz I've been on at least 2 elks hunt! Therefer I bee an expert!

Also, these Greenhorns shoot maybe a 1/2 box of shells a year and think thet they are "Daniel Boone." If'n they can't stands to shoot with a calibre worthy of putting down an elks right now because of the recoil (bunch of Sissy's), they need to stay home and knit socks wif the Womins!!!! A sorry lot, they are.

So, There you are.


PS How are all the rest of you Sock Knitters doing anyhow? Hehehe. It's been a while.
Signed
Yer Buddy
AuProspector 'n Scratch (My mule)

[Chuck S]

A nearby gun smith has talked me into usin a .308 Whelen! :cool1: Talk about an Elk Killer! :vollkommenauf:

[T2133]

I would prefer the .30-06 because of the wide light to heavy bullet selection.

[rimrock]

I would prefer the .30-06 because of the wide light to heavy bullet selection.

just as a point of discussion, having used a 30/06 on several elk and knowing several other people that have used one for many years on elk hunts,
I,m rather curious why you feel that way,or use that as a basis for selecting a cartridge, the obvious ,conclusion, based on that statement, would be that theres a "wide light to heavy bullet selection" that will work equally well on elk, now I have zero doubt that a 150 grain-thru a 220 grain bullet weight could be successfully used and result in a dead ELK, BUT I don,t think that all weights would work with equal efficiency, under most conditions and that theres a rather limited range of weights that would prove to be close to ideal...now obviously no one person gets to shoot enough elk to get truly valid statistical proof , but I think you'll find , if you could check with the ammo sales statistics and check what every ones carrying in the field,most guys use the 165grn-200grain bullets and find those tend to work reasonably well. (I can,t remember very many cases of guys in our elk camp using anything but the 180grn-220grn bullets personally)
I hand load for many of my friends and most of them request the 180-200 grain, bullets, but theres two older guys (my original elk hunting mentors) that feel the elk hunting world revolves around the slide action 30/06 Remington and 220 grain round nose bullets they have used for at least 40 years
now if you had included hunting mule deer and used the same 30/06 I would tend to agree, that a wider range of bullet weights might be useful but then your faced with two different trajectories

[Chuck S]

The nice thing about the.308 Whelen:cool1: is that it shoots all those bullets too and better yet it balances the weight versus the velocity so that any one of them from the lowly 135 gn up to the old 250 gn Barnes (when you can find them) become instant Elk killers!:vollkommenauf:

[T2133]

Rim Rock
I was only suggesting the caliber because 180+ grain would certainly dump a bull at the right distance, but also an owner would enjoy other loads for other species.

[rimrock]

good point, well taken!

I think we spend a great deal more time discussing, differences in calibers and there effectiveness than is truly warranted , I killed my first few bull elk and a cow elk with a 30/06 and 200 grain speer bullets , those worked just fine if you only looked at the results pragmatically, IE, one shot resulted in a dead elk, but I was young and wanted the ELK to drop on bullet impact, so I bought a 340 wby, and the next few ELK did drop, but as I gained experience I found that although the heavier calibers tended to work a bit more consistently when I did my part placing the shot well, the caliber was not as important as the shot placement, Ive since use a 358 win,35 whelen, 45/70, 378 wby,375 H&H, 458 win, on elk hunts (hey Im a rifle nut)but after 40 plus years , hunting ELK its rather obvious that most of my experienced freinds or I could use almost anything from a 257 Roberts to a 458 win and kill elk.
now obviously the calibers with both a flat trajectory (at least 2500fps minimum)and a substantial bullet weight, (150-300 grain) in the better bullet designs will have an advantage

[Snapdragon]

I suppose staying up at night worrying about whether your rifle is going to work on elk is part of the process of getting ready for an elk hunt. I think more worry should be spent on whether your body is up to the hunt and a lot less on whether your chambering is appropriate. As stated earlier, there is a wide selection of chamberings that work just fine on elk. I didn't know which rifle I was going to use this year until about a week before I left. I was considering rifles in .270 WSM, 7mm RM, 7mm WSM, 30/06, .325 WSM, ,338 WM, 35 Whelen, and .375 H&H. All should work well. I ruled out the .270 WSM because it was not grouping as well as I hoped it would. I ruled out the 7 mm RM because I had used it quite successfully on a previous hunt and wanted to try something different. It was my ace in the hole, a M70 Classic that has seen the death of many animals. I had not had the time to work up a great load for the 7mm WSM and would have to use only a verygood load. The 30/06 M70 Classic with 168 grain TSX bullets was up near the top of the list. It is a veteran rifle shooting a great load. The A-Bolt .325 WSM is light, handy, accurate, and a proven killer on deer with my reloads. I had not used the 35 Whelen enough inthe field to be comfortable with it and it is a heavy rifle. The .375 H&H is a little heavier than some of the others but has proven itself under a variety of conditions. I chose the Super Grade M70 .338 WM for a variety of reasons. I got it shooting 210 grain Barnes quite nicely. It is lighter than all except the .325 WSM. I had shot it more in the last 6 months than any other rifle while trying to get it behaving properly. It is a very beautiful rifle.

The point is that you can kill elk quite dead with a whole bunch of different rifles. Pick one you shoot well and use it.
I picked the .338 and killed a nice 6x6. I could have killed it with any of the other chamberings I considered.
( I didn't even consider such chamberings as .243 Win or .257 Roberts even though they have been used to kill lots of elk. I would not have been comfortable using them under the conditions I knew I would encounter.)

[rimrock]

THAT

"I would not have been comfortable using them under the conditions I knew I would encounter."

has a great deal to do with any hunters rifle selection, Ive always felt most of the 33-37 calibers pushing at least a 200 grain bullet to at least 2500fps were about ideal
Ive had a good deal of luck with the 35 whelen-375 H&H and so have many of my freinds on ELK hunts

[Unclebuck257]

This is always an interesting subject when it comes up. While I would not recommend that a first time Elk hunter, or the Elk hunter who has saved up for a couple/few years for his first Elk hunt even consider using any caliber smaller than a 270, with 150 gr bullets, and really shouldn't use anything less than a 30 caliber with 180 gr bullets, as has already been stated, bullet placement is still just as important.

I've guided hunters shooting a 270, with 150 gr bullets, and a big bull doesn't always go down right away. I had one hunter who did just that, who literally shot 5 times, hitting the bull all 5 times before it finally went down. His bullet placement ranged from a little above the bread basket to (in a straight line) half way back from the heart/lung area. Luckily, the bull had walked out of the dark timber and well into an open meadow when I told him to fire and the first of the five shots was fired. Admittedly, the bull didn't run, but he definitely stayed on his feet walking around slowly.

My buddy, the outfitter himself, had a cow tag for fourth season this year and I talked to him two days ago from the cabin in the mountain above Gunnison. He nailed his big cow shooting a 243 caliber, in one shot. His shot placement was perfect and she went down immediately. He does that every year too.

When I hunted Elk every year for 20 something years, I liked to shoot my 300 Wby, with handloads I worked up, with 200 gr BarnesX bullets. When shot, they usually only dropped, but again the bullet placement was always heart/lungs. I can't remember any one of my Elk ever going more than 30 yds, at the most, after being shot. Again, shot placement was extremely important and I believe more so than probably the 300 Wby caliber itself.

[Hi Ball]

Well gents, I been elk hunting a time or two and I can tell you all, it is more important to have practiced with the rifle and caliber of your choice, several times before hand and at various distances, than what brand of rifle or bullet you shoot. I have hunted and shot elk with the .270 Winchester and don't think much of it as a killer of bull elk. It really lacks a big enough bullet weight wise........my humble opinion. I used the 30-06, 7mm Rem. mag, .300 Win mag, .338 Win mag, .375H&H and somewhere in between I gave the .37-Whelen a run for it's money as well as a .358 Norma mag. Oh yes, lets not forget the 25-06 that really wasn't meant to be an elk gun. The bullets I used where mostly premium after I started reloading bullets.

[Poor Man]

30-06 is the best rifle ever made it will handle coyotes to buffalo elk deer moose ect. It has been around for years and a 180 grain remington cor-loct is best for elk or any 180gr. bullet that is bonded. .270 will work good to with the heviest core-loct I belive it is 165gr. but definatly use the 06 if you have both

[AuProspector]

30-06 is the best rifle ever made it will handle coyotes to buffalo elk deer moose ect. It has been around for years and a 180 grain remington cor-loct is best for elk or any 180gr. bullet that is bonded. .270 will work good to with the heviest core-loct I belive it is 165gr. but definatly use the 06 if you have both

POOR MAN

Are you old ennuf to remember "Saturday Night Live" TV frum the 70's? You remember "Jane, you ignorant slut?" Well, thet is about the dumbest piece of advise I ever did see! :)

You see, the pee pee muscled .30-06 'n .270 might kill Mr Hartford on occassion but it wounds them more often than not. Most Nimrods never even shoot their blunderbusts the whole friggin' year b/c they're cheap Nimrods, then go out and "hope I hit sumpting."

There ain't no shootin' bench wif ya out in the field. And if'n ya City Slickers flub the shot, thet bees when ya needs a caliber thet'll plow clean through their Gizzard. A 35 Whelen, .338 or .375 is about just right.

If'n ya can't handle the recoil of them, then y'all needs ta go knit socks wif da womin's!

Keep yur Powder Dry (and don't go saying Ol' AuP don't know whut he's a talkin' about)

Knotheads just don't know shucks bout hunting elks!

[Poor Man]

AuProspector
no i did not grow up in the 70s i aint near that old but my crudentials on elk hunting are at my website www.publiclandforthepoorman.com where are yours?? Who is ignorant? Ive known guys who have harvested elk with 270s and 30-06 rifles.

[AuProspector]

AuProspector
no i did not grow up in the 70s i aint near that old but my crudentials on elk hunting are at my website www.publiclandforthepoorman.com where are yours?? Who is ignorant? Ive known guys who have harvested elk with 270s and 30-06 rifles.

Whaaag! Those are your 'crudentials'? A website where City Slicker's shoot a few deers (no disrespect intended partner). But thet ain't sucks. I've been huntin' the Rockys fer 50 years. Most City Slicks are road hunters anyway and are just happy ta see one, let alone know where ta find them on public land. (They usually camp out at an opening thet looks good to them ~10:00AM.) Maybe they shoot one er two Elks 'n think their experts. If'n they knew anything at 'tall, they'd know thet them critters are hard to put on the deck. On public land yer so proud of hunting, you'll need somethink even more powerful and more so, than a .30-06 and especially a wimpy .270. No way Hoss. If'n you don't drop them NOW, the next Road Hunter not 300 yards frum you will take your elks....

My Crudentials: Know whut else, I've hunted elks since 1967, guided fer a while, 'n gots snowed in, tramped on, throwed off, knocked down, buck off, gutted out 'n killed a bunch of elks and I'd done seen a bunch killed. Of every caliber I've used and saw used on elks, I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for either of those two calibers you suggested. Whaag, I've seen elks hard hit wif a .300 mag and go right over the next hill. A heavy caliber and bullet is what you need and especially when you flub the shot. Then you needs a bullet thet'll plow clean through a bunch of ****, including the gizzard! I don't need some computer keyboard City Silcker tryin' to sell a bunch of whoo haww smoke up the pubilcs fanny ta tell me different.

However:
If'n a Pilgrim would shoot his Ol' Besty, say 500 rounds a year. Be willing NOT to shoot Mr. Hartford when the shot wasn't just so and I can hit the side of a barn while it's movin', then we can talk. Nope, City Slickers don't spend the time nor the $$$ to do it right, IMHO.

BTW, I put a minimum of 10,000 round range a year, ride the high county on "Scratch, My Mule." How about you Pilgrim?

Glad yer at HA. Just maybe we can educate a few more City Slickers. You'll learn if'n you kills enough elks and follow AuP's advise. YesSirReeBob.

Here a question fer ya Boy, by looking at an elks track, how duz ya tell the difference frum a cow or a bull track (and NO, Dey can't bee standing in them!)? If'n ya don't know sumthing thet simple, well Mrs Clementine teaches SOCK KNITTIN' 101!

[Altjaeger]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Just as jaw jackin crazy as ever.:biggrin:

[Hi Ball]

Prospector, Sorry I missed ya on the mountain last fall. I had some type of problem with my blood gettin to much sugar. It sort of affected my friggin feet and it is real tuff to hunt elk in the high country if ya can't walk more than 10 feet. So I just stayed home and cleaned guns most of the fall and winter. I got me a new shootin iron I do......they call it a real deer slaiyer! I puts a 700 grain bullet on the case and it blows it out the barrel at 2200fps. I figure to get me 2 of them elk next season with one premium bullet, just to make up fer last season don't cha know.
I want cha to poilish up them thar choppers and arrow planes too! Any luck I'll be sittin on the banks of the river up at Chariton this deer season...........Don't be shootin over the fence neather ya har me!!!:tongue::tongue:

[AuProspector]

Hey you Ol Coon, thet pea shooter sounds just about right fer deers!

I left ya a PM.

[Altjaeger]

Goldie. hear you are going with a 75mm pack (mountain) howitzer and canister. Scratch can haul the barrel, but whose packing the carriage? Are you simply sighting down the barrel across a boulder?:biggrin:

[AuProspector]

Howdy Jiggy

How've you been? Good ta sea thet your upright. Goodness I needs to git around here more often. Nobody left to hoorah!

Hi Balls, (he really needs to git thet fixed), said he was off his feed fer a while when his compuuter crashed. I figured I'd stop in 'n say hello.

[Hi Ball]

Au, I just thought I would be dropping you a line or three, soo's you know It was me on the other side of the mountain! Now when you hear that big Boooooooooom, don't be a feared none A-Tall you hear. Now it is only me shootin that newest big bore rifle the wife let me fetch home.

I'll say one thing fer shore, one of them loaded up shells will cover the cost of a good steak dinner you betcha. The fellar that sold me the rifle, said that it will shoot plumb end to end of any big bull in the mountains. I'll need to float a loan at the local bank, just soo's I can purchase them bullets for the big bruiser. It is a CZ-550 in the .500-Jeffery and a 10 pack of loaded ammo is $180.oo dollars.........geez I must be getting soft headed says my wife!