Your Ideal African Battery

[postoak]

Or rather batteries, one set for plains game only:

1 rifle:

2 rifle:

3 rifle:

A second set for dangerous game only:

1 rifle:

2 rifle:

3 rifle:

(or more if you think it a good idea)

Could you hunt everything in Africa with just a .375 H&H?

[postoak]

I can't believe no responses, so far. All the African hunters must have been lost when we moved to this new server!

So, I'll play with myself (:D ).

Plains game only:

1 rifle: 300 WM

2 rifles: .270 WSM and .375 H&H

3 rifles: .223, .270 WSM, and .375 H&H

Dangerous Game only:

1 rifle: .416 of some kind

2 rifle: .375 H&H and a .458 Lott (really, for leopard, I'd like just a .300 WM, if it were legal)

[Pat Hurley]

Postoak ----- When I went to the Selous in Tanzania I used a Winchester Model 70 Safari Classic in .416 rem for Buffalo. On the plains game I used a .358 STA in Model 70 Winchester. I loaded 270 grain North Fork bullets for the .358 STA and 370 grain North Fork softs and solids for the .416 Rem. both served me well, when I go back I will use the same. Good shooting.

[postoak]

I just read the minimum for leopard is 7mm, so like I said, my dangerous game battery would be a .300 WM and a .416 mag of some sort (probably the Ruger).

[Hi Ball]

I don't really think nor believe I need 3 different rifle calibers to accomplish my goals on another African Safari. However, I'll play the game and tell you what I would take if having to do so.

#1. model 70 Winchester in .338 Win Mag, shooting 225 grn TBBC.

#2. model 70 Winchester in .416 Remington Mag, 400 grn Swift A Frames

#3. model 70 Winchester in .475 Mag, 500 grn Woodlieghs

[Wismon]

How about:

7x57
9.3x62
.404 Jeffery

You couldn't get too much more classically African than that. Load up or down as appropriate.

Or take a .458 Win Mag with various levels of loading, i.e. a fast 350 gr bullet for plains game and a slowish 450 gr or 500 gr loading for the big stuff. I guess. I don't know...

[postoak]

Well, I gave you the option of 1, 2, or 3 rifles, but let's stay with 3, cause it's more interesting.

I gotta admit I've never even heard of a .475 magnum. Apparently it's a wildcat; actually more than one.

I like the ballistics, it would certainly solve any putative weakness that the .458 WM has.

.457 Ackley Magnum: 600 grain bullet at MV of 2250 fps.

That same article says that it isn't as powerful as the .475 H&H, but I couldn't find those ballistics.

Which do you have Hi-Ball?

[postoak]

Okay my 3 rifle all-game battery would be:

.25-06
.338 WM
.458 Lott

[postoak]

Actually, I would substitute the .35 Whelen for the .338 WM. This is based on some email discussion I've had with outfitters. Their emphasis is always on a large diameter bullet, rather than sheer power, for plains game. They also emphasis the use of premium bullets to assure penetration. But .30-06 capacity cartridges have enough oomph in their opinion -- no need for magnums.

[Bwana416]

Plains game:
Weatherby Mk V in .240 Wby for animal under 100# body mass
Model 70 in .270 for most anything from 100-300# body mass
Model 70 in .338 WinMag for any non-dangerous game OVER 300# body mass.

Dangerous Game:

Light: Model 70 in .338 WinMag.
Medium: Ruger 77 magnum in .375 H&H
Heavy: tough
with good backup: .416 Rigby (Ruger 77 Magnum)
backup and REALLY large game: Ruger 77 in .458 Lott.

No way no how:
.460 Weatherby, .416 Weatherby, .458 Win Mag.:p

-Ray

[postoak]

How do you old hands feel about taking a stainless rifle to Africa for plains game? Will it be a big factory in animals spotting you?

[postoak]

Factory = factor

[GF.]

They also emphasis the use of premium bullets to assure penetration. But .30-06 capacity cartridges have enough oomph in their opinion -- no need for magnums.

Can we just plaster that across the top of every thread on HA? :D

OK, never gave this a serious thought before, but I'll play...

1 rifle - .30-06, cuz it's a classic, even though a .280 might make better sense.

2 rifles - a 6.5 Swede and a 8mm Mauser, both loaded to current Euro spec. My American version of this set up would be a .257 Bob and a .35 Whelen (sticking with rounds that have a little history to 'em, just for fun).

3 rifles - as above, but add a .62 roundball ML (assuming that would be legal). I suppose if it had to be a cartridge shooter, it could be the same in a double, still launching an RB but out of a brass 20 ga. shell ;)

Really, I could get by more than handily with what I've got - the 7-08, the .45/70 and yes, even the .54, were it allowed.... Just need to carry a couple different loads for the .45/70 is all...

[300hnh]

Or rather batteries, one set for plains game only:

1 rifle: 300 H&H Win model 70

2 rifle: 7x57 Mauser. Ruger made nice ones in the model 1 and the 77. The 7X57 can be hand loaded to some pretty powerful authority.

3 rifle: 270 Win or a 30-06
The 35 Whelen might be nice to take long too.

A second set for dangerous game only:

1 rifle: 357 H&H

2 rifle: maybe a 458 Win Mag.

Could you hunt everything in Africa with just a .375 H&H?
Yes you could do it all with the 375 H&H. A lot of people go to Africa every year with only the 357 H&H and have a great time.

[Mod 12]

.25/06

.300 Winchester Magnum

.375 H&H or 9.3 x 63

.404 Jeffery

I'd like to do it all with a 9.3 and doubt I'd hunt anything bigger than buffalo.

Bwana B., I want to shoot your .300 H&H next time. :D

[Hi Ball]

Bwana 416......I have seen over the years, several hunters use the .270 Winchester in Africa. Most of them did not fare so well in putting game down on the ground as one might think about doing so with a Texas whitetail.

On my hunts the .338 win mag has done the job and right quick about putting small or large animals down for the count. The only time I ever saw a small caliber do what was expected of it, was on a small baboon and couple of brothers who were culling springbok with head shots from a .223 caliber.

[Bwana416]

Some fast steppers like the .264 WinMag or 7mm. magnums? Weatherby's catalog used to be stuffed with dozens of shots of African plains game put down with single shots at 300+ yards with the .270, 7mm and .300 Wby magnums.

-Ray

[Indy]

I can't see any reason to take three rifles. I need (a) a heavy rifle for large dangerous game and (b) a plains game rifle. It's hard to use the heavy rifle for plains game due to trajectory and the inability of most people to shoot it accurately enough.

For the heavy, I'll take a .458. Winchester Magnum or Lott--it does not matter. I took a Winchester because that's what I own.

For plains game, I think anything more than .30 caliber just adds recoil, making hits less likely. African herbivores are no tougher than those in North America of the same weight. A 180 grain Nosler Partition works just fine. I shoot a .300 Weatherby because I can sight it in and forget hold over.

My first PH was disappointed I had brought the Weatherby. He prefers to load 180 grain 30-06 bullets down to 2400, claiming that shots in the bushveldt were seldom more than 75 yards and the Weatherby bullets would break up at such short ranges. After eight one-shot kills--three of which were at ranges past 200 yards--he changed his mind a little.

If I could only take one rifle, it would be a .375. But why? Then I'd have something that was less than optimum for everything, though adequate. I'm not sure it would be very much better, if any, on dangerous game than the .300 with proper bullets but .375 (or 9.3) is usually the smallest legal caliber.

Why take one rifle? Logistics of airlines and weight allowances make it almost as easy to take two. Taking three is a hassle.

I thought about this a lot during six days of tracking buffalo. I decided the best rifle for hunting buffalo would be a light 9.3x62. But after thooting a buffalo, I decided the best rifle for shooting one would be a .500 Nitro Express.

[Hi Ball]

INDY, you are so right about the 3 rifle hassel!!! YEP, 2 rifles is all you need provided you select the proper two calibers in the first place. Now for me, it was a no brainer using a .338 Win mag with either 210 Nosler Partitions or 250 Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. The .416 Remington had those 400 grain Swift A Frames and Woodleigh solids, both in model 70 Winchester rifles.;) :D

The thread asked for 3 calibers and I try to oblige folks all the time but I have never taken 3 rifles to the Dark Continent, only on my elk and mule deer hunts and that is a horse of a different color.:)

[Indy]

How do you old hands feel about taking a stainless rifle to Africa for plains game? Will it be a big factory in animals spotting you?

I took my .300 Wby with dull black plastic stock and stainless barrel to Africa. The action is also dull black as is the scope. I originally bought this rifle for Alaska, where it rains a lot. In Africa, a couple of animals were spooked as I was getting into position. Did they see me or a flash from the rifle? Who knows? We also spooked a buffalo when I was carrying a non-stainless rifle. I really don't think the stainless barrel is a problem.

[President Obanana]

1. 458 Lott with 500 grain RN going 2200 fps. QD scope mounts.

2. extra ammo for the Lott with 400 grain Woodleigh pointed bullets.

[Bwana416]

for an experienced shooter who PRACTICES with it, one rifle does not a battery make.


-Ray

[rimrock]

well I like a rifle with some serious THUMP on impact

one set for plains game only:

1 rifle:30/06 win little stuff 70lbs-200 lbs

2 rifle:340wby bigger stuff 200 lbs and up

3 rifle:257 roberts.. tiny stuff 70 lbs or less

A second set for dangerous game only:

1 rifle:458 LOTT (bigger stuff, out past 80 yards)

2 rifle:378 WBY thin skinned (CATS) and bigger stuff, only if the 458 lotts or the 505 gibbs not at hand

3 rifle:505 gibbs bigger stuff up close

[postoak]

Congratulations, rimrock! You are the only poster who actually posted an answer that followed my original guidelines. :cool:
And those are good, thoughtful, choices, too.

[Hi Ball]

Gentlemen, just so you know for your future hunts! Stainless is easier to see for animals, as it gives off a sheen better than a regular blue barrel. I always use "FLAT BLACK" spray paint on any stainless rifle I might be carrying on a big game hunt. It keeps the stainless from Rusting (yes, they rust too) and it hides movement of the rifle barrel far better, so animals can't pick up the movement near as easy. The paint will clean off with using mineral spirits or some other product without damaging the stainless finish.;):)

[Bushman]

Hi Ball, all my serious rifles are camo painted, barrel, stock, action and scope. I put a very nice 10 point into launch mode by the reflection on my then new RKW (read high gloss) Reminton finish on a M700. It is just one more thing that I can control to help swing the odds in my favor. I once watched a hunter walk under my tree and down a trail with a rifle over his shoulder on a sunny day. He might as well have had a mirror from the glint and flashes that were coming off that barrel.

[Herne]

Plains game up to 750 lbs. 270 Win. works fine - got the tee shirt. All you have to do is hit him in the right place, and one shot is plenty.

Plains game up to a bit bigger. 270 Win. Works fine so our PH used one on his culls, (or a 308 or an 06) No personal experience, but I am assured that all you have to do is......

DG -

Dad always used a 475 Churchill, side by side sidelock ejector. Wasn't his only gun, but it was the one he used most. Shot a lot of elephant with them (pair looted in Abyssinia during the war). Not a great deal else, because he wanted the ivory, and he was shooting for himself. Not a good round if you get it wrong, but he assured me that one round is plenty if you could keep your nerve and put it.....

And he used to shoot a lot. And lots of leopard of course in those non pc days for the skins - 12 bore Beretta shotgun.

Would I take a stainless gun anywhere. No. Blued steel only and oiled wood. But only a fool carries his rifle barrel up. Barrel down, muzzle taped. Keeps barrel clean and don't flash, minimises movement in the animals sightline.

[Hi Ball]

Herne my good fellow!......... I will admit that the .270 Winchester caliber has a special place in my hunting heart (shooting mule deer & whitetails) but I know Bloody Damn well, I will not be taking one to the Dark Continent to hunt 750 pound critters.......Geez Mate!

I hit a bluewildebeast with a solid shot to the front shoulder, using a model 70 Winchester mag in a .338 Win mag caliber and 225 grain TBBC bullet. It knocked him over on his back at 70 yards, all 4 feet going into the air. I tuned to say something to my PH and by the time I turned back around, that animal was up and running full tilt. It went some 80 yards before it's nose plowed up the dirt. One example of how tuff those African animals really are to bring down.

I saw several examples of hunters using a .270 Winchester on Gemsbok, Kudu and Wart Hog. The only animal that was put down without a big tracking job was the Wart Hog. All animals were hit with shots to the lung area behind the front shoulder.

I do not know what type of bullets these fellows were using but they had a tuff time in bringing in the critters period. I think a .270 is excellent on Babboon's, Impala but not for any animals over 300 pounds. I am not by myself on this conclusion either........."Any Shot You Want" Art Alphin has this documented too!

I don't like tracking animals in the bush, waste of time as far as I see things. I would much rather be out stalking another animal instead. I use a .416 Rem mag on Kudu and anything else over 500 pounds, after my experience with the running wildebeast. One shot in the front shoulder on a broadside presentation and it drop in their tracks. I used 350 grain Swift A Frames to do my bidding! NO lost animals either Mate!!! Bigger is Always Better, unless your P-dog shooting critters.:D :D :D You just ask any "red blooded Irishman" lol

[Herne]

I dunno what they did Hi Ball. Perhaps they just didn't hit them right. All of mine (I didn't go for a kudu), but I took a wildebeeste, a gemsbok, a red hartebeeste, - then they got smaller - a couple of springbok, an impala and a blesbok.

I round apiece, Hornady Interlock 270/150, and 52 g of H4350. All were beyond 300 - in and out in front of the 10th rib. They all fell over pretty quickly.

Dad used to shoot a lot of his plains game with a Parker Hale converted .303. I think it was called a Safari. Whether Tanganyika wildebeeste are bigger or smaller than those in RSA I don't know, but a .303 knocked them over quick enough. Topi, which are a hartebeeste of sorts was his favourite to shoot -good eating.

They aren't that hard to bring down - all you have to do is hit them in the right place. I was bet $10 that I couldn't get my wildebeeste with one round from a 270. :) By one of the Americans there and an ex-client of mine. Made for a good evenings pleasant drinking for all of us. Mind you, it wasn't the size of the bet that was important, more that there was one at all.

Incidentally Trev my hunting partner shot his with a 300WM and a Partition which blew up. Had a hell of a chase to find it, on its feet and still walking fairly slowly. Then took a second round. should have been a chest shot, but failed to penetrate. His Partition in a Hartebeeste was also recovered, and in the gemsbok. But the Interlock just kept on motoring...(not in the wildebeeste, but in all the others. If it hadn't hit a rib on the way in, it would have exited, because it was under the skin on the far side.)

[Hi Ball]

Herne brings back memories of my old Parker Hale in a .300 win mag! I ended up giving it to one of my relatives years ago. He still has the old gun, says its the best game getter he ever owned. He only has about 6 rifles and 3 of those are lever action, 2 Marlins in a 30-30 and .35 cal and 1 Winchester .375 cal. Well, I am hooked on African hunting alright but I will take my little .416 Remmy and .475 mag on my next trip for Buff & Sable, Lion is just getting to bloody expensive for my tastes buds. Cheer's Mate!~;) :) :D

[Indy]

As they say, it's not the arrow. It's the Indian.

I think you can kill any African plains game as dead with a 180 grain bullet as you can with anything, and with one shot. Same for elk. Maybe not for giraffe and maybe not for Texas heart shots at elk in the brush. With everything else? Easily.

[Hi Ball]

INDY.......lets not forget about those hippos shall we! Those buggers soak up lead like a sponge does water. I sure want something in my hands besides a trusty 30-06 deer rifle.

I hear tell if you use that Texas Heart shot on a Hippo, it will just turn right back around and use your rifle as a tooth pick.:eek: :D :D :D

So's it can clean out the extra debris hanging on your beltline, that's after it chumps you up a bit my good man.

[Chuck S]

Set of three for Plains game:
30-06
35 Whelen
375 H&H

For Dangerous:

416 Rigby
458 Win Mg
460 Weatherby

Carry just one for all: 375 H&H

Carrying just two: 375 H&H and the 460 Weatherby

[Hi Ball]

Chuck S. --------I can't argue with the .375H&H nor that Weatherby .460!;)

[Pumba]

This is interesting:

Plains Game

1) 300 Woverine, with some of the original 200 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claws

Dangerous Game

1) 470 Wolveine, with some of the original 540 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claws and 540 grains Sledgehammer solids

[Hi Ball]

Please enlighten me as to what a .470-Wolvein is please! :confused:

[Pumba]

Please enlighten me as to what a .470-Wolvein is please! :confused:

A 470 Wolverine is an improved 404 Jeffrey case, with 540 Trophy-Bonded bullets that Jack Carter made for me in 1990.

It fires these 540 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2,350 fps through a 22-inch Kreiger barrel.

The rifle is a Dakota action that was modified and built by D'Arcy Echols, with a McMillan fiberglass stock.

I took it to Africa for the first time in October of 1991. I hunted Cape Buffalo in the Moiawasi (sp) area of Tanzania.

[postoak]

I assume you meant it is based on the .404 necked up to .470, and improved. (?)

[Pumba]

I assume you meant it is based on the .404 necked up to .470, and improved. (?)

No, I meant to type improved.

The 470 Wolverine is one of a family of cartridges designed in the late '80s. The family includes:

264 Wolverine - 140 grain bullet at 3,350 fps

300 Wolverine - 200 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 3,060 fps

375 Wolverine - 335 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 2,650 fps

396 Wolverine - 375 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 2,500 fps

470 Wolverine - 540 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 2,350 fps

With the exception of the 264 Wolverine, they all are based on the same improved 404 Jeffrey case. They all have the same distance from the rim to the shoulder. The same body diameter at the shoulder. The same 30 degree shoulder angle.

[Indy]

INDY.......lets not forget about those hippos shall we! Those buggers soak up lead like a sponge does water. I sure want something in my hands besides a trusty 30-06 deer rifle.

I hear tell if you use that Texas Heart shot on a Hippo, it will just turn right back around and use your rifle as a tooth pick.:eek: :D :D :D

So's it can clean out the extra debris hanging on your beltline, that's after it chumps you up a bit my good man.

I didn't think a hippo was plains game.

The only one I ever shot was brained dead with one 180 grain .30 cal. Nosler Partition. This was after I wounded it with a .458, causing it to jump in thewater, and then shot 8 more .458s at it while it swam in a circle roaring about 50 yards away. I ran out of .458 ammo so went to the truck for the "light" rifle.

[postoak]

I don't think it wise to shoot ANY dangerous game with a Texas heart shot, regardless of caliber. However, a .30-06 with a 220 grain FMJ bullet has plenty of penetration ability.

[Indy]

No, I meant to type improved.

The 470 Wolverine is one of a family of cartridges designed in the late '80s. The family includes:

264 Wolverine - 140 grain bullet at 3,350 fps

300 Wolverine - 200 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 3,060 fps

375 Wolverine - 335 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 2,650 fps

396 Wolverine - 375 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 2,500 fps

470 Wolverine - 540 grain Trophy-Bonded Bear Claw at 2,350 fps

With the exception of the 264 Wolverine, they all are based on the same improved 404 Jeffrey case. They all have the same distance from the rim to the shoulder. The same body diameter at the shoulder. The same 30 degree shoulder angle.



Why fool around with odd wildcats which don't offer any better performance than more common rounds? Especially the .396, if that's a true diameter.

OK, I've said you don't need three guns in Africa but if I had to select three, here they are:

1. .300 Weatherby Ultralightweight by Weatherby for everything from dik-dik through giraffe, including crocodile, leopard, and lion from blinds. A possible alternate would be a 9.3x62 because you can shoot buffalo with it legally.

2. 450-400 3" Heym double for buffalo, elephant, and any follow up on lion or leopard. A .458WM bolt rifle would be a good alternate choice. Less expensive and a bit more powerful.

3. A good double barelled shotgun for bird shooting.

[DUGABOY1]

Or rather batteries, one set for plains game only:

1 rifle:

2 rifle:

3 rifle:

A second set for dangerous game only:

1 rifle:

2 rifle:

3 rifle:

(or more if you think it a good idea)

Could you hunt everything in Africa with just a .375 H&H?

This being my first post here because I had to re-regester because the website has changed since the last time I was here!

Plains game only:

#1 375 H&H

#2 375H&H

#3 375H&H

Dangerous game only:

#1 400 or larger double rifle

#2 400 or larger double rifle

#3 400 or larger double rifle

Of course there are many good rifles and calibers for all the animals listed! However when hunting in areas where dangerous game may be stumbled onto at any moment, I want something that will take care of the business at hand. SO, when hunting in Africa, or certain parts of Alaska, I hunt with nothing less than 9.3X74R, in a double rifle or 9.3X62 in a CRF bolt rifle!

.................................................. ......................Mac!

[DUGABOY1]

I don't think it wise to shoot ANY dangerous game with a Texas heart shot, regardless of caliber. However, a .30-06 with a 220 grain FMJ bullet has plenty of penetration ability.

postoak, the so-called Texas heart shot is many times called for in Africa, especially on cape buffalo, and elephant. However this is never the first shot on any large game.

When a cape buffalo is tapped and he turns to head for the thorn or high grass, you poke as many bullets up the old pooper as you can before he is out of sight. A rifle that is adiquate for cape buffalo, with a proper bullet will reach the vitals from the rear. In addtion to that it is prudent to try to break the pelvic girtle, or hip with one of those shots as well. With as many as you can get into him before you have to go into the grass with him it sometimes helps to slow down a charge if he tries one, giveing you a little more time to sort him out, and if he is dead in the weeds, the extra holes gives more blood to follow him with.

.................................................M ac

[Hi Ball]

Well Daggaboy-1, I like to keep the gunsmith working, so I opted for having a new "stopper rifle" made up and hope to get it sometime late spring or early summer. It uses 460 Weatherby brass blown out to a .550 caliber, using a CZ - 550 magnum action. It will shoot a 700 or 800 grain bullet to the tune of 2400 or 2300 fps respectively. The Taylor K.O. scale gives it a 130 plus and energy at the muzzle will reach over 8,400 pounds with a 24 inch barrel. A heavy Pac-Nor barrel with 2 recoil lugs, fitted to the CZ action with a nice piece of walnut for looks but a laminated hardwood stock (wildcherry, ash, oak and hickory) will replace the walnut come hunting time.