Qs on fletchings (anybody home? ;) ) [Archive]

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GF.

08-25-2009, 05:49 PM

Mighty quiet around here lately.... :confused:

Is everybody out shooting and tuning, or are ya just too busy counting down the minutes to the opener? :cool:

But out of curiosity.... (and in case any newbies are lurking with questions....)

1) Feathers or Vanes? And if you like feathers, do you like Gateways or True-Flights? If you like vanes, which ones do you prefer?

2) Straight, Helical or Off-set? (and if offset, how many degrees?)

3) Size & shape?

More specifically....

Personally, I prefer shield cuts to parabolics (just 'cuz they're purty :D ), but does anybody think that they're louder, quieter, faster, slower, more stabilizing or less stabilizing than parabolics?

I suppose the very things that help an arrow stabilize a broadhead probably slow it down and make it noisier.... and I am pretty sure that my 5" helical shields are faster and quieter than a 5" helical, hi-profile banana (honest! :D ) but I don't think I've ever shot parabolics side-by-side with shields.

The bow is shooting well enough with the 4" parabolic duravanes that I don't want to do anything that'll mess widdit too much, but I was actually hoping to fletch up my next set w/ 4" shields in my usual color scheme.

Twanger

08-25-2009, 11:27 PM

I've tried quick spins, blazers, and other fletchings but nothing seems to stabilize as well as 5 inch round cut feathers with as much offset as can be put on the shaft. Helical shot worse. Much worse.

ncboman

08-26-2009, 12:07 AM

Shields are very noisy out of a compound, otherwise I'd have them.

4" parabolic feathers give me what I want and are fast/easy to fletch as well.

GF.

08-26-2009, 10:25 AM

So the short answer is 4" parabolic feathers with 3 or 4 degrees offset?

Hmmm.... Gateway or Trueflight, I wonder....

Looks like this sale is going to go to the shop that I can get on the phone and which will promise me my colors :cool:

GF.

08-26-2009, 10:36 AM

Hmmmm... Just did a double-take and noticed that Twang said FIVE inchers... Anybody think that's overkill?

I'm planning to shoot the Stinger 100 4-blade, so the fixed blades might be a good reason to go bigger... Of course everybody who sells these swears they'll never, ever plane no matter how fast your bow is... at least not until they come out with a new version of it, which will cause all of the existing heads out there to suddenly start sailing like a barn door in a tornado.... :rolleyes:

LampLighter

08-26-2009, 01:29 PM

I have been shooting Magnus Stinger 4 blades for 3 years now. I use Gateway Parabolic 5 inch with boo koo right helical. Absolutely no problem at all.
I use the Jo-Jan Monofletcher.

Hint on sharpening them: take the little screw out. drag each edge litely on a carbon flatbar like those made by Spyderco. Use water, not oil. They will get so sharp they'll cut your retina just from looking at them. :D

Welcome to the Stinger family. The owner hangs out on Bowsite.com. Talk about a warranty.

GF.

08-26-2009, 01:45 PM

5" w/ lots of helical? At that rate, I can't imagine that you could possibly get them to plane!

Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you, but sooner or later the flu-flu factor is gonna have to kick in...

I don't know if anybody has made a real study of the velocity differentials between the various fletching types as you get into the 40 and 50 yard ranges. Wouldn't matter for normal hunting shots, of course, but to Twanger's point elsewhere, if you found yourself throwing a #5-pin 'chaser' after a wounded animal, it'd be nice to have a usable trajectory...

LampLighter

08-26-2009, 02:31 PM

Around here, we don't worry about that micro-look at arrow happenings. We get them flying right, and put the time in the woods. That detailed examination is good to pass time in the long, hot summer but it is fast approaching time to get the spider webs out the camp and start slipping around seeing what's going on.

GF.

08-26-2009, 03:01 PM

You're forgetting that analyzing things to death is one of my favorite things to do!

OK, so maybe not and I just can't help myself, but until Overanalyzers Anonymous starts up a local chapter, I'm pretty well stuck living with myself 'as-is' :D

Just found that Bowhunters Supply sells my brand & model of shaft with the 5" helical Gateways... by the half-dozen, anyway. Bad news is that they may not be able to save me any money on a full dozen, but at least they'll guarantee the nock & color combos and ship 'em for a buck...

LampLighter

08-26-2009, 06:18 PM

A bag of feathers are not cheap either. The barred ones I use are approx. $27.00 .

LampLighter

08-26-2009, 09:13 PM

I've posted this deer before. He's from 07. A Magnus Stinger did a number on him. I could have tracked him on my bicycle in 21st gear.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/P1020003.jpg

I used to post alot on Bowsite, but the folks there are very naive and I got bored. I had to dumb down. The owner of Magnus though, he is a rare breed. Absolute good dude and I respect him 101%. As much as I fight, fuss, whatever here, I am just putting on a defense front. The folks here are the best. I seem to especially respect Alt.

GF.

08-27-2009, 01:41 PM

I had no idea it could get complicated ordering a dozen arrows!

Thumbs up or down (or no real opinion) on the following:

1) 'Hand-squaring' of shafts after they're cut to length. I've only seen one place offer this (fo' a fee!). Something like $5/doz. Q: does everybody else do this and just not talk about it because they all do it anyway, or is this a valuable QA step and worth $.50/shaft?

2) 'Vi-brake' nocks and/or inserts. Looks like Beman has these as standard on all but their cheapest hunting shafts, and of course they claim to cut your groups in about half. But've never seen anybody here mentin them before.... They run about an extra buck a shaft, and that includes a tighter straightness tolerance on the shafts.

3) Unspecified-offset fletching: if they don't tell you how many degrees, do you keep on looking, or just get 5" feathers and figure that whatever they're using ought to be fine?

LampLighter

08-27-2009, 03:48 PM

I shoot Aluminum. I forgot to point that out. With Aluminum, the saw/table bed is already squared, so the cut is square.

Vi brake whatever, seems to apply to carbon arrows. Not me.

Offset means they are using a Straight clamp, and turning the little Vee rest on the jig.

Clamps come 3 ways :

Straight, Left helical, and right helical. For true helical, you need one of the helical clamps. This corresponds to a turkey's wings. The left wing & the right wing.

GF.

08-27-2009, 04:47 PM

I know what offset is, I just can't always tell how much of it a given supplier is planning to put on 'em!

I'e always shot helicals with the tradbows, but Twang mentioned that he'd had bad results with them, so am thinking more along the lines of NC's straight offsets... I think he uses 3 degrees with his 4" parabolics, but some suppliers state 1 degree, others 4, others are tight-lipped about what you get and some will let you specify what you want.

So, depending on the size of the feather you want, you might get by with less offset, and likewise, if a supplier uses more offset, you can probably do fine with less feather & less drag... The guy I paid to tune up my bow last spring was pretty vehement about how he was so good at it that 4" vanes are all I'll ever need, but a little more feather does make it easier to track the arrow into the target, too.... One thing about the recurve is that I could always see the shaft sticking out as the deer ran off, but I'm not so sure that's a great thing with carbons....

Hand-squaring sounds like it's just a QA step - one would like to think that a high-speed cut-off saw designed for arrows would be built pretty much to square or wold have been fixed by the folks using it. It could get pretty expensive taking back custom-length arrows were cut off o' plumb.

And FWIW, I think the Vi-brake would be equally applicable (and perhaps even more valuable) for alumalogs, but they may not make them on account of low demand. Basically, it's a wee little limbsaver that rides inside the shaft and is supposed to damp out vibration in the shaft so that your arrow straightens up quicker and the broadhead has less opportunity to cause any planing. Carbons seem to settle a lot quicker than aluminum in the first place, though, so who knows what real difference it would make. On the other hand, if it made the bow a hair quieter, the only down-side is the price difference and maybe a few inches per second due to the very slight additional weight...:rolleyes:

ncboman

08-28-2009, 10:37 PM

I doan go by degrees of offset at all. Shooting a tmhunter rest mostly, I must have clean passage between the fletches so I fletch with all the offset I can get and still have clean prong passage without contact.

When initially setting up a fletcher, I usually have to trash a feather or two before I get things to my liking.

Also, fletching shafts of a different diameter require setting up the fletching jig all over again. If I did much of that I'd have a seperate jig for each shaft size.

GF.

08-28-2009, 10:49 PM

Well I went ahead and ordered my new arrahs, so we'll see what happens... With the dropaway, I'm probably OK for clearance, and the 5-inchers oughtta make 'em spin pretty hard whether there's 1 degree or Twanger's 'as much as will fit'...

Just hope they're less disappointing than the Limbsavers:p

Good news is that I got to spec my 2 yellers ana poiple, even though the cock feathers will be TreBark instead o' barred. Definitely time for a jig, but I suppose a dozen oughtta get me through 'tiil Santy Claus comes around...

LampLighter

08-29-2009, 01:34 AM

Check out the Jo-Jan Monofletcher. The best is Bitzenburger, but they are too high in cost. The Jo Jan works just fine. Get a can of denatured alcohol to de-oil the surfaces.

ncboman

08-29-2009, 08:01 AM

I just use a BPE fletching jig. Works fine for me.

some popular fletching jigs (http://www.archerywarehouse.com/fletchingtools.htm)

My arras doan have oil on em so I doan do the alcohol thing. :D

LampLighter

08-31-2009, 09:48 PM

My arras doan have oil on em so I doan do the alcohol thing. :D

Fingerprints consist of fatty deposits ( body oil). This is how super glue was accidently discovered as a means of visualizing latent fingerprints. You will likely transfer some fatty deposits to the surface where the fletch glue is applied.

ncboman

08-31-2009, 10:09 PM

Fingerprints consist of fatty deposits ( body oil). This is how super glue was accidently discovered as a means of visualizing latent fingerprints. You will likely transfer some fatty deposits to the surface where the fletch glue is applied.

nat likely. :D

I lightly draw scrape that area with my knife blade at 90' and use fletching tape so I doan touch it at all. :)

Fletching tape and feathers were made for each other. Instant bond. Set the clamp and take the clamp off; fletched, just like that. No waiting. Easy cleanup when one get stripped too. ... and pssst, tape is 5 times cheaper than glue, at least. ;)

GF.

09-01-2009, 10:53 AM

I like the sound o' that BPE 'Pro' model with the different sizes of notches for different sizes of arrows... Does the basic model have that, too, or did they just use the same photo twice?

2 other Qs....Since I'd really like to be able to put helical fletchings on big, fat ol' wooden arrahs for the recurves as well as the straight offset on the skinny carbons...

1) Does the Jo-Jan do anything like that shaft diameter adjustment (and/or is that really all that important?)

2) Will the BPE do helical?

GF.

09-01-2009, 12:22 PM

Anybody know the diameter of the Beman ICS shafts? I need target points...

LampLighter

09-02-2009, 08:41 AM

The Jo Jan does perfect helical IF you by the helical clamp.

As with any jig, clamps come right wing, left wing, and straight. The wing is the helical. It corresponds to a turkey's left & right wings.

The Jo Jan has a vee notch that accepts any arrow.

dave-t.

09-02-2009, 10:16 AM

GF.

09-02-2009, 10:18 AM

Accepts any arrow, but doesn't quite center 'any' arrow.

I'm sure it's 'perfect' for some diameter out there, but never having fletched an arrow, I don't know if having the arrow ever-so-slightly out of parallel to the clamp actually matters or not.

I'm thinkin' that shooting 9/32s carbons out of the compound and 11/32s woodies out of the recurves would leave me pretty close to the diameter that Jo-Jan built that thing around... And of course, shooting the tapered carbons shafts, as I do on the recurve right now.... I suppose all bets are off anyway :D

So at that rate, I guess I'd either buy the more basic BPE (or something a whole lot like it) and save the cash, or I'd go with the Jo-Jan just to get the helical clamp if the BPE-types don't offer one.

:confused:

GF.

09-02-2009, 10:27 AM

I have a buddy that is a serious archer, and he is starting to believe that a left helical or left off-set is a more accurate way to go than fletched for right spin.

Ah, yes, inspector, but is he right or left handed; which way is the wind blowing; and is he in the northern or southern hemisphere? :D

See if you can get him to come by and post his rationale.... Maybe Twang has another view, but unless you were using a right-hand offset 'spinner' broadhead and a left-offset fletching, or you used the wrong wing for the clamp, I can't imagine any scenario under which it could possibly make a detectable difference, even out of the most sophisticated shooting machine.

:confused:

On the other hand... You did say that 'he is starting to believe'.... In a sport that's got as large a mental component as shooting, if he really believes it, it will be True.

For him.

For at least two weeks.

:D

dave-t.

09-02-2009, 10:54 AM

He's a spot shooter, and send his brand new bow off to be restringed and worked over, etc. etc., and for his summer shooting leagues, he shot one night with right spin and one league with left. He says he never had a Robin hood on the right fletched, but had quite a few fletched left. His bow guru told him to try it as he had been noticing the same thing.

I'm not refletching my arrows, but it was something I found interesting. Even if it is just a "mental thing".

ncboman

09-02-2009, 12:28 PM

ncboman

09-02-2009, 12:38 PM

I have a buddy that is a serious archer, and he is starting to believe that a left helical or left off-set is a more accurate way to go than fletched for right spin.

But, he's way over my head.:rolleyes:

probably over my head too but I could agree with him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Archery/Israel6-point118.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/AAAA0009.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/AAAA0002.jpg

I gotta take some better pics. :mad:

LampLighter

09-02-2009, 01:15 PM

Accepts any arrow, but doesn't quite center 'any' arrow.

I think it is a matter of WHO made the recommendation to you. If nc would have told you the Jo Jan was king of the hill- the best, you'd likely be looking for the best price on a Jo Jan. The ol " highlight of the party" phenomenom again. Good luck dude.

GF.

09-02-2009, 01:36 PM

Not at all....

I've seen the Jo-Jan 6-fletcher in just about every archery shop I've walked into for the past 25 or 30 years. If it's what all the pro shops seem to use, then I really doubt there's anything wrong with it, and I'd be happy to own one. My main concern is just being able to fletch offset for the wheelbow and helical for the 'curves, but keeping it as foolproof and as precise as possible are definitely among the considerations. And I do intend to buy a jig only once.

But if the BPE is a perfectly satisfactory solution and costs a good chunk less, then.... what's not to like?

:confused:

I don't think your hide's as thick as you keep saying it is....:rolleyes:

GF.

09-02-2009, 01:43 PM

Does your Jo-Jan do anything more than the 3-fletch or 4-fletch?

Can't forget the flu-flus! :cool:

ncboman

09-02-2009, 10:16 PM

You wouldn't look at whatever that is you bought for 170 against a top BowTech , Matthews, or Hoyt.

:D

The Jo Jan may be the best fletcher made and if I had 6 doz or so arrows to fletch with glue on a regular basis I might / probably would have one.

... but with fletch tape I can fletch arrows faster with the BPE. I know that much. :)

How much is a Jo Jan goin for these days? :rolleyes:

GF.

09-03-2009, 09:27 AM

Jo-Jan lists them at $49 for the mono-fletcher and $20/clamp.

Cheapest I've seen for the mono-fletcher is around $35, with extra clamps in the $12-$15 range. You can pay a helluvalot more, though, if you don't look around a bit. Some outfits are even selling them over list :eek: Question is, are the low-priced sellers going to ruin you on shipping?

A multi-fletch is a lot better deal, you might say, since they're running between $80 and $115 or so. But you'd better like that one clamp.....:D

Only down-side I really see on the JJ is the lack of a six-feather option, but I kinda wonder if you couldn't fake it with the 3 by running it through twice... :confused: