Sudden Impact Buck Dies...

[Twanger]

This was a huge 490" non-typical buck, and only 3 years old.

http://farmingforwildlife.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=131&Itemid=71

[Altjaeger]

Now that buck is just plain freakish and unattractive.

[venado]

Were he to walk out in front of me where I hunt he would be the prettiest dead deer you ever saw Altjaeger...!:D

[Bushman]

That is some kind of antler growth in three years and kind of unbelievable from where I sit. What is even more astounding to me is what that buck looked like as a one year old they say. Actually I liked his antlers more at one and two than that mess he grew at three. That sway belly line at two in the profile photo sure makes me think he is older than two in that picture.

[My buddy]

geez, whats the big deal?....it's not like he was 500":eek:

[GF.]

"Our thoughts go out to....."

Gimme a freakin' break! I'll bet they're cryin' all the way home from the bank, just thinking about all the dollars they won't be making from selling that dude off one squirt at a time.

I guess there's just something about breeding animals selectively so that people will be willing to pay more money for the chance to kill them that just rubs me the wrong way.... It's like buying the state fair grand champion steer and having its head mounted. So you spent the money. BFD.

[Sabre]

"Our thoughts go out to....."

Gimme a freakin' break! I'll bet they're cryin' all the way home from the bank, just thinking about all the dollars they won't be making from selling that dude off one squirt at a time.

I guess there's just something about breeding animals selectively so that people will be willing to pay more money for the chance to kill them that just rubs me the wrong way.... It's like buying the state fair grand champion steer and having its head mounted. So you spent the money. BFD.

:D:D My thoughts likewise:D:D

[venado]

I guess this is another of those "you've got to be openminded" to understand moments, because I have no problem with raising and breeding big deer or cattle. The market in a capitalist system determines if it is a profitable or a hobby venture. (The IRS takes a dim view of the "hobby" aspect if you are trying to write off expenses.) Where I live, making money off of cattle and deer is a way of life for a majority of ranchers and in many cases the deer make it possible for a family to keep a ranch and make a living.

That deer is something that tells everyone what is possible when a whitetail has everything going for it, food, genes and all favorable conditions. I don't see it as a huntable animal nor compare it to a wild animal, however if someone wants to raise captive animals and make a dollar in the process, I'll sure not be critical of their effort.

My imagination can picture what that 3 yo 400 inch buck might have achieved had he survived to a 6 yo which normally is considered fully mature. That owner has lost a lot of potential income with that deer's death. I feel sorry for him just as I would any other person that has a business loss through no fault of his own. Unfortunately the loss of bucks in these breeding facilities is always pretty high and is simply part of the profit/loss scenario.

[Bill Gunn]

I have no problem with raising and breeding big deer or cattle.

How About a BIG 'Ol Texas Kiss....

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2250/777751/22482050/373386178.jpg

:D :D :D

[Altjaeger]

How About a BIG 'Ol Texas Kiss....

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2250/777751/22482050/373386178.jpg

:D :D :D

ROFL. Pucker up Bill, she wants you!:D:D:D

[Altjaeger]

Like you Venado I have no problem with the capitolistic system working but I want no part personally in that buck or participating in it myself. I certainly think the B&C makes the right call in excluding them.

Over time I am coming to see hunting as analogous to automotive races with its many classes. Some love Formula A and others NASCAR.

I am not going to call hunting such bucks unsporting in square mile plus fenced enclosures, but I will not include a bred up buck in the same class as free ranging, but controlled by harvest. I'll leave that buck's prodigy to those that admire such animals.

[Bill Gunn]

ROFL. Pucker up Bill, she wants you!:D:D:D

We seen a lot of HUGE cattle in Texas...
These Watusi Cattle were the size of rhino's !!

I seen where people were selling some off because of the drought...

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2250/777751/22482050/373386185.jpg

[venado]

Bill, I don't know if I could deal with ol' sweet lips and that is one big cow.:D I know that they are African animals though I have never seen one. Due to the Texas climate, many of the African animals find a great home here so I suppose the Anatoles are sneaking around somewhere close and with my superman like vision I've just missed them.:rolleyes:

[Sabre]

I guess this is another of those "you've got to be openminded" to understand moments, because I have no problem with raising and breeding big deer or cattle. The market in a capitalist system determines if it is a profitable or a hobby venture. The sad thing is that there is a profitable market in the first place. The "sports" who are willing to pay big money to kill these farm raised bucks should be shunned and drummed out of the sport by legitimate hunters.

[southtexas]

How would you go about writing a definition of "Legitimate hunter"?

[venado]

The "sports" who are willing to pay big money to kill these farm raised bucks should be shunned and drummed out of the sport by legitimate hunters.
ST, actually Sabre seems quite reasonable.:rolleyes: We legitimate fishermen could expand that thought and shun those that catch stocked fish and on and on. Why, the first thing you know we could elect Obama and get government control to replace our "shunning" and then all of the illegitimates could be controlled properly according to one misfit.

[Sabre]

How would you go about writing a definition of "Legitimate hunter"?

Perhaps someone who hunts WILD ANIMALS would be a good place to start ?;)

[Sabre]

ST, actually Sabre seems quite reasonable.:rolleyes: We legitimate fishermen could expand that thought and shun those that catch stocked fish and on and on. Why, the first thing you know we could elect Obama and get government control to replace our "shunning" and then all of the illegitimates could be controlled properly according to one misfit.

Don't be such a moron. The practice of "hunting" farm raised animals gives the whole hunting community a bad name in the eye's of the non-hunting public and aught to be shunned for the good of the sport.

[Altjaeger]

Don't be such a moron. The practice of "hunting" farm raised animals gives the whole hunting community a bad name in the eye's of the non-hunting public and aught to be shunned for the good of the sport.

Wow!!! That first sentence is a strong logical argument. :)

The use of stocked trout or farm raised catfish may be a solid comparison actually. Certainly there a strong similarity; Or Pennsylvania's use for years of pen raised pheasant.

[Sabre]

Wow!!! That first sentence is a strong logical argument. :)

The use of stocked trout or farm raised catfish may be a solid comparison actually. Certainly there a strong similarity; Or Pennsylvania's use for years of pen raised pheasant.

The non-hunting public generally don't give a damn about fish so that's an apples-oranges argument.

[Laturkeyhtr]

Boy it just takes sad news like this to jump up and appear on a QDM forum. Even though some of you are opposed to such things as deer farming, I wonder where the other naysayers are with their opinions.

Personally, I am not exactly sure where I stand on this issue. I don't have a problem with the capitalistic aspect of farming deer for profit. If you make a comparison to drugs, and as long as there is a profit from something that is illegal and there are folks willing to pay for them, the drug market will thrive.

Anyway, my concern is that the enterprising individual that decides to use the genetic infuence and introduce it into wild deer. Then tries to claim that i is in fact a wild deer. But then as long as there is money to be made, some folks will always do whatever it takes to make a buck.

There is no doubt that the Flees Family have learned something about genetics. My hats off to them for that and I share in their saddness loosing such an outstanding specimen.

[southtexas]

Perhaps someone who hunts WILD ANIMALS would be a good place to start ?;)

OK, we can probably agree on the definition of "animal". How would you define "wild"?

[Sabre]

OK, we can probably agree on the definition of "animal". How would you define "wild"?

Hmmmmmmmm, Ya think we could start with "one that WASN'T born and raised in captivity" ?:rolleyes:

[southtexas]

Hmmmmmmmm, Ya think we could start with "one that WASN'T born and raised in captivity" ?:rolleyes:

Ok, we're progressing....define captivity.

[Sabre]

Ok, we're progressing....define captivity.

Anything in a pen that can't come and go as it pleases is captive as far as I'm concerned. Ya know, You Texas boys have been bastardising the sport for so long you've completely lost sight of reality and ya'll make me sick. I wouldn't mind a few more "big game" mounts in my house and don't have the money to travel all over the map to get some "trophy's". Ya think it'd "count" if I just went to the farm auction and bought me some pigs and then turned 'em out into my pasture and blasted 'em ? How long would I hafta leave 'em out there before you'd consider them "wild boars" and a legitimate trophy ? This is important to me because pig food is expensive and if I have to feed them for too long before I can legitimately consider them "wild" I might just as well pay the money for a hunt in the everglades.:rolleyes: I'd like a nice bull elk too. They have a couple of real nice bulls at the zoo. They're pretty tame and will eat saltine crackers right out of your hand. I think I'll check into it and see how much they might want for one of those bulls. How long would I have to leave one out in my pasture before a fine Texas hunter such as yourself would consider him "wild" and a legitimate trophy ? Again this is important to me because saltines ain't cheap and I imagine a 900 lb bull elk could eat a shitload !:eek:

[southtexas]

define a "Pen".

[GF.]

JMO, a 'pen' is any enclosure which the animal cannot exit at will.

If we were to relocate you to a small town that had everything you needed to live a normal life and a supermax-grade fence all around its limits, would you be a free man or a prisoner?

Look - there are pens and there are Really-Freakin'-Huge-Mother-of-All-Pens pens like they have in Texas. But they're still pens. Like the Winston Churchill story in which some high & mighty woman finds him highly objectionable, but then acknowledges that she'd sleep with him for a million pounds. Then, when he offered her 10, she exclaims "What do you think I am, a prostitute?" and he says "Madam; we've already established that. Now we're negotiating the price."



:confused:

If an animal has been bought or sold, or is descended from an animal which was bought and sold, or even if it is subject to sale or purchase at the discretion of any private individual, it's livestock.

If an animal gets enough of its nutrition from deliberate feeding that its condition would be markedly worse without the hand of man, then it's livestock.

If an animal's genetics have been specifically and deliberately selected by artificial means, then it's livestock.

And if the animals are bought & sold by the pound or by the inch, they're a commodity.


That's not to say that they can't prove difficult to kill, especially in the larger enclosures. But when you get right down to it, if you're inside the pen, then you're paying for the privilege of shooting a farm animal. Doesn't matter if it's a whitetail or a watusi, an oryx or an Elk; Farmed is Farmed, and frankly, at some point it's not even about the damn fence anymore.

[southtexas]

GF thanks for expressing your opinion in a mature and objective manner I understand your position and respect it fully