One Rifle

[venado]

On a bulletin board I regularly go to that is predominently used by Texans, one of the guys asked for feedback on what would the best "One" all around whitetail rifle choice be for a 9,11,13 year old AND their dad. Obviously several tongue-in-cheek picks but Hearne will be pleased with the final results.:D

1. 270- 45 votes
2. 30-06- 29 votes
3. 308- 27 votes
4. 7mm-08- 23 votes
5. 260- 12 votes
6. 25-06- 9 votes
7. 257 Wthby-7 votes
8. 243- 4 votes
9. 257Roberts-3 votes
10. 270 wsm- 3 votes
11. 280- 3 votes
12. 223- 3 votes
13. 22-250- 2 votes
14. 7 mag- 2 votes
15. claymores 2 votes
16.270 Wthby 1 vote
17.300 Wthby 1 vote

[Bill Gunn]

I would add 6.5X55....

[Sabre]

A hunting weight 270 is too much gun for a 9 year old unless it's loaded down. With full power loads it will VERY LIKELY cause a bad case of flinching and produce another lousy shooter. If the father can't learn to kill deer very consistently dead with something like a 243 he needs hunting/shooting lessons in a bad way.

[venado]

Well with your vote Sabre, the 243 would have 5 votes, only 40 shy of the 270..:rolleyes:

[Altjaeger]

Obviously someone mistallied and the first two are inverted.:D

That said Sabre is right which is why Remington has managed recoil loads and handloaders can drop down to .30-30 and .300 Savage levels.:)

As to the .243 I will leave that to others (we need an emoticon of holding your nose).

[postoak]

I'm amazed at how popular the .260 is on that board. Wasn't this cartridge declared obsolescent within a couple of years of its announcement?

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

All of my boys shot 30-06, 270, 25-06 and the like when they were 8 and 9 years old. Depends on the 9 year old I guess. Two of them settled on 270's and the youngest liked the 30-06. They all have their father's propensity for acquiring additional firearms though.

Alan

[Sabre]

Well with your vote Sabre, the 243 would have 5 votes, only 40 shy of the 270..:rolleyes:

I can't help it if Texas hunters don't know anything about marksmanship and killing deer or what would make a good rifle for starting out a young hunter.:rolleyes:

[Altjaeger]

I can't help it if Texas hunters don't know anything about marksmanship and killing deer or what would make a good rifle for starting out a young hunter.:rolleyes:

I dare say you will find Texans in par with anyother state in marksmanship. :D

That said a .30-30 recoils no more than a .243 and throws a much larger bullet at as far as I want a beginner to shoot. Again we need that skunk emoticon.

[Sabre]

That said a .30-30 recoils no more than a .243 and throws a much larger bullet at as far as I want a beginner to shoot. Again we need that skunk emoticon.

I'm pretty well aware of what a 30-30 will do since I've killed somewhere near 50 deer with one. I would agree it's a fine and effective cartridge for a beginner or anyone else for that matter. On the other hand I've also taken quite a number over the years with the 243 without and problems or diffuculty of any kind so can see absolutely no reason to shun it.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

There's really nothing wrong with a 243. Not any more so than a 223, or the old 220 Swift, or a 22-250, etc. The problem withit is this. Many, not all but Many to Most hunters who shoot a 243 buy their ammunition at WalMart. They get a "Box of Bullets" and go hunting.

Now I'm going to say something that will, no doubt, shock the hunting world. Many times, hunters, like fishermen, golfers, and other sportsmen, often do not interpret reality in a literal sense. In less polite terms, They Lie. Wounding and losing a deer is an embarrassment to most hunters. So much so that they will interpret the reality of doing so in less than an absolutely literal sense. I know this because I know some of these hunters and have caught them in their misinterpretations. This communication problem certainly has nothing to do with the firearm they are using and everything to do with the hunter. What I have noticed is that in many instances the forearm that these hunters were using was a 243, and the ammunition they were using was the "Box of Bullets" from WalMart that said "Rapid Expansion" on it.

I have done more tracking jobs on 243 shots than any other. Sos much so that I told a very good friend that, if he insisted on using his beautiful pre-64 M 70 in 243 handed down to him from his grandfather, that I couldn't let him hunt any more. He was sure of his shots, I was sure of some of his shots (because I saw them watching through binoculars), I was sure of his ammo and the bullets he used (because he and I loaded it), I was sure it was NOT killing the deer (in an expedient manner that did not require long trailing jobs or a lost deer) because I was there.

He kinda got his feelings hurt but bought a M700 in 270 and "Low and Behold" the next deer he shot Miraculously "Fell Down" after a fine shoulder shot. I just love it when someone sees the light. I couldn't make him use that 243 again. I did hint that he might want to sell it, but he wouldn't go for that either.

Now why didn't the 243 in question do as well as the 270? I don't know, and I really don't care. I've never personally shot anything with a 243 but I have killed my share of deer with a 222. Neck shots, under 100 yards (mostly) with 55 gr Sierra GKs (mostly). Now, I wouldn't hand that rifle to another hunter and say this is a Deer Killer, it drops them like magic, in fact let your kid use it. They would very likely be disappointed.

You take a 9 yr old and put him on a bench with a 30-06 without taking some precautions (extra padding and a comfortable position) and it will kick his butt. (Hell, the darn things kick my butt these days) But if you give him a good rest, bagged in, with some extra padding for recoil, he'll do just fine. In the field he'll shoot with whatever he's got on and will not feel a thing when the rifle is fired. I only remember one instance of recoil in 50 years of hunting and that was when I had a cast on my right hand and pulled the trigger with my finger tip sticking out of the cast. I shot three times on two instances and remember the shots quite well. It's amazing how much control is lost when you don't have a grip on the wrist.

#1 son bought a little M7 in 243. He's killed a couple of deer with it and for does and spikes it's great. There is nothing mild about the recoil or muzzle blast, so forget that argument. When he goes hunting for real he takes his 270 or another equally suitable rifle.

Alan

[Sabre]

I don't know what happened with your friends deer Alan. I've used 100 grain core-lokt factory loads from Wal-Mart with complete success on 15-20 deer. Never had one go more than the usual 50-60 yards after being shot with one and most times get an exit and decent blood trail. It's not like this stuff is ancient history and my memories of it's performance are fading or anything either. I still use my 243 every season {though mostly with handloads in more recent years}, took one with it last season, two the season before, two the season before that, etc. etc. right on down the line. I wouldn't keep using it if it had proven less than adequate for the job in any way. Truthfully, it's been quite a few years since I've even had a deer get out of sight after I whacked it with my 243 and a pretty high percentage have gone down instantly, right in their tracks. These aren't head or neck shots either, just your usual lung shots like you'd expect to take with any perfectly adequate deer rifle. It's not like I don't have any experience with the 270 to compare my results with either. My son and two brothers all have 270's and I've watched them shoot quite a few deer with them over the years. Frankly I can't tell a nickels worth of difference in the performance/effectiveness between the 270 and the 243. Not in the reaction to the shot, distance travelled after the shot, nor in the wound channels produced. While I agree there isn't any noticeable difference in muzzle blast between the 243 and 270, there is a very pronounced difference in recoil and the 243 is MUCH milder.

[GF.]

How far are these fellas going to be shooting?

You talk to guys from TX, and there can be an awful lot of talk about long shots down the senderos, and there can be an awful lot of focus on cartidges which are entirely unsuitable for 90-odd percent of all shooters, regardless of age, sex, stature or their sign on the zodiac calendar.... :rolleyes:

So, not to step in between Sabre and Alan, because I've only shot deer with the 7-08, 1 with the .45/70 and a handful with .54 roundballs.... But I also used to own a 7 Rem Mag (which knocked the snot out of me, simply as a matter of physics), and like most guys who've ever learned to shoot pretty well, I've burned up an awful lot of .22 LR over the years.

So as a guy on the 'casual shooter' end of the spectrum these days, here's what I'll tell ya....

1) High velocity is worth squat at normal deer hunting ranges of less than 150 yards. All it does most of the time is to put magnum-level stress on a bullet that's being used at comfortable .30-30 range.

2) Bullet weight in the cartridge doesn't count for much; what does matter is the weight of the bullet as it exits the far side of the animal, and retaining 60% of a 140 grain bullet from my 7-08 is worth 105% of an 80 grain bullet coming out of a .243. Plus, it'll have a substantially bigger front end, if you're of the 'bigger & wider is better' school of thought.

3) Velocity and bullet weight both contribute to recoil, but rifle mass provides an off-set and muzzle blast contributes substantially to perceived recoil.

4) Nothing turns a fair shot into a quivering, flinching marksmanship disaster quicker than getting slammed around by a hard-kicking and or ill/fitting rifle... And you can't fight the physics on this; when I had the 7 Mag, any shooting session over half a box of ammo left me feeling pretty fuzzy around the edges - somewhere between a hang-over and having come up real short in a sparring match. And at that point in my life, I was about the size of a lot of 13 year-old kids these days. Still am, o' course, but IMO that puts me in a better position to weigh in on matters of smaller shooters and recoil management/tolerance..... ;)

So, IMO....

Most 'youth' rifles do the shooter a disservice in every respect except length of pull; they're too light, too short in the barrel, and - in the .243 - they throw a bullet that's a lot smaller than it could be a lot faster than it needs to go. And speaking as the father of two boys with severe to profound hearing impairment in 3 ears out of 4, I will tell you that you cannot possibly put a price on a kid's hearing.

In other words, I'd say that there is no one-rifle solution to this guy's situation. He needs at least two, and the first one ought to be a good .22LR. I don't care what you shoot in your centerfire, the .22 will pay for itself - a box of centerfire costs about the same as somewhere between 1 and 4 bricks of .22 - everybody will have more fun, nobody will get trained to flinch, and he'll be able to get everybody out more often.

Secondly, he's gonna need a centerfire that fits the smallest boy tolerably well with a good recoil pad in place; I'd suggest finding a slightlly battered used rifle (in excellent shooting condition!) so that he can take slices off of the butt and create an adjustable LOP set-up.. It'll be somewhere between 'tactical' looking and just plain ugly, but the groups won't.

Third, I'd choose something for which the managed recoil rounds are available. JMO, that's a better call than going with a .243 to cut the recoil, because once everybody is ready for standard loads, there's no shortcoming to the standard round, whereas a .243 will never be anything more than a .243...

I've looked over the load for the 7-08, and frankly, that's a better choice for the way I hunt these days than the standard factory load, so no sense in Dad feeling emasculated by shooting the 'sissy stuff'. He's got the kids as an excuse, anyway... :rolleyes: That said, if my 7-08 were lost or stolen, I'd probably replace it with a .270 or .280 because they're more versatile and I'm more likely to hunt with a rifle out west and do my whitetail hunting with the bow, ML, or .45/70... As it stands, though, I'm in good shape with my little Mountain Rifle for when my boys come along to shooting age...


Also...

+1 for the Swede and a 'Hey, why not?' for the .257 Bob. :cool:

[Herne]

I have to admit also that I have seen a lot of very big deer H&Led perfectly well with a 243, and like Sabre, it is difficult to tell the difference. I still hate the thing, mainly because the US made ammo is to frangible for a deer round. Even the stuff that says it is.

However, a monolithic expanding solid should transform it.

I'm surprised the 270 came out as a youngsters choice. With 130g grainers at full chat it does have a bit of a jab to it. Still, downloaded it would be OK.

I'd have gone for the Swede as an all rounder in this particular debate.

However --- the 270 is a very very good round, placed right. ;)

[venado]

Perhaps lost in this discussion is that the "One Rifle" was to be used by all of the kids plus the dad. It wasn't a selection for which rifle would be best for each of the four people. In short order the younger children will be older and that "One Rifle" will still be suitable. The low recoil and lighter bullet rounds probably would be a good choice for the youngsters since they have approximately 1/2 the recoil of the full power round. As a side note, these voters accepted the restriction of a need for only one rifle. If I were forced to make that nasty choice it would be the 270 with those light 130s just to stir Herne's pot.:D

Around the campfire a "man gun" for deer would have to be at least 25 cal with 243s reserved for little kids, small women and wimpy adults. With only one rifle in the whole family it just wouldn't be right to embarrass the dad around the campfire, and the dad could hide the kids low-recoil ammo in a plain wrapper so that the kids wouldn't feel inferior to their equal aged compatriots that shot real rifles.:rolleyes:

[Sabre]

Perhaps lost in this discussion is that the "One Rifle" was to be used by all of the kids plus the dad. It wasn't a selection for which rifle would be best for each of the four people. In short order the younger children will be older and that "One Rifle" will still be suitable. The low recoil and lighter bullet rounds probably would be a good choice for the youngsters since they have approximately 1/2 the recoil of the full power round. As a side note, these voters accepted the restriction of a need for only one rifle. If I were forced to make that nasty choice it would be the 270 with those light 130s just to stir Herne's pot.:D

Around the campfire a "man gun" for deer would have to be at least 25 cal with 243s reserved for little kids, small women and wimpy adults. With only one rifle in the whole family it just wouldn't be right to embarrass the dad around the campfire, and the dad could hide the kids low-recoil ammo in a plain wrapper so that the kids wouldn't feel inferior to their equal aged compatriots that shot real rifles.:rolleyes:
Around here a "man" can shoot well enough to kill deer deader'n hell with a .22 lr over and over and don't need no damned cannon ta git the job done.:rolleyes:

[dave-t.]

For that case, one of the cheaper switch barrel jobs would be the ticket. A stock to fit youth, and a stok to fit adult, with a .357, .44mag, 7.65x39, 30-30 for youth, and an adult barrel, 7mm-08+ for adult.

Whole she-bang should run under $600, with cheap scopes, or one scope with switcher scope rings.

Two complete H&R/Rossi rifles could be had for $500 or so.

I will say that a 257R with factory Rem 117grn roundnose going 2660fps, is a powder puff on the bench (9-10lbs felt recoil or so) , and is easily a 200yd capable deer load. The stock fit won't be for everyone though. Maybe cut it to fit the little guys and have a slip on pad ready to help fit grownups.

I've known a lot of hunters who started out hunting as kids with .222's, .223's, 220Swifts, etc. The deer always died at the end of their first deer stories.

If they are talking about one rifle for all hunting in America, .270 is the minimum and a .30cal better, imo.

[Twanger]

IMHO - a 30-06 kicks too hard to be a kids round. Ditto the .270.

Gimme a .308, or GF's 7mm-08 as a soup-to-nutz deer round that includes kids and parents.

[Herne]

Twanger I agree - this is a one deer gun for the family.

The 270 I'm sure is more than a beginner would like on the range. And, I've never really fancied the 270 unless its firing 150 grain bullets. The 130 is all piss and wind, meat mashing for no gain IMO.(but for foxing at night, the 90gTNT is just superb - thats a cutteminharf job. Not much use for deer, but then the noise and shunt is a lot for a tiddler anyway)

Energy levels with a 308 are a touch on the high side - there's not a lot between that and a 270. and its a short fat stumpy cartridge, so that rules that out.

6.5 -100 or so g bullets, downloaded a bit. Elk round for a youngster, if he can place it right. :)

Or a Roberts.

[GF.]

I think, with the new bullets, that the old Roberts is due for a serious renaissance...

It won't sell well to the macho types, but for just about anybody else.....:cool:

[dave-t.]

I regret not buying some of those .257 cal 80grn tsx bullets to give a try over the 100grn ttsx that I did buy. Talk about a light kicking and flat shooting deer load.

There's always next year.:rolleyes:

[Bushman]

Dave that was a pleasant surprise at the range when I first tried my .257 Roberts M760. Were did all the recoil go? That said it is still a tad long for a short action and if guys need to go with a standard length action, they will opt for a .25-06 instead.

I'm looking at page 61 of the new Remington Catalog and see that they make Managed Recoil loads now for the .260, MM-08, .270,.30-30, .308, .30-06, MM RM, .300 WM and .300 RUM. MR loads in the .260, MM-08, .270, .30-30 .308 and .30-06 all recoil LESS than a .243 with 100 grain deer loads. Because of the lighter weight rifles being easier to manage for a young shooter, I would take one of those shorter action cartridges like the .260, MM-08 or the .308. Personally I have seen what full sized loads from a .30-30, MM-08, .308 and .30-06 do to a deer and my vote goes to the MM-08 in probably a M Mountain Rifle to get the longer barrel. I'd get it in the youth model if they make one plus another full size stock or add those new adjustable length of pull spacers as needed.

[dave-t.]

I don't have a lot of experience with light kickers, but the first time I killed deer with the .257R, I was shocked that I saw the bullet impact through the scope. With the 300wm you tend to see woods, air, cornfield or any combo of those durring the recoil. Seeing the impact and the deer drop was a :eek: moment for me. 180yrds, 11pt buck and the doe he was trailing. It was an eye openner as to the different advantages to be had between deer rifles/cartridges.

[GF.]

+1 for the Mountain Rifle :D

If you're gonna get a Remington, anyway....:rolleyes:

My 7-08 Mtn Rifle just seems to me to be an excellent all-rounder; at least for a guy who no longer has any interest in shooting stuff that's very far away and (JMO, having shot regularly at 200 and 300 yards, back in the day), 200 yards is a damn long shot. Not too far to hit reliably - you throw in a bi-pod or shooting sticks and killing a deer very neatly shouldn't be any trick at all if you can shoot worth a damn - it just isn't that hard to get within 200 yards of any of the big game species I've ever run across, and I guess that's why I lost interest in killing deer that far away long before I ever actually even did it....

Anyway, yeah - nice barrel length, not very heavy, but not too light. Really, about the worst thing I can say about is that it has been a long time since I saw a replacement stock for one and...oh, yeah... there's that Remington trigger/safety issue. :rolleyes: I really ought to have a good trigger and a Mauser-style safety put on it, but I think that's gonna have to wait until it starts seeing regular use again. A bow is just a heck of a lot more suitable weapon for where I'm living these days....

A .257 Roberts would sure be slick in a single-shot, though, wouldn't it? :cool: Either a nice, trim European style or maybe a lightweight Dakota, if those guys are still around. Be a shame to saddle a nice,light round like that with anything as heavy as a Ruger No.1, though....

I still think that quarterbore and .277 variants on the old .308 case would be mighty useful rounds, especially if the .257 was a short-action Roberts clone and - with apologies to Herne ;) - if the .270-class were set up around the 130-grain bullets. In a managed recoil load, that could be a real pussycat, and if you gave it the 'light mag' treatment topped off with a copper monolithic.... Man, that'd be like shooting a real, live .270 Win! :eek: :p

[Herne]

Mountain rifle - yess it has its supporters. I'm afraid I would be one who would use it for supporting something - like the lid of the trash can.

Every time this one comes up - they are just a bastard to zero. The barrel bends they start to walk and you have troubles, unless you shoot every group VERY SLOWLY INDEED.(which is good for coffee sales)

A case of a bad idea made badly and marketed well.

I would recommend a (!)(270) Tikka M695 though. Not too heavy, not too light, and shoots very straight, even on a hot barrel. Also one of the best factory triggers made comes with it. Sound bit of engineering - worth every penny.

[DaveHawk]

Ven I only have a 270 Tikka 3 so yes it would be a 270 for me which favors a 150 gr partition. The only reason I have that gun is because I won it at a RMEF banquet, I prefer my 50 & 54 cal Flint Lock.

[GF.]

Mountain rifle - yess it has its supporters. I'm afraid I would be one who would use it for supporting something - like the lid of the trash can.

Every time this one comes up - they are just a bastard to zero. The barrel bends they start to walk and you have troubles, unless you shoot every group VERY SLOWLY INDEED.(which is good for coffee sales)

A case of a bad idea made badly and marketed well.

I would recommend a (!)(270) Tikka M695 though. Not too heavy, not too light, and shoots very straight, even on a hot barrel. Also one of the best factory triggers made comes with it. Sound bit of engineering - worth every penny.

Speaking as a guy who owns a Mtn. Rifle, I'm going to agree with every single bad thing you said about it... :eek: I think I fell in love with this particular rifle mostly because the 7-08 was so much more pleasant to shoot than my old 7 Mag. That, and I'm just not all that sophisticated about rifles :o

But were the execution better..... 'Not too heavy', 'not too light' and - might I add - 'not too short in the barrel' all help the shooter carry and use the rifle well, so I guess I should have said "+1 for something along those lines..."

There are some days when I really miss my old Sako. Not the recoil of the 7 Mag chambering and not the ill-fitting stock, mind you, but once the .22 allowed me learn how to keep both eyes open all the way through the shot instead of diving for the floor just before the trigger broke, it really was a wonderfully accurate rifle. And despite the recoil, it really was a hoot to watch a gallon milk jug erupt at 300 yards, and even more satisfying to always find a bullet hole in that 2" circle they've so thoughtfully molded into the side of them...

I cheated, though - I always aimed at the cap, which at 300 yards was just the right size to disappear behind the crosshairs :D

So.... Does the Tikka come in a Roberts?

[Sabre]

So.... Does the Tikka come in a Roberts?

Unfortunately the Tikka models 595 and 695 don't come into this country at all anymore. Beretta USA ceased importing them in favor of the cheaper T-3 back in 2002 I believe. It's a shame too, as they really are excellent rifles. I bought a 595 chambered in 243 back in 2000 and it's positively the most accurate rifle I've ever owned.

[Bushman]

There are other rifles that I like better than a M700 Mountain Rifle, but the wide availability of inexpensive injected molded synthetic stocks with different lengths of pull just seems to me that it fits the bill well for a youth and an adult shooter. A couple minutes with a screw driver and one rifle can go from short stock to full size. I had my step son down at the sport shop with a blank check to get what ever he wanted. He handled a bunch of different rifles and I thought it was going to be a M7 in 7mm-08 or .308, but he liked a .280 in a M700 Mountain Rifle the best. In retrospect that 22" barrel gets the muzzle blast farther away and balances the rifle pretty well.

[Sidekick]

Mine's in .270 and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Herne]

Sabre, I don't think the 5/695s are even made at all. The T3 (cheapened to compete in the US market against US trade tariffs) is the current model

And you are absolutely right- they are cheap, and nasty. But a second had 6/595 in good nick would be a treasure. And you can get various but spacers, droppers etc to alter the rifle. Undo the recoil pad (2 screws) and slip the fittings in, or take them out.

25/06 or 6.5 Swedish Mauser. And you can fire them till there's a heat haze coming off the barrel - you get a little climb, but no spread.

They just work, brilliant trigger. And all of the 4 I have owned (in the family as it were, have shot inside 1/2" with home loads, and inside 1" with factory - 1 270 for clients. Straight line feed, never jam, never fail to eject. Just superb guns for the money.

[ADK Jakes]

I swear by the Remington 7600 in .308. Light weight, reasonably priced and the gun is a shooter. Recoil is managable and .308 will kill whatever NA game you shoot at.

[GF.]

I guess that's the other thing about my Mtn. Rifle that gives me a different perspective on it: While hunting, I've fired it more than once in a single day on exactly two occasions.

And I hope for your sake that that never happened to you while you were getting paid to keep the barrel warm and the carcasses cold :D

[Herne]

Two or three quite often, but mostly one. (Does or antlerless deer in your lingo. Never been one for trophies personally. For other people yes, but not for me) Many in the US could do that, but your tag system prevents it. Thats the only difference.

I wasn't thinking of hunting so much as zeroing and developing loads!

[dave-t.]

Off topic, but with our unlimited doe tags in MO, I was thinking of going rapid rate of fire at them this year (one per animal of course). It's funny, our limit on rabbits is 6 per day, limit on deer???? How many tags do you want for $7 each. 6, 8, 10?:cool: You can legally kill more deer in a day than rabbits or squirrels in a day, if you are up to it.

One rifle may not be enough.;)

[GF.]

Two or three quite often, but mostly one.

In a day?:confused: Somehow I was under the impression that it was a higher-volume business than that....

Zeroing and load development... Ah, yes.... Of course, my technique for that consists of buying a box of factory loads, firing 3 shots at about 20-minute intervals, and verifying that all three fit into an inch and a half or better, on-center, give or take an inch, and not more than 2" high of zero at 100 yards.

I always take the .22LR along and put a box of rimfire down the range while I'm waiting. Keeps me away from the coffee, which is good, because the shakier I get the worse I shoot. Also the best cure for flinching I know of :D

And in defense of the worthless piece of crap, the only time I recall when I've had to diddle with the scope settings was when I went from 140 grains up to the Federal/Sierra 150 and had to correct about an inch and a half of drift to about 2:00. The BTs shot like gangbusters - sometimes under 1/2" - but overall, Federal Premiums hit into the same group whether I used Partitions or Ballisti-bombs, and both of those hit into the same group as Remington Green-Box 140 Core-Lokts & 120-grain HPs and the Remington 'extended range' 154-grain boattails that I started out with.

Some would say that it's a shockingly undemanding standard that I'm holding this rifle to, but for a guy who has taken exactly one shot at triple-digit yardage in 17 years with it, it's kind of nice to have a rifle that will cheerfully put one shot right where I want it to go, regardless of load. After all, 1.5 to 2" 'out' at a hundred yards doesn't amount to much at 30 yards and closing :D


So I guess I'll worry about working up a 'better' load when I find that the rifle's not shooting up to my potential :rolleyes: :D For now, I'm pretty sure that the weak link in the system is not made of wood, steel, brass or lead.

[pepaw]

Interesting results.
I didn't know the .260 had that many supporters! I still have to explain to people what a .260 is when they ask what I shoot.
That .257 weatherby listed right below it is a lot of recoil and cost for small bump over the 25-06.
I agree with Alan that for some reason, I have trailed more deer with the .243than the others combined. That may have to do with marksmanship or bullets, but it is the fact. Of course, lots and lots of TX hunters use them so that accounts for some of the numbers.
I am shooting one (Vanguard) for a friend today because it makes the perfect pig caliber.
When you don't care if they fall right there or not, as long as they quit rooting your fields.


stumpy

[Herne]

Matt- sometime you had good days - you might get a couple in the morning, something in the evening. Sometimes you'd drop one, and then go somewhere else and find something else. Sometmes you got nothing. There is no magic - wild deer are wild deer and they don't give up so easy, wherever they are.

The deer parks are different. they stil don't give up easily, but thats shooting an annual excess inside the wire, not hunting. Sure its very diffcult shooting, but hunting it isn't.

Most I ever got was 9 in a couple of minutes - wild deer but that was an oddtiy.

The trick was NOT great fancy shooting. Mostly it was being able to read a situation and the deer, so you could turn a seemingly slim chance into a carcass, when many others might not even see the animal to start with. Good optics, knowing the quarry and being able to translate experience so even on strange ground you could still make it work.

Oh and making each shot count. Thats vital to success. No f***wit tail end shots or long penetration see if it doesn't work shots - just in and out in front of the 10th rib. And no point in shooting till you can make that work. Mostly close, sometimes not so close, but close is best. :)

[Rugerman]

My youngest son shot his first deer at age 7 with my ruger #1 270 and at 8 he shot one with a 7mm mag. When they have hair in their sights the recoil doesn't seem to be noticed, but its different when your shooting at a target, then the recoil is felt.

[dave-t.]

My 10yr old daughter is just the opposite. She is very pettitie, and a single shot .410 is as much as she wants to handle. She is a fine shot with a .22, but I have not pushed her farther than what she enjoys to shoot. She'll get there, or not, but I'll be well aware of her comfort range along the way.

I will say that desire has a lot to do with what a person will put up with as well. There are hunters out there shooting some big intimidating rounds at big intimidating dangerous game. They must have an overwhelming desire to do what they do.