Long gun for survival

[Jordan]

I know that survival guns have already been discussed, but the talk was about handguns. which is great but it got me thinking about long guns for survival. what would your ideal long gun be for survival? .22 for that amout of ammo that could be easily carried or possibly a shotgun for the different kinds of ammo (shot, slugs)? just want to see what you all think about the subject.

[Rock Chuck]

A .22 will work as long as you can get close enough to big game. However, if I want to survive, I need the critter dead. I don't want to play the stalking game. I'd go for an absolute minimum of a .223 and would prefer a caliber with at least a .243 diam. bullet

[REM]

Jordan,

What kind of survival are you talking about?

[Altjaeger]

I can think of few situations for most of us that a rifle would make much difference for survival. The most likely would be a plane crash in the wilderness of Alaska where you would likely have a big game rifle of some sort. That said it is always a fun game to play.:)

I reject shotguns out of hand due to the weight of ammo. By the time you get a few slugs, maybe a few rounds of buckshot, a dozen #2 shot and a box each of #4 and #7 1/2 you have accumulated a good bit of mass and weight.

Until recently I would have picked a .22 WMR as providing measurable increase in power over the .22 LR. Still it allows a plentiful supply of ammo in 2-3 configurations making it more practical on large game than the frangible .17 rimfires.

However, I read an article on this topic the other day that reminded my of an option I forgot years ago. Though it discussed several options my choice would be my handy old .30-06 and a few cartridge sleeves that can be loaded with .32 pistol ammo. The pistol ammo would shoot handily at short range for small game while the full house rounds would easily handle moose, caribou and black bear. Very likely 2 boxes of .30-06 and one or two boxes of 50 rounds each of the winter should easily fill the needs of a winter. Half that much ammo should carry from October through the New Year comfortably.

[LampLighter]

I'd prefer the AR in .223 . I would opt for a heavy bullet.

[Sabre]

I'd have to know WHERE AND FOR HOW LONG do I need to survive?

[REM]

Me too?

[LampLighter]

You cannot. Survival situations are not planned, they are sudden and unexpected, so you must pick something now on the thread.

[Sabre]

You cannot. Survival situations are not planned, they are sudden and unexpected, so you must pick something now on the thread.

Horse crap, I ain't goin' nowhere sudden and unexpected.

[LampLighter]

If you know a survival situation is coming then you have early warning thus you can avoid the situation--- whewwwwwww-:rolleyes: right over his head. :rolleyes:

[Sabre]

I'm sure I'd know ahead of time if I was gonna be takin' a trip somewhere far off. What do you figure you're just gonna go to bed in Louisianna one night and wake up unexpectedly in Alaska the next mornin' ?:rolleyes:

[LampLighter]

No, but Leroy , Tyrone, Keshina, and Lil' Jarome might band together and stir up stuff. :D

[Jordan]

I have to agree with lamplighter about not knowing when your are going to be put into a survival situation. But i guess my question was what gun would be best in your opinions for a all around long gun for whatever situation. i realize there is nothing that will be perfect for everything.

[DancesWithKnives]

Well, it's kind of cheating but what about a Thompson with a couple different barrels? One for large game and one for small game. As I recall, they may also offer a scattergun barrel.

Playing fair, when I go on extended AK wilderness river trips I take a Mossberg 590 with a variety of ammo.

DWK

[Bushman]

My Savage M24V in .22 Magnum over a 3" 20 gauge barrel. It has a peep sight and would be fine for most of the survival situations that I can think of. There is a lot more little stuff that I could hunt that wouldn't hold still for the rifle, but I could get a deer with the .22 magnum or a 20 gauge slug. I'm thinking back to that TV show where they dropped a bunch of inexperienced people into Alaska. Lots of time when they went hunting, they had the wrong gun of the two that they had. The .45-70 was near useless for what they ran into. Ducks, squirrels and porcupines were on their menu and all of them would have been perfect game for my M24V.

[LampLighter]

Those were very popular back in the day. It is the one that has the selector switch , right ? I mean, I guess that is common sense. How else would you choose which barrel. Probably a dumb q.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I have a Win Mod 92 that has been converted to 357 mag. It's light, holds multiple rounds, is accurate, and the ammo is interchangeable with what I'll probably have on my belt. Ammo is fairly common so finding some may not be a problem and I'd have 357 and 38 spl to choose from. I've often thought that having one of those little Ruger rifles that they make in 44 mag but in 357 instead would be nice. In either Semi Auto or Lever as long as it was clip fed. The round isn't really too large for small game using solids or the 38, and jacketed or hollow point bullets do well on deer if used right. , and I'm told that two legged varmints are pretty easy fodder as well.

Alan

[Waidmann]

I'm going to make an assumption here. My plane crashed in Alaska, and I survived. I have to walk out. It's going to take me a couple weeks (minimum) to walk out (assuming I don't get hopelessly lost). What survival long gun do I want with me?

When I was in Germany, I (like many of my fellow Americans) got intrigued with the German combination guns. Drillings (three barrel rifle/shotugns) or even Vierillings (four barrel rifles/shotguns) captured the imagination. Unfortunately, I didn't have the money, so I never bought one....however, I did run across a couple combination rifle/shotguns that I looked at seriously.

I ended up passing on a Savage .222/20 gauge rifle/shotgun. That would be a competitor for survival long gun (especially in the Continential US, where I wouldn't be overly concerned about becoming some animal's dinner), however, I did purchase a "pig gun", which was an over/under rifle/shotgun in .30-06/12 gauge. I mounted a 4X scope on it, and it was one of my pig guns for the last couple years I was stationed there.

I think that would be my survival gun if I spent 2 weeks to a month hiking out of the bush. I suspect that a dozen .30-06 rounds and a box of #4s would either see me to civilization or I wouldn't make it at all.

Waidmann

[Bill Gunn]

I would have to go with Bushman's Savage M24V in .22 Magnum over a 3" 20 gauge barrel.

With the newer powerful slugs they have today, loads of #4 shot, and the .22 Mag...

[Bushman]

Savage made a lot of those combination M24's and the M2400 manufactured by Valmet for Savage. To correct my earlier post, I pulled the 22 mag / 20 gauge out to weigh it (7#) and see that it is a M24H-DL, not a M24V if anyone wants to get one. The M24V is one of their larger models that has a .222, .22 Hornet, .357 Mag. or a .30-30 barrel over a 20 gauge barrel. That one wouldn't be bad as a survival gun either, but it weighs more than the .22 Mag. and for the weight difference I could carry a lot more ammunition. In a perfect survival situation in the far north we would all like to be dining on loin of caribou. In the real world however, it is more likely to be roasted red squirrel so I think I'll keep the M24H-DL.

LL, there is a thumb operated selector located on the top of the hammer that rocks back to fire the upper rifle barrel or forward to fire the shotgun barrel.

[dave-t.]

Scoped .22mag would be my first choice. .357mag carbine or shotgun 20-12gauge would be my second and third choice, in no particular order.

If I was in big bear country, I might change that some, but I'm typically not in big bear country.

[rimrock]

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Images/photo_1894_45Colt.jpg

caliber 45 colt or 44 mag and several boxes of ammo, maybe not ideal for everything but Id eat good and fear nothing that walks in the areas I hunt, Id doubt anythings going to survive a couple well placed hits and youve got a least 7-9 in the magazine

[Scout]

I've got a little Springfield M6 that's about perfect for "living off the land" type of survival. Mine is the .22 lr version...

Given the "other" survival senerio....my Bushmaster AR fits the bill.

[GF.]

A .22LR over 8mm Mauser would probably do it very nicely for me. With a lower-powered scope, if you please, but definitely irons on there, too. A peep in the back would be nice, with a light-contour barrel in the 20” range so that the RF barrel looks almost as much like a rib as anything else. Hollow out the buttstock to fit 20 rounds for the CF in a cartridge holder, stick a couple-three, maybe even 4 boxes of very accurate .22s in the pack and I think I'd be good for anything short of 'indefinitely', just about anywhere in the world. Well, maybe if I thought I was gonna end up in Africa, I guess I'd want 2 boxes for the 8mm.... ;)

I dunno – would there be an advantage to dual triggers rather than a selector switch? Reliability wins, even if you have to pot-shoot a grouse with a centerfire...

Anyway, there’s not much the way of camp meat that I can’t kill better with a .22 than a shotshell. I’m just a crappy wingshot, if I do say so, and a .22 brings a porcupine down in a hurry but won’t completely destroy a red squirrel or a camp robin… So no sense missing something with a full ounce of lead when I could probably hit it with a tenth. Not like you’re going to waste any ammo on flying targets in a survival situation, anyway. Unless you’re on TV, I suppose. :rolleyes:

And as for the Mauser… Ammo’s not too heavy - compared with say a 180-grain load for a .30 cal, you’re looking at maybe a couple ounces per box, and I’d save a lot more than that by going .22 instead of shotgun. Euro loads for the 8 are no slouches and they make some very stout bullets in 8mm, so I wouldn’t feel horribly undergunned even if I did run into a big ol’ bear...except for the single-shot aspect, I suppose. Yes, other rounds shoot flatter, but they do better with a longer, heavier barrel and again, you’re not going to shoot very far at anything when all the chips are down, are you?

And really, if we’re talking about an honest-to-God, capital S Survival situation, how far away can you jacklight a deer with a birchbark torch or a mini mag-light, anyway? Probably don’t even need to waste a CF round at that rate. :rolleyes:

[Hi Ball]

Survival as in a plan crash in Alaska!......Ummmmmmm OK, my .338 Win mag and 9mm pistol. Now survival as in society just turned inside out and lawless situation on the streets etc. I'll take my FAL SA-58 .308 caliber and my Glock 10mm. Now if lost in Africa, I want my .44mag pistol and my .416 Rem mag.;)

[Sabre]

For a "living off the land" situation in most areas I'd take my scoped, bolt action .22 mag. along with a few steel cable snares in my pack and I reckon I won't go without protein if there's any game around.

[Waidmann]

GF,

I had a German Drilling in my hand that had two 16-gauge barrels over an 8mm Mauser. It would have quite possible to put an rifle barrel insert in one of the shotgun barrels chambered to .222 Rem (not sure about .22 Mag--the Europeans don't use that one). That would give you one shotgun barrel, one 8mm Mauser barrel and one .222 Rem all in one firearm.

Only problem is remembering which barrel has what and which trigger to pull (there are two triggers plus a switch to select between the lower barrel and the left shotgun barrel). Even experienced Jaegers got confused from time to time, and I know a German Jaeger who accidentally shot a large pig with a .222 Rem bullet. He found the pig the next day with the help of his dog. Even that little .222 will kill a pig if you hit it right. Not real quickly, perhaps, but eventually.

Waidmann

[Altjaeger]

In the early 80s I saw several drillings set up ith a .22WMR insert in one shotgun barrel. The scope would be adjusted to the centerfire barrel. The insert was keyed to adjust until it came in line with the centerfire barrel so the same sights worked for both barrels.

The .22 WMR was popular for fox and though not technically legal many would use it to kill the roe fawns in the shooting plan.

[GF.]

I had a German Drilling in my hand that had two 16-gauge barrels over an 8mm Mauser.

Funny you should mention that drilling, because I too, once shouldered exactly that combination. It was in an out-of-the-way little gun/pawn/antique store in MN. One of those three, though I can't recall which. I was completely taken with it, but was concerned that it was just a wall-hanger and I would've wanted to by-damn hunt with it :D

But hey, here's an updated idea...

If you had a .30 cal rifle and one of those chamber adapter inserts, you could load it up with .327 Federal Mags - assuming it would hold the pressure..... That would change your outlook on what the pistol rounds could do for you, but still...

Thing is, there's the meat-gittin survival gun, in which case any number of Alaskan natives can tell you that a .22 LR will do very nicely, and I really can't come up with much reason to go much bigger than that. Ammo is just too heavy. Then there's the defending-yourself-against-big-mean-&-nasty-4-leggers survival gun, which is a hell of a load to carry around when nobody's chomping down on your ankle - or fixin' to.... And for which application a single-shot is not your best friend....


Hmmmmmmm...................

[Rock Chuck]

...
Thing is, there's the meat-gittin survival gun, in which case any number of Alaskan natives can tell you that a .22 LR will do very nicely, and I really can't come up with much reason to go much bigger than that. ......

Then there's the defending-yourself-against-big-mean-&-nasty-4-leggers survival gun, which is a hell of a load to carry around when nobody's chomping down on your ankle - or fixin' to.... And for which application a single-shot is not your best friend....
Do any .22's come with a belt fed, 1000 round capacity?

[Hink]

What if there is a zombie outbreak or a post nuclear holocaust situation and its stickies or other mutants? The Trader carried an armalite AR10 and Woody carried everything from shears to chain saws in zombieland.

I'm not sure you can carry enough ammo if its zombies.

Maybe a 30 caliber carbine might do it for a day or so but ammo is going to become a concern. The advise always using a double tap on them whether its a firearm or baseball bat you are using.

Now there's some food for thought.