Small, medium, or large (buck)

[Twanger]

I've been blessed the last few years with some nice bucks, each bigger than the last. Last year's grossed 144 inches.

My 'head' is telling me to not shoot a buck unless it's pretty clear that it's bigger than my best buck, let's say 150 inches or bigger. Soooo, this means that the chances of me shooting a buck this year is very small... probably in the 1% range. Maybe less. People go their entire lives and never shoot a 150-inch deer. :(

So there's this part of me saying it's all or nothing. Go big or just shoot does.

But I'm conflicted. Do I really want to deny myself this way? Should I? My 'heart' is telling me that I'd like to shoot any good buck that walks by... pretty much anything over 100 inches. I crave putting my hands on a nice rack. Even an average one. I probably would not mount a 100-inch buck. Maybe a Euro mount, but certainly not a shoulder mount.

I know I should probably leave the nice, but average, bucks to the newer hunters who have not yet had the chance to shoot one. They would love to have the chance to get a shoulder mount done with a 110-inch buck. They would be ecstatic over a buck who's antlers I'd probably turn into bottle-openers.

This is not a "one precious tag" issue. I get two bow tags so I could shoot a decent buck, and then hold out for a whopper. Heck, if I kill does in the right order I can kill 6 bucks. I'm already in a position that I could legally take 4 bucks in 3 weapon seasons.

I'd like your advice... Have you gotten to the point that you've faced this choice? What did you do?

[DaveHawk]

Walt I use to think that way for about 2 seconds LOL I figure that this area will hold good 125-150" deer It depends on the hunt and how I feel. I look for character in a deer. If he is about 125" then I think about the shot. Over 140 no thinking necessary. Take each buck that comes your way and figure out the age, will he be bigger next year and also will you likely see him again of not. Some areas you know he will get shot. So are you the one to take him of let someone else take him. Then you have the...he dose not belong in the gene pool bucks and they get eliminated.

AND SOME DAYS YOU JUST FEEL LIKE KILLING A DEER

BTW I dropped my 1st doe of the year this morning. Nice pass through arrow hit it mark but some how turned and angled down through the gut. I hate that. I was thinking of heading out for a hunt this evening but look outside it's dark gray and starting to rain.
I think I'll pass. Tomorrow is another day.

[Twanger]

Yes, it just poured down rain here. It would have sucked being in a tree. :D

Thanks for the answer. I appreciate it.

There is this one buck I've been seeing on the game camera pictures - a reasonably mature (say 2.5 year old) 4X1. He's got a decent 4-point rack on one side and a funny spike on the other... about as tall as the other side.

The big question is: will he be like that next year, or is there are chance he'll grow a full rack next year?

Oh, and congrats on the doe!

[dave-t.]

If I was after a bigger one than my biggest, I wouldn't have shot a buck since 2001.:( Depressing thought.

You only shoot the biggest buck of your life once. I don't think that is a reason to give every other male deer you encounter a hall pass, forever.

Heck I keep going down hill. 149g/144n, 144g/138n, 131g/126n, 125g/119n. Those are my biggest in the order I shot them. I will say though that the last one 125/119 was shot about two weeks after my daughter was born, and I wasn't going to get much more time to hunt. It was my third sit on stand for the year, and I know I didn't get many more bow hunts in after that.

If you see a deer that gets you excited, then use your skills to bring him into your possession. I will say though, that I all but burned myself out targeting "the big one" one year, and the next year I set my goal as 'any 8pt+ buck'. I took a yearling with potential wearing 8pts. I wasn't very happy with him. I spent a ton of time hunting, but didn't have a lot to choose from that year, can't say why. I don't know if it was the lack of inches of antler, or that it was such a young deer, but it didn't feel right. I wasn't proud.

The other deer I have taken I have been proud of, and if you see one that tickles your fancy, it would be a disservice to you to not get your kicks from hunting/killing him.

You don't have to be ashamed or embarrassed of your success. Just because you pass a deer doesn't mean the other guy can get him. You should set your limit pretty high, state book #'s high (guessing 110-115" out of the blue for MD) to challenge yourself, but by no means should you just quit something that you enjoy and take pride in.

Until my kid was born I set P&Y as my min. most years, and did pass a couple that were right at that mark, 120"+net or so, but I always knew there were bigger deer on the property I was hunting, or I probably would not have passed.

And as always, rules are subject to change to fit your needs/wants/pleasures. If you see a spike that catches your eye for some reason, take him and enjoy the hunt. It's not selfish to be good at something.;)

Do you see yourself being happy passing on a 143" buck?:rolleyes:;)

[postoak]

Walt, if you see a buck and it excites you, then shoot it. :)

[ncboman]

Have you gotten to the point that you've faced this choice? What did you do?

How's your patience? :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Forum%20pics/Ourdeer---experimental014r.jpg
Nov 17, 1999

:rolleyes:

[GF.]

Are you a hunter or a deer manager?

If you're serious about culling, then if it gives you a clean shot, kill it.
If you're serious about 'QDM', then cull the 'poorer' specimens if you feel the need, and let the 'promising' ones walk until they get big enough to satisfy whatever criteria suit your fancy.

JMO, it's the Hunt that matters. If I've worked hard or done a difficult thing and done it well, then any animal is trophy enough in its own right. I'm sure LL and I would agree on this point - any public land deer of 2.5 years or more is something of an achievement, buck or doe; shoot a 'book-class' deer at one of those operations that resembles a petting zoo more than anything else, and you might not be too proud of yourself no matter how big it nets or any o' that stuff....

And for that matter, if you can honestly say you've outsmarted or outmaneuvered even a semi-educated 1.5 YO buck, as I did with my best ML buck, then what's not to be happy with?


But look at it this way...

You live where there are just too dang many deer out there for the number of hunters who have access to hunt them; if a buck comes by and you pass him up, what are the odds that another hunter will get him vs. a car or some other kind of accident? You're not gonna wreck the gene pool by taking any given buck, and there is at least some reason to take every one that you can. So if an interesting rack walks by, there's no sense burdening your conscience with that particular buck's demise. Or maybe instead of the 'quality' of the rack, let the quality of the shot decide.... A buck that gives you a quartering-away angle at (more or less) the exact range that your #1 pin is set for is a serious 'trophy' shot - you can put him down neat as a pin and he'll never know what hit him, so what greater 'accomplishment' could there be than that???

Now, I'll never shoot the numbers of deer that you do, so maybe my perspective is a little different; I get two (archery) buck tags a year and - basically - as many does as I can stack in a heap. The limiting factors are the size of the freezer and my appetite for playing meatcutter. Strictly speaking, I can't honestly 'justify' taking even a single buck a year, because that's not what the herd really needs. On the other hand, "Hi. My name's Matt and I like antlers". You're not gonna wreck the gene pool by taking this or that buck and I'm not going to save the world by taking only does. Besides - arguably, you do the most damage to the gene pool when you only take the biggest deer.....

All said, I've kinda promised myself not to pick off any more 1.5 YOs and - honestly - one buck a year is enough. Not that a 'personal best' with a bow is going to be at all hard to come by ( :rolleyes: ), but a good deer for the area is a good deer for the area and nothing to be ashamed of.... even if it's nothing to beat my chest over. :D

I don't get to hunt as much as I'd like, so chances are real good that I'll focus on does for my freezer-filling requirements and - knowing me - I'll also take the first 2.5 YO or better that offers me a good, clean shot. And of course, that leaves me with a second buck tag in my pocket..... just in case. :cool:

'Cuz like Dave said - you only shoot the biggest buck of your life once; it'd be one thing to take a 'personal best' with a bow and then top it by a margin you can spot at 50 yards... After that, Fate can do as she will. But I'd sure feel like a schmuck sitting up in my tree with a coupla runts in the freezer and no buck tag in my pocket.

[Wismon]

I'd shoot any legal deer I jolly well felt like shooting. Personally, I'm not interested in "growing" deer as though they were prize rose bushes...all for someone else to shoot anyway, as things will likely play out. Besides, how can you be sure that it measures 130 and not 155 unless you put it down on the ground where you can measure it? My free time is precious to me and if I'm out hunting I prefer to get results.

[Bob S]

If you're serious about 'QDM', then cull the 'poorer' specimens if you feel the need, and let the 'promising' ones walk until they get big enough to satisfy whatever criteria suit your fancy.There is no reason to cull bucks in a QDM program. QDM is about age, not antlers.

[DaveHawk]

And Genetics

[GF.]

There is no reason to cull bucks in a QDM program. QDM is about age, not antlers.

In the larger, ideal world of wildlife management, I'm totally on board with having a goal of a balanced sex ratio and age structure within a herd, but..... Do you really mean to tell me that in a badly overpopulated area which needs every possible bit of herd reduction, you wouldn't use a perfectly good shot opportunity to 'cull' a 3.5 YO 5-point with lousy conformation and poor mass when you have 1.5 YO 8-points walking around with comparable inches?

[Twanger]

I believe it's been proven (but I can't cite the study) that you cannot affect the genetics of the herd unless you're operating in a high-fence enclosure.

So what you're left with is simply allowing bucks to get older so that they can be all that they can be. That's not an unworthy goal.

I'm constantly faced with the issue of having to shoot 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks for deer management purposes. Killing does is far more effective for herd reduction, but bucks DO eat bushes too, and one less mouth is, well, one less!

Herd reduction and QDMA objectives are not always perfectly aligned.

[ncboman]

I find QDM an interesting topic for entertainment but generally leave it to the ranchers.

Three years ago the farmer that farmed next to my hunting property killed 60 deer and 2 bears in one peanut field over that summer. qdm ... :rolleyes:

[dave-t.]

Yikes! I know guys that would go ballistic over a neighbor like that.

[Bob S]

Do you really mean to tell me that in a badly overpopulated area which needs every possible bit of herd reduction, you wouldn't use a perfectly good shot opportunity to 'cull' a 3.5 YO 5-point with lousy conformation and poor mass when you have 1.5 YO 8-points walking around with comparable inches?I would harvest a 3 1/2 year old because it is 3 1/2 years old, irregardless of antler configuration. Nature doesn't manage for antlers, only hunters do.

[ncboman]

Yikes! I know guys that would go ballistic over a neighbor like that.

Several of us took a more reserved tact and the farmer lost the lease. ;)

[My buddy]

It may sound simple but, any 100-110" (or smaller) deer you kill this year wont be any bigger next year.

You hunt an an area that is relatively sheltered from hunters, other than peers in your group. If you can convince the others not to take the younger deer for just a few years there will be plenty of large deer in the area.

Killing only does can effectively manage the area.

Let the bucks grow to be a reward for the management efforts of the group.