Question for the Missouri hunters

[45seventy]

I have a question for the MO guys, but anyone can jump in and offer an opinion if they like. I've decided to hunt a conservation area here in MO this year. For the MO boys, it's in Franklin CO, about 6 miles north of Sullivan, called Long Ridge CA. Anyone familiar with it? I scouted it a bit today, and the trails are pretty well marked. The regs on the area are: bucks only and the 4pt antler rule on 1 side applies. The area is about 1800+ acres. I guess my question is this: What would be your gut feeling about this area since it is bucks only? Franklin Co has a lot of deer, so I'm just not sure why the bucks only rule is enforced. Maybe not so many deer on the area? Buck to doe ratio out of whack? Just curious about this. Any and all comments appreciated. Thanks.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Wildlife Biologists are funny sorts. They spend their days tramping around in the woods tagging stuff, collecting bugs, counting flowers, and building wood duck boxes. Everything gets written down and recorded for posterity from deer densities to field mouse age to sex ratios. after all the data is aggregated and disaggregated a couple of times they come up with a plan. Most of the time it's a good plan and is backed by science. Sometimes the plan is to satisfy an agenda. And once in a while it's just sorta like Bubba saying, "Gee, I wonder what happens when you push this button?"

I've known a couple of these guys, they live in a different world. Sometimes I wish I could live there!

I don't know that anyone can tell you why a 1970's method of deer management is in place in that particular conservation area (whatever that is). Maybe the conservation department can tell you.

Alan

[ncboman]

The best big buck hunting I've ever enjoyed was where the 4pt per side rule was in effect (Illinois).

Kinda small on acreage but how long has the rule been in effect there?

[45seventy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think the 4pt rule has been in effect for a few years there. One of the other MO guys would probably know better than I. I've done most of my hunting in IL. Interesting that you say call the conservation dept Alan, I did do that, and some chick on the other end said she didn't know what a deer density was, or how to find out for me. I may try again, and hope for a different person and a better response.

[ncboman]

You should find out who the regional bioligist is and have a chat with him.

One walk thru the place in mid-Oct should tell you all you need to know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/ncboman%209%2021%2009%20Roanoke%20Bertie/92109RoanokeRiverwetlands022.jpg

:)

[Bill Gunn]

Wildlife Biologists are funny sorts...... And once in a while it's just sorta like Bubba saying, "Gee, I wonder what happens when you push this button?"

I've known a couple of these guys, they live in a different world. Sometimes I wish I could live there!


Alan



To get to the level of the NYS DEC I believe it would take near a lethal dose of LSD lased with PCP (from the 60's OR 70's :rolleyes:)

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

nc, don't you just love to find things like that. It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Imagine the intensity required to do that to a tree. It's a good thing deer don't hunt hunters.

Alan

[Sidekick]

I'm not sure why it's bucks only. I've got the Missouri regs in my hand and it shows a portion of Franklin county in the early urban doe only rifle hunt. It also shows the same portion in the antlerless only late season so I'm not sure why they would restrict does altogether except for maybe it has something to do with Franklin county only having one antlerless tag available where most of the rest of the state has unlimited over the counter antlerless tags. My cousin lives in that county close to New Haven and there are deer everywhere. It's also one of the best counties in the state for turkeys. You should have a good hunt. The 4 point rule has been in effect for a few years now and is really starting to make a difference. Nice bucks are becoming commonplace.

[dave-t.]

I've hunted Franklin co, Washington, and Jefferson Co where I grew up. I haven't hunted there recently, but deer populations have exploded in that part of the state.

There was a big snafu about the unlimited doe tags and smaller Conservation Area lands. Especially those within 90 minutes drive of the big cities. Hunters tend to shoot everything they can when they have a pocket full of tags, and before the 4pt rules went in to effect.

I haven't seen squat about this CA, but I bet the any deer bow tags are legal, but for gun hunting, buck only. That particular CA probably got slammed the first year or two of unlimited doe tags.

The public land near my father inlaws place had the same thing happen. First year of unlimited does, 17 deer taken in a 660acre or less area. Not worth hunting for the next 3 years.

If the Conservation Dept sees reports, or does some field research on these particular CA's is where you get different and unique regulations for each property. Its great management normally, but a big obvious problem has taken place or it wouldn't be under unique rules, imo.

I don't know at what time or year, but I'd bet a big stack of deer were taken on that place, and this is the plan to still allow hunting while growing the herd on public land. Depending on the stage of population recovery, it would be great hunting. It could also be a sign that they expect more hunters than deer there during gun season.:o That's just speculation.

The CA I used to hunt as a kid is now bow only for deer. That place had as many turkeys as you could hope for back then. I bet it holds some decent bucks now. MDC, always messing eith the rules.;)

[45seventy]

Again. thanks for the replies. Sidekick, there are a ton of deer in Franklin CO, I think it was the top county for deer killed last year, so you are right there should be lots a deer around. The area itself is mostly wooded with ridges and steep valleys, but the surrounding countryside has a lot of farm fields and creeks. One would think deer would filter in there. Dave, that would make sense about that place getting slammed. The MDC has a lot of CA's around the area and most of them have the bucks only rule. Another one I looked at was the Daniel Boone CA (3000+ acres) in Warren CO, that too has a bucks only rule, and I think Warren borders or is close to the MO River. There are tons of deer in that neck of the woods. So, it does seem kind of strange what the MDC's mindset is. I would call the local biologist, but I heard on the news last night, that the MDC was closing the regional office in Sullivan due to budget considerations. Thanks again for all the responses.

[dave-t.]

My grandad owned a nice place around Sullivan and Cuba. I grew up hunting there, but that was when deer populations were very sparse. Seeing deer on grandads 175acres was a big deal. Doe tags were limited special draw only, and turned you buck tag into an any deer tag. Turkeys were everywhere.

Jefferson Co was the same way, very few deer. From what I hear now, the deer have all but taken over. I have a buddy with 40acres of family land that we used to spot light in high school just to catch a glimps of deer, he says where there used to be 3 deer 15-20yrs ago, now there are 25+.

[Hi Ball]

Dave-T, there are more deer in counties like Jefferson and Franklin than 40 years ago! Some area's hold more deer than others simply because of food source. I have a friend that lived on 650 acres out in St. James, Missouri for 15 years and I had as many deer in my bottom field come sundown, as he had in all his fields put together. He and his brother are selling the place and he is moving back towards the city.....wife misses the shopping malls!!!:eek:

[dave-t.]

He must not like trout fishing.;)

St James is a beautiful area. I wouldn't expect big bucks there consistantly, but it would be a neat area to hunt.

[Hi Ball]

Dave-T, I save my trout fishing for the mountain vacations! The catching of Trout at St. James is no big deal to this fisherman and I don't like standing shoulder to shoulder with others who don't know how to cast or fish off the bank.

Now Jefferson and Franklin counties do have some nice bucks but don't be looking for those Monster's you see hanging in the trailer going around the USA with record racks ok. However, there are some very nice looking 140 to 160 class deer in that area. You won't see any 300+ pound bucks but there are good 175lb and 200lb bucks out there to harvest. ;)

[45seventy]

Hi Ball,
A 175-200lb buck would be big enough for this 'ol boy'.
Getting em out the steep stuff could be a strenous project.