Who makes a real good longbow??

[GF.]

Funny thing.... As soon as I got out there Elk hunting with the Contraption, I was wishing for a tradbow again. Especially with that fast-moving cow, and the fact that even at about 25 paces, she seemed a long ways out there... I've seen a lotta Elk a lot closer than that, so maybe my tradbow max shooting distance isn't as limiting as I thought :D

And of course, that damn Contraption is just an anchor to haul through the mountains all day...

I doubt I'll be able to make it happen for a coupla years at least - shy of selling off some other weapon, anyway - but just fer sumpin' ta think about while sitting in my treestand this fall....

Any idea who could build me a fast, R/D longbow with a fairly well centershot riser and good 'goes where you point it' performance? I'm thinkin' Dedicated Elk Rig, so probably in the 65-75 pound range, since I'll want to shoot at least 3- and maybe 4-blade heads , and I want 'em at least pokin' out t'other side.....

[Hi Ball]

G.F.*** I would contact Black Widow out of Springfield, Missouri. I don't know if they are making long bows anymore but I would start with those folks.

[Greywolf]

Turkey Creek

[GF.]

Haven't heard o' Turkey Creek... They new?

I was thinking about the options....

There's a guy who used to work for G.Fred at Bighorn and who went out on his own... His shop is in the same town as - or nearest town to - the little patch of riverbotom where I first learned to hunt and where I went with my first-ever archery tag, and where I missed my first shot. If I can track him down, it might be some kind of good bowhunting juju to carry a bow made right there where it all began for me :cool:

And Ben Graham makes some real good bows over at Hummingbird; Squatch was real fond of his work.... Maddman and I shot one one day (one of Squatch's, actually), and it was a pretty sweet little shooter

Fedora sure has a great rep, too, for building a hard-hitter that shoots right where you're looking....

Kinda funny to read the Cabela's catalog and see the performance claims... The cheaper the bow, the more likely you are to see something like 'this bow shoots 180 fps!'... Yeah..... with an unspecified draw length (let's guess 30 inches and up!), probably a mechanical release and oh, yeah, did we mention that 5.5" brace height?

As if the feeps are really all that important in instinctive shooting.....:rolleyes:

[Greywolf]

GF,
they are all nice. Not too many dogs in that market, looks-wise.

i shot a Turkey Creek that had carbon in the limbs, and it drew like a twenty and shot like a forty.


here's a link:
http://www.turkeycreeklongbows.com/images/tcllogo.jpg

[GF.]

Priced the Widows, just fer grins.....


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

The Turkey Creeks seem like nice bows, but there's always that sketchy feeling when you deal with a bowyer who hasn't gone at it full-time just yet.

Some of them have to be just as good as anybody else out there, or nobody could ever make that jump, of course, but those guys are usually pretty easy to spot. They're the ones who'll buy the bow back from you if your custom work of art shows up and disappoints you in any way....

[Hi Ball]

GF.......YOU only get what you pay for and that covers must items in this man's world.:D:D:D

[GF.]

Yup, but sometimes you do pay for the name. A small factory with a lot of high-tech equipment, a full-time staff, and a very considerable marketing budget don't come for free, either....

It's all rolled in.....

And there's nothin' that a zillion-dollar CNC machine can do that a good hand can't accomplish with a few simple tools, yet by the same token, there's no substitute for a good hand applying the final touches. You can get real close dimensional tolerances with CNC, but working in wood? You'll never get the tiller just right if you leave it to the machine.

So really, apart from the volume they can produce in a week, the biggest difference between a bow from BW or any other factory and a bow from a one-man shop will come down to the design of the limbs & riser and how well the grip fits the hand and shooting style of the individual.

There are no patents in the tradbow industry at this stage in the game :D

So I have little doubt that there are a lot of small bowyers out there who can build a bow just as fast & just as smooth as a Widow... Or better.... And for somewhere between 1/2 & 2/3 of the price... if you were to buy new & custom-built.

It's just a matter of finding a bowyer with a good rep and evaluating the individual bow.....

I think if/when I get serious about this, I might just take Widow up on their 'test drive' option, though. I don't expect that their bows would be noticeably 'better' than any number of bows from good, small shops, but I suppose if I were to shoot one and decide that nothing else would do, then I guess I'd have my answer :D

[My buddy]

While I shoot a Widow recurve, I have never really been fond of their longbows.

I purchased a Martian Savannah the first year they came out. I think back then it cost me $400. For the $$$ it is a great bow. However, I believed that they are more expensive nowadays and Im not sure it would be my choice if I were in the market again. Used they run around $300.

I have a John McCullough Griffin longbow that I really like. He makes an excellent bow and his prices are very reasonable.

Being that you are looking at an Elk bow, with a high draw weight, I would suggest trying to buy a used bow. Chances are you can pick up a high dollar custom for a great price as high poundage bows are hard to sell and typically sell for much less than bows in the 50# range.

Either way, good luck.

[Greywolf]

GF,

I just happen to think of a buddy of mine up the road--making his own bows. He owns and opperates a mill.
A rather large boy, as in "he could hunt bear with a stick" or "eat steak with a snow shovel".

He has passed one or two to me that were nearly finished. There was no way I was goint to draw one of them. He typacly finishes up at #70 +:eek:

Although, I don't think he is quite ready yet, to call himself a bowyer.
I just happen to think of him when "your buddy" posted and mentioned that you would probably want a high draw weight bow for Elk.

Have you ever been a member here?

[URL=leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/lw/THREADSX2.CFM[/URL]

I think I recognised a name or two from this board over there.

[GF.]

I used to post on leatherwall some... Probably ought to get back over there a bit... and probably ought to spend a lot less time posting than I do :o:rolleyes:

I had been thinking about a used bow for exactly the reason mentioned - higher draw weights were The Thing, 15-20 years ago - maybe less - and now that lighter bows are fashionable again, there might just be a screamin' deal out there...

I did come across an ad (on LW, I believe) for a 'big name' 60# @ 26" which has (apparently) been on the market for 3-4 months and gettin' no love. It's a very low-wrist design, though, and I was kinda thinking about an R/D with more of a recurve style grip - call it a bastard if you want, but if I can get the brace height down pretty close to a proper fistmele and keep my high, locked wrist, that should get me a little extra poop behind that arrow.

But that's only a deal if I can still hit with the damn thing.

[My buddy]

Honestly, I'm not sure why you are seeking the bow traits you are.

Seems like you are attempting to get a find a way to turn a traditional bow into a high speed performer. High draw weight, low brace height and attempts to maximize draw length.

Your thoughts on the bow seem like the opposite traits to gain "shootability", which tends to be gained with lower weights, a brace height set to "tune" and a draw length that is determined by a shooting style that you find comfortable and accurate.

IMO a bow that can be shot comfortably and accurately is much more important (and deadly) than one that is fast or powerful.

I guess I just don't understand your reasoning behind your wants.

[GF.]

Elk.





:D


But seriously - are you reading the same thread here that I am :confused:

I think I've said about 3-4 times that I'm not obsessed with speed and that shootability is the key, but then again, there's no need to shoot a bow that's a real dog just to get it to hit where you're lookin'....

My most comfortable and most accurate style of shooting just happens to be high-wrist. YMMV, but point your finger at a spot on the wall and tell me that you do it low-wrist....:rolleyes:

High draw weight is only high if you can't shoot it well. I just happen to be geared for drawing a bow - always have been. And it's not like I'm trying to be Howard Hill or anything. I don;t need to draw my own body-weight to feel manly, but half of it doesn't strike me as totally unreasonable.

A lower brace height is somewhat less forgiving, but the longer the arrow stays on the string, the more push you get out of the bow - and the heavier the arrow, the more critical that becomes. Longbows are generally designed for a lower brace height - which makes proper tuning at that brace a whole lot easier - so that seems a natural enough choice; and pairing it with a relatively high-performance limb is a bad idea because....:confused:


And what's so evil about a centershot riser? Easier to tune and more forgiving, no?

Get down to it, and what I'm looking for is something that will blow a hole through an Elk's boiler room at 25 yards, not spit a grouse at 40. So yeah, there are trade-offs, as there always have been and always will be. The trick is to know which ones you're making and why.

[My buddy]

I guess to each his own, but there are plenty of people that are blowing through that boiler room with 45#'s.

Either way, good luck with it.

[GF.]

Maybe things have changed in the past 10 years, but I've never heard of anybody using a #45 on Elk - not seriously, anyway. Maybe if there are physical limitations, OK, but....

Are you living out in Elk country? Your profile doesn't specify, but maybe you have a whole bunch of Elk-hunting buddies to compare notes with... The guys I was in camp with last month were shooting #55s almost apologetically, and using 2-blades to improve their hopes of a pass-through....

I suppose a heavy enough arrow will do the trick with a 2-blade if you get a short shot on a good broadside, but JMO, that's sort of like taking a .243 :eek:

Granted, I was using a chisel-point head, but I found that my old #55 Hunter was just adequate for deer, throwing a 550-grain shaft at a plenty respectable speed... I think I clocked it one time at about 185 fps, but I can't swear to the accuracy of that chrono. Honestly, I don't think the Bighorn is a fast as the Hunter, despite the Bighorn being set up with a fast-flight string and the Martin being built only for dacron; but the 'horn is a lot more shooter-friendly; draws easier, points better, hits tighter. So no, maybe it's not as fast, but it's clearly the better bow of the two....

Anyway, Elk are tough enough that I'm more comfortable with the idea of a 4-blade than a 2, and I want a by-damn exit, thanks. Last year, my brother zipped a 2-blade clean through the lungs of a cow Elk - hitting high, unfortunately, but with real good blood on the arrow - and she tottered of after a lengthy stare-down, never to be seen again :(

Adding a bleeder would have done (theoretically) twice the damage internally (so let's say 50% ;) ) and would have provided a much bigger exit wound for that all-important leaking to occur. Hide & (especially) muscle can easily close a slit type of wound, but once you cut into it with 3rd or 4th blade, the natural elasticity of the hide and the contraction of the muscle fibers can't help but open things up in one direction or another.

And of course you stand a far greater chance of getting the lungs to collapse when air can get in through the wounds (which clearly never happened on the animal in question and is much less likely to occur without an exit). That doesn't guarantee recovery, but it's not going to hurt anything, either, so I'm really of the 'shoot the heaviest bow that you can shoot well' mindset.

[GF.]

Funny thing.... I was just browsing the classifieds on LW, and I didn't see but one 75-pounder that anyone was looking to unload... Lots of lighter bows, though, so maybe the fashion has turned to lighter bows than my little tiny 'crowd' has turned onto yet.....

Didja ever get that feeling, though, that people are always happy to brag up their equipment when everything goes exactly according to plan, and they just conveniently shut the hell up when they have bad news that they could be reporting instead? There's a whole thread devoted to kills with bows that you might call 40-somethings... but they're all deer, and not real big-looking ones, as a rule....

One bruiser in there, but you never really know when you're looking at a blind hog, do ya?

[Otter]

GF - Here's a link to a place that has a list of many longbow/tradbow makers/suppliers. Can't vouch for any of them personally, but have heard of many of them (in other words "I ain't got a dog in this hunt") -
http://home.att.net/~sajackson/archery.html
Scroll down at the first screen and start looking.

I have 2 longbows and a half-dozen recurves. One of the longbows is a "Lofton" and the other was made by my son. The recurves are Shakespeare, Ben Pearson and Herter's.

[LeeInSC]

I would look for a used one, first of course.
Any top longbow is not going to be cheap.
I have shot a Jeffery longbow that belongs to a woman, with 35 pound draw - very smooth.
Owen Jeffery, age 82, shoots a 54# longbow, IIRC.
Look on his online shopping page, and usually they have photos of game taken with various bows.
$550.00 range, custom built to your specs.
http://jefferyarchery.com/main/longbows1.htm

[GF.]

Lee - thanks t=for the link. Looks like nice work, and they've got to perform pretty well if an old-timer like Mr. Jeffery can cleanly kill a 400-pound hog with a #49 bow. But.....

You may think me a snob for saying this, but I'd prefer not to buy a trad bow from an outfit that recommends shooting off of an elevated rest. There are a lot of guys around who have picked up recurves in recent years and who are very happy to call themselves tradshooters despite their use of sights and rests, and.... well, that's up to them. But I like shooting off the shelf so much that I guess I wouldn't be likely to buy a bow from a bowyer who wasn't absolutely convinced that that is the One And Only Proper Way to shoot. Fanatics tend to sweat the fine details that can really add up at the moment of truth...

[LeeInSC]

I think Tom Jeffery will build a longbow just about any way you want. They have tons of molds and forms in their inventory.

I think his shop built some of the laid up longbows that looked like wood, used in the movie, "Last of the Mohicans".

Owen Jeffery was the designer for Fred Bear and other traditional archery companies. He designed the Kodiak, Kodiak Magnum, and target bows. IIRC, he was coach of the women's Olympic team long ago. He, his wife and son Tom are all former national field archery champions.

[GF.]

Don't doubt you (or them!) for a moment, but the critical item on a tradbow - for shooting off the shelf - is the damn shelf.

And I think it works its way through the whole design of the bow. You think about it, and aren't the limbs going to be tillered precisely to the height of the rest? You can't shoot as well as Mr. Jefferey knows how to shoot if you haven't put a ton of thought and attention into the details, and I'd imagine that sliding your nock point and rest a half inch down the string from the point at which the tiller is meant to be could really complicate the tuning process.... And they basically say as much on their site, just without getting into the details...

[LeeInSC]

I don't know if any of you fellows live close enough but I suggest making the trip to the Cloverdale Traditional Archery National Championships.

I went 15 years ago for the first time and had a blast. If you camped in period tents and wore period clothing, you could camp on site. There were American Indians in teepees, with their flat bows, Germans and French in medieval tents with longbows and ladies in waiting.

You would get to see and handle more bows and tackle than you can imagine. I met bowhunters from all over the world, and we swapped info and even swapped a few trips to places none of us would have ever known about.

http://cloverdalenationals.com/

[Rattus58]

Martin Longbows are always a good choice and my current Viper from Martin is no exception... http://www.damonhowatt.com/bambooviper.php

Aloha... :cool::beer:

[AK-49]

try howard hill archery http://www.howardhillarchery.com/

[GF.]

Fun to see this thread coming up again....

I was looking for a Helle knife blank and came across Dryad bows... anybody familiar with those???

Some nice-looking work, and I like the bow blanks that they sell for a lot less... just gotta get a few of your own damn fingerprints on the bow, which has a certain appeal.....

[8mmrem]

Check out Frank San Marco in New York, not cheap though