Broken Arrows?

[GF.]

In camp. I was shooting my 3 remaining 'old' arrows at a rotten aspen that I stood up across the meadow. Turned out to be right on for my #3 pin, so I was looking at about 38 yards.

Dopey me - I elected not to buy a coupla Judos at the shop I stopped in to when I needed to replace my kisser button, but I'd already ordered some (sent to the home address) and had paid $3 less for them, so rather than dropping the extra $8 to have them now, I went without.

And lost an arrow, of course....:rolleyes:

The next arrow to go down was on a direct hit. I had gotten 4-6" of penetration in this same log on the previous hits, but this one was a pass-through, and when I picked it up, I noticed a definite crack in it. Which reminded me of some high-speed video of direct-to-bone hits I had seen on some broddhead manufacturer's site, and sho' 'nuf, they were splintering their carbon shafts on a fair number of the hits.

I gave it the bend&crackle test, but honestly didn't have the nerve to bend it far enough to hear anything... I considered parking it high in a tree there at the camp, but - having laid myself open with the broadhead just a week before - didn't dare shoot it even that one last time, so I ended up salvaging the nock & point and pounding it down a bore-hole that some beetle or grub had left in a rotting stump.

Now, given the hazards of carbon fiber splinters, I'm not real keen on getting a handful while dressing out an animal, but I was just curious... How often have you guys broken an arrow inside of an animal? For wood or aluminum, hell, that's just part of the hunt, but with carbons, I'm thinkin' that might be really unpleasant, so I'm still considering hunting with aluminums out of the Contraption... at least for next year.

[dave-t.]

Only happened once. It was a non-event. Never saw any evidence of carbon fibers.

When the arrow broke it was at the ribcage of the deer. It wasn't like the arrow was down in the tissue/muscle where a splinter could get lost. There has to be a contact point or pressure point for them to break, and that is longer odds in the soft tissue.

I will also say that I had a knock end splinter on me, and caused a miss on a deer here a couple years ago. I was not at all happy about that. I had checked my hunting arrows, and it was just a hairline crack that I couldn't feel. Sent the b-head sailing wildly. :mad:

The old Carbon Express design had a real weak point at the knock ends. If you hit one in practice it basically trashed the arrow wether you could detect the damage or not. They have since redesigned the arrow's knock end.

[Twanger]

Carbon arrows are highly reliable. Far more so than aluminum arrows which can be bent slightly, something you might not notice, but fly wildly.

I've never had a problem with carbon arrows. Out of 4 bow kills this year I've had one arrow broken in an animal. Sometimes I'll kill ten in a row without busting an arrow.

[GF.]

OK, so as a high-volume shooter..... ;)

You said you broke 1 outta 4 this year? What didja hit, and what was the splinter situation?

And 'ten in a row without busting an arrow....' Sometimes.... :confused:

So what's the long term average for breaking shafts? 10%? 25%?

I guess I'd like to know (again!) what you hit and whether there was any concern about the shafts splintering into the meat or just posing a hazard to your hands during the field dressing.....

You're right that alumalogs can screw you if they're just a little bit bent, but that's what an arrow spinner/tester/inspector is for, right?. A guy who shoots aluminum and doesn't spin test each arrow before every hunt has got to be asking for heartache.....

[Twanger]

OK, so as a high-volume shooter.....

You said you broke 1 outta 4 this year? What didja hit, and what was the splinter situation?

And 'ten in a row without busting an arrow....' Sometimes....

I'll get runs of 5 to 10 before busting a carbon arrow.

Sometimes if the arrow stays in the deer and it falls over the arrow will get broken. The other case is when you apply a finishing shot to a deer from a tree-stand while it's laying in the ground. The arrow typically goes through the deer into the ground and the deer can thrash and break it off. Once in a while the deer will run past a tree with the arrow sticking in it and bust it off.

Shot two deer four times last night. One was on the ground at 25 yards and needed a finisher and I rushed the first finisher - and it hit two inches lower than I wanted. I was VERY careful with the second finisher as it was my last broadhead. :D Perfect shot that time. No arrows were broken. :)

Once the killing starts I will shoot through all of my broadheads if the deer gives me a chance. I want the deer down right now and right there. No good having "shoulda coulda" after the fact. No good taking a chance to see if it'll fall where I have permission to recover. I want certainty. Spare blades are not all that expensive.


So what's the long term average for breaking shafts? 10%? 25%?

I'd say about 15% chance per shot.

I guess I'd like to know (again!) what you hit and whether there was any concern about the shafts splintering into the meat or just posing a hazard to your hands during the field dressing.....

They seem to snap off relatively clean for me and usually not way inside the deer, as far as I can tell. Never had a problem field dressing except for the very occasional broadhead on 3 inches of shaft found in the deer. Gotta be careful about that. Probably happens about 5% of the time.


You're right that alumalogs can screw you if they're just a little bit bent, but that's what an arrow spinner/tester/inspector is for, right?. A guy who shoots aluminum and doesn't spin test each arrow before every hunt has got to be asking for heartache.....

Spin testing? We don't need no steenkeen spin testing (with carbons) :D

[dave-t.]

I guess I was asking for heartache all those years.:o:rolleyes:

I had more aluminums get damaged in deer than carbons, by far.

I think you're about as likely to get cut by a hidden healed over b-head in a deer as a carbon fiber from an arrow that you've shot and then was broke somehwere along the run and flop.

It always pays to be aware, but this situation...long odds...;)

[GF.]

I have no problem with long odds against getting hurt :D

But to Twang's point made on other occasions.... You can shoot an arrow to make sure it flies right, but with a spin-tester, you can spot some things without even getting to the range... That can save a fair amount of time & frustration....

And if you drop your bow or bang your quiver on the way through the woods, aluminum can bite you at the worst possible time.

Probably just my suspenders-and-a-belt way of thinking about things, but it always seems like the bigger the deer, the greater the chances of something going screwy.....

Some of those old boys get big because they're smart, but I swear some are just plain damn lucky.... As if Murphy his own self had decided to be their guardian angel....:rolleyes:

[ncboman]

Once the killing starts I will shoot through all of my broadheads if the deer gives me a chance.

:D

+1

The few carbons I've seen break shooting deer, broke clean, outside the animal.

What ruins most of my carbons is hitting something hard and fracturing the fibers right behind the front insert. I examine closely when such a hit occurs.

[GF.]

Makes me think of that thread in which Herne says to give 'em one and call it done....

But then again, I think it depends entirely on the size of the parcel you're on and how far you are from the property line. Down but not dead, I'm right with ya - and here I'm thinking in terms of a spine hit, as opposed to something where a follow-up shot might just motivate a wounded animal to walk/run away. I kinda got the hard lesson on that last season with the poorly-placed neck shot when I almost pushed him off the whole property....

Woulda been better off getting back into the stand for another hour or so....:rolleyes:

But when property lines aren't an issue.... :confused:

Honestly, on Little Bro's high-hit Elk that stuck around wondering what had happened.... Hmmmmm....

I guess, since he could see that the hit was high, and that she wasn't going down in a timely fashion and she wasn't bleeding very hard, and that she was still inside of 20 yards, well, yeah, given the opportunity....


But man, I think if I it looked and felt like a reasonably good hit and the deer was stopping out there where the shooting lane might be getting cluttered and the range was uncertain..... I'm thinkin' I'd give it time & space to shut down quietly. Unpressured, the animal should seek out the nearest patch of cover and hunker down right there, no?

I guess everybody has agreed that on a muscle hit, you want to push 'em as hard as you can, and maybe that's what I should have done on the neck shot, figuring he'd bleed out quicker that way.... but then I'm almost certain that he would've made it off the property.

You guys with rangefinders might have another take on it, of course. If the binos say the lane is clear and the rangefinder says you can group into six inches or so....

[dave-t.]

We're not market hunters, and nobody is going to hear us shoot twice. If you get the chance for another shot on any questionable hit, shoot again. In my opinion, what is an ethical shot swings far the other way on a hit/wounded deer.

Not much downside for even a rookie taking a 60yd shot at a bad angle on a wounded deer, imo. If the situation is already jacked up, one more arrow in the deer isn't making the situation worse, it can only make it better.

[Twanger]

If you get the chance for another shot on any questionable hit, shoot again. In my opinion, what is an ethical shot swings far the other way on a hit/wounded deer.


Yep. I put a second arrow into a deer at 50 yards this year... in behind the diaphragm and out in front of the shoulder. The first arrow was low-heart, clipped it with one blade and dumped some lung material on the ground. That was a dead deer walking, and she was bleeding out in big puddles, but she was still standing after 2 minutes and the second arrow certainly speed up the process. It's amazing to me how long a deer can stay on their feet with a 1-1/8" hole drilled through their chest. :confused:

I would never take a 50 yard shot at a deer that didn't already have an arrow into it even though I'm probably about 50% in the kill zone at that range.

[dave-t.]

Wow, great shot.

I figure if it happened to me I might get lucky and put a killer shot into it's ham.:eek::rolleyes:

[ncboman]

good shootin Walt. :)

most followup shots aren't about distance.

... most are about shooting in an excited state at an animal that is thru brush/limbs or won't hold still. :D

[Twanger]

Yes, that is the truth. A scrambling deer at 10 yards is harder to hit than a stationary deer at 50.

If you spine a deer behind the front legs you can have quite the moving target on your hands. They will spin all around and even crawl on those front legs. They can crawl from 20 yards to 50 yards leaving you with a real sketchy long bomb. That's why it's better to shoot early and often. No "waiting to see" what's gonna happen. (Interesting side-note: They teach cops essentially the same thing. You don't shoot & look & then shoot some more, you shoot and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized. You assess while you're shooting)

Spine one between the shoulders and they fall over pretty well and don't move so much, but may still need a finisher.

[GF.]

We're not market hunters, and nobody is going to hear us shoot twice. If you get the chance for another shot on any questionable hit, shoot again. In my opinion, what is an ethical shot swings far the other way on a hit/wounded deer.

Not much downside for even a rookie taking a 60yd shot at a bad angle on a wounded deer, imo. If the situation is already jacked up, one more arrow in the deer isn't making the situation worse, it can only make it better.


I don't question the ethics of follow-ups no matter how good the first shot; I just worry about the unintended consequences....:D

If the first hit is at all questionable, yeah, do. That's why I took a second on the neck-shot buck last fall. I either tagged him in exactly the same spot as the first hit or missed him entirely....:rolleyes:

(And where I hunt, a lotta people are gonna hear you shoot twice if you're using a firearm, and that's bad for business, access-wise, so that was actually a high-risk choice on my part:eek:)

I'm just skittish about a DDW and bumping it onto the neighbors' place when it might otherwise hang around long enough to go down where it stands; tiny parcels and patchy access create a different set of considerations, but I guess if it's still on its feet by the time I can get off a second aimed shot, well, I suppose that oughtta tell you right there that not all went well with the first... :rolleyes: