Bad Billy!!!

[Hi Ball]

Now yesterday I had to dispatch a real mean billy goat! I was going to use the rifle but thought I would find out more about this .40 cal Smith & Wesson caliber I am now carrying as a CCW weapon. It is loaded with Speer 155 grain Gold Dot Hollow Point ammo.

I first had visions of putting down "Old Billy" at 25 yards, but changed my mind and got closer for the sure kill. Now one does hear a lot of BS on this internet no matter what the subject seems to be. I wanted to get results of just how good a Stopper and Penetration of this new Glock-22 using "self-defense" loads. ;)

This goat was shot at 15 feet standing broadside! The bullet stuck the front shoulder, the goat spun around quickly as the second shot was fired. This shot hit him in the loin area with little affect. I then walked up and put a round in it's head. This dropped the goat killing it on the spot. However, neither of the first 2 shots exited the animal. I would NOT call the .40 cal Smith & Wesson a STOPPER ROUND nor would I opt to hunt or shoot a whitetail deer with this caliber. :eek:

Hunting deer with a handgun starts with a 10mm and goes on up the scale. I myself like the .44 magnum for such pistol hunting of whitetail deer. It gets the job done. The .40 cal Smith & Wesson is opt to leave a hunter with a sad look on their face.:(

[LampLighter]

I carried a Smith 4043 as a backup & off duty weapon. I really hated it. I shot a doe with it and she ran off. It was marginally accurate. I always thought it was a bs round for law enf. The FBi developed it from the 10mm after the 1986 Miami shootout. I traded my Smith 4043 a week after I quit the force. Traded in in on a Ruger Blackhawk 7.5" Stainless.

[Just a Hunter]

Guy's

With no disrespect I suspect your probably expecting to much from a pistol cartridge.

It's not out of the ordinary for a deer to run after being hit with a rifle cartridge with far more energy than that of a standard pistol cartridge so why would you expect the results to be any different?

If you will visit this website you will find that in gellatin tests most common cartridges used for self defense is designed to have a penetration of apx 13inches. Go look for yourself and you will notice that with a common bullet the penetration of a 9mm, .40S&W,357Sig and 45auto all have a penetration of very close to 13inches.

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/testing/testing.aspx#

There not designed for excessive penetrate less they become a hazard to the innocent's that may be beyond the target or in the next house.

These are not cartridges that have ever been marketed as hunting cartridges, nor will they ever be. These are pistol cartridges designed for the purpose of self defense.

We would all like to feel confident that what we carry for self defense can stop with one shot, but if you cannot guarantee a 300Win Mag will drop a deer immediately then why would you feel confident a 9mm, .40S&W,357Sig and 45auto would?

Trust me when I say there is basically one of three things that will lead to a quick death from a gun shot wound.
You need to either disrupt the function of the circulatory system, nervous system or a combination of the two. If your shot fails to accomplish doing this then dont be surprised if what your shooting at dont remain on its feet at least for a little while.

[Bushman]

About how heavy was the goat? If a .40 S&W won't do it well, I bet that you are not feeling too good about the 9mm's either. If you could get 13" of penetration, I would think that you could get an exit from a .40 S&W on a goat as they must be thinner than a deer and the average deer is only 11" through the chest area. I've read that goats are a good test animal though as their bone structure is close to that of a human.

[rimrock]

speer gold dots in most weight expand well and are good choice for personal defense , especially in a 10mm loaded to higher velocities than the 40s&w can reach, but if you want penetration a hard cast bullet , over a stiff charge of blue dot in a 6" aftermarket barrel does an all together better job

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/401-200-bb.jpg

http://guitarsalon.biz/10mm/

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=942

Ive yet to have a deer or hog get far, its slightly better than a hot loaded 357 mag with 158 grain loads, or a hot loaded 45acp with 230 grains in my experience but not up to a 41 or 44 mags results, pass thrus are common but not guaranteed (use 50% Linotype and 50% wheel weight allow with about 5% tin added) and bullets expand slowly and don,t loose weight

[Hi Ball]

Bushman the Billy Goat weighed in at 95-lbs on the hoof! I am NOT impressed with the Speer Gold Dots or the .40 caliber Smith & Wesson round. However, I was impressed with my Glock 20 (10mm cal) and it's 180 grain bullet. I shot clean through a 2 inch rough sawen oak plank and 2 pieces of 3/4 inch plywood behind that board at 20 ft. The bullet went into a big maple tree some 2.5 inches. I am going to shoot another goat, soon as the next Bar-B-Q comes around.

[Bushman]

:eek:Best not have anything too important behind that next goat with the 10mm. You and Mrs. Hi Ball obviously spend a lot more time on the range than most people who are packing these days, but most people can't handle a 10mm. I was watching my video of various handgun bullets into gallon milk jugs and sure enough, a 185 grain .44 Magnum vaporized it. Not much in my wardrobe will hide a S&W M629 though. How good is good enough?

[Hi Ball]

Bushman and others! There is "self-defense" ammo out there today, such as Pow-R-Ball that will penetrate and is designed to FRAG apart later NOT causing an exist wound in the "mugger or attacker" etc. Yes, a FMJ 180 10mm round will keep on trucking through things.

This ammo is available in 9mm Luger and .40cal Smith & Wesson too. It is rather expensive to the tune of $27 to $36 dollars depending on caliber. The bullets have a plastic insert in the hollow point, which makes them feed much easyier in auto pistols. The 9mm Luger round has 1350fps and 483-lbs of kinetic energy behind it Bushman. It makes a believer out of those who think the 9mm Luger is NOT enough!!!