GLOCK 45!!!

[Hi Ball]

Well folks, I got the wife to drive us to the range yesterday and I tried out my spanking new toy!;) :D Yep, another Glock in the form of a 45acp. It is the model 21-SF (slim frame) and it holds 13 of those fat 230 grain cartridges. It also has the new ambi magazine release, which gave me problems at first but after 100 rounds put through the pistol, all was well and the magazine dropped everytime I pushed the button know matter what side release button I pushed.

The accuracy of the Glock was top shelf!!!:) :) ;) The recoil was less than my Kimber 45acp's. I managed to shoot several groups on paper into 3.5 & 4inch groupings, this was for the first 50 rounds with Blazer plinking ammo. I am sure this pistol will do better after the break in period of 300 rounds. All the rest of our Glocks seemed to fair better once they had a few hundred rounds sent out the barrels. This GLOCK really Rocks N Rolls em folks!!!:D:D

[Badger]

Hi Ball,

Congradulations on the Glock 45. My only Glock is my old duty gun, a M19, 9mm that has seen lots of use. I agree with you the .45 ACP is a fine cartridge.

Badger

[Bushman]

How would you rate the recoil from the new .45 ACP to the 10mm Glock?

[Hi Ball]

Bushman

[Hi Ball]

Bushman, the recoil of the 45acp in a Glock pistol, is more of a push than a sharp jab! However, neither of them bother me as far as recoil goes ok. They both don't come close to the recoil of a .44 mag in that respect.

The 10mm is more versatile and a very flat shooter verses the 45acp! I now carry the 45acp, with the 10mm doing backup, if I should need to shoot further downrange etc.

I find the recoil of the 45acp in a Glock, is somewhat less than recoil with a 1911 model handgun in my humble opinion. One would think that an all steel pistol would retard felt recoil as opposed to a Poly Gun which is lighter, but , the Glock just seems to iron out the recoil better and distribute it over the entire hand (full grip) verses the 1911 model.:)

[Hi Ball]

Badger Bill-T. and I are trying to get the stock up on GLOCK lol....;):D:D:D
I think between the two of us, we could outfit a couple of squads of ranger's.:D

[Bushman]

Did you ever shoot bowling pins with a handgun? I don't hear about those bowling pin shoots so much like I use to, but I know that the .45 ACP was always preferred over the 9mm's and the .40's because of knock down power. I wonder how the much faster 10mm, still being a .40 would do in a bowling pin shoot out against a .45 ACP?

[Hi Ball]

Bushman the 10mm would not have any problems I dare say! It is around 400 fps faster to start with according to the manuals, when using the 180 or 165 grain bullet. You can shoot 200 grain bullets out of a 10mm also. This would be a plus over the 165 or 180 grn bullets.

Speed with a 200 grn would be in the area of 1200fps MAX!!! The 45acp with 230 grain hardball (what most pin shooters use) has a velocity of 850fps......Now with the 200grn bullet, it flys around 950-fps.

Years ago, those that shot a lot of bowling pin matches kept their 1911 loaded to around the 750 or 800fps velocity. It help control muzzle jump somwhat and faster recovery too.

[MOGC]

Match shooting with the 10mm would be a losing deal, too much recoil and too slow to recover for follow-up shots. You don't need all that extra whompass, it is just too much of a good thing. Hummm... I wonder if that could be a consideration for self defense use also? :)

[Bushman]

I just ran the 10mm against the .45 ACP using the Taylor Knockout Formula. That is caliber x bullet weight x velocity divided by 7000.
For the 10mm I got 1059.43 and for the .45 ACP I got 1315.93.
That said a bowling pin would be more wounded by the .45 ACP than by the 10mm. Okay, I know that the Taylor formula was designed for big solid bullets for shooting African game, but why wouldn't it be applicable to shooting bowling pins with a pistol too? A bowling pin would be more affected by a larger frontal area than by velocity right?

[Hi Ball]

Bushman, my findings are somewhat different than yours and I will print what I am using in this Taylor formula.

10mm, 180 grn wgt bullet, velocity is 1250fps!!!

Now .40 x 180 = 7200 x velocity 1250 = 9.000.000 divided by 7000 = 1286!!!

However, velocity does count for more than just a formula's calculations on paper. If you look at the pisture of he 10mm bullet striking the Geletin block at AR-15.com verses the 45acp doing the same thing, you will see without a doubt, which bullet does the most damage and has the most penetration.

Now Bushman lets take the 10mm (.40) x 165 bullet weight = 6600

6600 x velocity of 1425fps = 9,405,000 now divide this by 7000 OK!!!
9,405,000 divided by 7000 = 1,343.57 So know the truth really comes forward especially when using the 165 grn bullet weight... It is the hammer of THOR my friend. Compare the figures again my friend please!

[Hi Ball]

MOGC......I don't have any problem with recoil shooting my 10mm Glock pistol!
There is not much difference between that 10mm in recoil than the .45acp Glock in recoil, due to the design of the pistol for a fact. ;)

I have shot steel plates with my Glocks and I can tell you right up front, that it takes much longer for the 45acp to get to the plates than my 10mm Glock. Now what I may lose in muzzle jump (not much) I more than make up for in the speed of the bullet getting to the target. :eek: :rolleyes: :)

[MOGC]

MOGC......Now what I may lose in muzzle jump (not much) I more than make up for in the speed of the bullet getting to the target. :eek: :rolleyes: :)

Wow... I'm thinking on that one. :confused:

[Hi Ball]

MOGC........Now what is to think about MO? I can shoot and move to the next target a lot faster with the 10mm Glock than the 45acp simply put. ;)

Now go set up some bowling pins and shot them with a 10mm caliber, then pickup that 45acp and shoot the rest of the pins. Also let me know if that 10mm didn't dispose of those pins harder and faster. :)

[Bushman]

I am reminded of my buddy with the .270 who was loading 90 grain hollow point Sierra bullets for varmints. One day we were just messing around out in the country and we thought it would be fun to see what that bullet would do to a dried out old fence post. Range was about 5 feet and we expected to see the post really splintered. Wrong, very little expansion at all and just a hole through the thing. A bowling pin being hard maple I would think would inhibit expansion the same way that post did with the .270. Gelatin would promote expansion and velocity and that gelatin medium would favor the faster 10mm.

For my Taylor formula comparison I used the muzzle velocity out of the 2006 Federal Ammunition catalog which shows the 10mm 180 grain bullet from a 5" barrel at 1030 muzzle velocity and the 230 grain .45 ACP with a 5" barrel at 890 muzzle velocity. I'm not familiar enough with the 10mm to know if they offer a 165 grain load now commercially, but I didn't see that one listed in my 3 year old catalog. I know that you are loading for both cartridges and chronograph your loads and they are right up there for velocity. Do you see any pressure signs?

[Hi Ball]

Bushman those figures I gave you, were from DOUBLE TAP AMMO CO. in Montana OK. You or anyone can go to there sight and see the reports on various bullets, velocities etc. You can go to "Agtman's 10mm Pistol & 5.56 Combat Carbine Sight" to get the tests they ran on the 10mm with Double Tap Ammo. A very interesting sight for those that wish to keep up with what is what in the Combat or Defense side of things.

I washed a program on the Outdoor Channel last week, were they were testing the 10mm in the 180 velocity is 1330fps, 165 velocity 1425fps and 135 bullet weights. The 180 gave the best penetration, 165 was next and both bullets stayed together and mushroomed very nicely. However, the 135 grn. bullet did fragg somewhat and did not penetrate near as deeply.

The guy was shooting through a metal freezer, 1.5 inch oak board and bullets ended up in a 5 gallon container full of dirt. The 180 & 165 did very well in the test! I personally do NOT load my 10mm Glock to the specs of Double Tap Ammo Co.,

I like the 165 grain bullet because of its velocity and flatness of trajectory. Along with staying together after stricking tuff objects. I keep my 10mm 165 grn. loaded cartridges to around 1200fps. This is fast enough and will take care of all I need to handle with a 10mm Glock.:)

If I had a KIMBER or DAN WESSON in the 10mm caliber, I would NOT be affraid of loading those pistol to a MAX LOAD but with the GLOCK or any other Poly guns, I am a little reluctant to do such a thing Bushman.

[billt]

Ahh yes, the Glock .45's! What more can I add? Bill T.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1416/glock1w.jpg

[Hi Ball]

Bill-T. now those are some impression little plastic pistols that will save your arese when the Crap hits the fan you bet. I now have the model 21-SF in 45acp and it keeps company with my model 29 in the 10mm caliber. You know the one the FBI should have choosen in the first place.;):):D

[Hi Ball]

MOGC......Now I don't carry a 10mm to show my wares to a bunch of LEO'S trying to become more proficient in shooting matches with their issued handguns. No! I carry my 10mm to make damn sure my arse does not end up on the short end of the stick, like several others in past years, who still think the .38spl or 9mm Luger is going to save their A$$'s in a jam. I like the odds in my favor simply put. In case you don't know, the 10mm does twice the terminal damage as a .45acp.

I don't need to carry a 45acp that has a single stacked magazine either! My Glock 21-SF carries 13 rds, this is a big plus in my book. If you don't like the Glock pistol just say so, I write a letter to your department and try to get you something else that is more to your liking but it is going be very hard to surpass the qualities of the GLOCK, not to mention the durability and dependability as well. :cool:

[MOGC]

I don't mind the Glock, it just ain't what ya'll propose it to be. It isn't some magic wand that is impervious to malfunctions or screw-ups. It's just another gun, like the rest of them. To think anything otherwise is foolhardy. I'm happy for you if that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. 10mm does twice the terminal damage of the .45 ACP... ok. If muzzle energy is all that concerns you why don't you move up like the feller I met yesterday that packed a Ruger Alaskan 2" barrel .44 Magnum with 25 grs. of H110 under a 240 gr. hollowpoint for his CCW weapon? I thought that an "interesting" "CCW" handgun. It isn't my cup of tea, and as said before, life goes merrily on.

[billt]

I don't mind the Glock, it just ain't what ya'll propose it to be. It isn't some magic wand that is impervious to malfunctions or screw-ups.

No, that is not what we are saying. Again I'll repeat myself.

If there is another semi auto handgun out there that is more rugged, and will operate under adverse conditions BETTER than a Glock, I would like to know about it.

And please, don't just name a gun. Provide fact that supports your decision as to why it is a better choice than Glock. Bill T.

[Hi Ball]

BILL-T,............YOU KNOW & I KNOW THAT THERE IS NOT!!! However, some people are just not willing to accept the true facts. They instead hop skip around the issues and throw speers at the Glock production pistol.

I had a guy ask me the other day, in refference to his prior comment of not being able to use the GLOCK as a weapon in hand like a hammer to defend himself against a mugger. "What happens when your Glock pistol runs out of bullets""?

I told him I simply draw the other GLOCK and continue the fight!!!:D His response was: YOU MEAN YOU CARRY 2 GLOCKS!:eek:.....My response was: "YOU DAMN RIGHT I DO!!! ;) :D :D :D

[Hi Ball]

MOGC because that so called ALASKAN is only a 5 shot revolver at best, I don't put a round under the hammer ok. It also weighs a frigging ton to be totting on your beltline.

My Glock 29 is light in comparison and has far more energy than the .40 caliber Smith & Wesson and a bigger hole than the 9mm Luger or .38spl. YES, I agree that anything can and will break down, one reason I carry 2 such vehicles on my person.....most of the time it is GLOCKS. Sometime it is a glock & .357 revolver depending.

The standard GLOCK is NOT as accurate as the Sig Sauer or Kimber but with a little added help they sure can make things even steven in the accuracy department. On the street, one does not need a 2 inch gun at 50 yards! I hope you will agree on that fact. I watched a man pulled off "head-shots" on a target the other day using my 10mm Glock at 125 ft away. All shots were inside the 6.5 inch circle of a 9 inch pie plate. Cheer's & stay safe!!!;) :D

[Doug S]

Hi ball,

Do you carry two Glocks in case one breaks, or is it because one might run out of ammo befor you hit you target?

Just Wondering..

Doug..

PS...LOL

[Hi Ball]

Doug S.........I don't mind answering your LOL question one iota!~:rolleyes:

Now I just don't believe in having to reload in the middle of a gun battle savvy! I been there and know the feeling is not good.

Once had a confrontation with a Greek 4-sum in East Chi-town several years ago. I carried a Colt 45 model 70 back then with a Colt revolver called a Python.

The warehouse turned dark except for a couple of car lights inside and it was hell on wheels trying to reload once the ball was dropped if you get my drift. My side-kick and I made out ok that night. I won't comment on the other people involved. I learned that a mugging on the street is one thing but an all out gun battle is a horse of a different color. We earned our money and got pats on the back from the main man rest his soul.

DOUG S. You sir don't know what I carry and neither does anybody else, just something else for you to chew on. A one gun cowboy doesn't last long on the range, remember that fact.

[Dennis Keith]

J.W. Hardin carried two in case one broke. Metallurgy has improved, but like the Boy Scouts teach, BE PREPARED. At work I'm allowed one. with as much back-up ammo as I can pack.

[Bushman]

One gun beats none gun. Not being a bad guy, I sure can't imagine the mind set of a criminal if the victim would produce a handgun and the perpetrator wouldn't think that finding a new fresh victim wouldn't be a better idea. Then if a shot was fired, just one anywhere, wouldn't that change his mind? I realize that these guys were probably not the class valedictorian, but they must certainly realize what a bullet could do to them.

[MOGC]

One is none - and two is one is my thinking. When on duty and working an assignment I always pack a second handgun concealed. Maybe that way I can get to the shotgun and/or rifle I keep in the car! Cops and military personnel must go in harms way, it is what they do, and so being prepared is only good sense.

The average citizen packing a CCW and leading an ordinary lifestyle using good sense to avoid bad areas, thinking tactically, and going out of their way to prevent a “situation”, carrying two handguns is probably overkill. But hey, I’ll support their right to pack a pair of cut down automatic shotguns stuffed down both trouser legs if that is what makes them feel better.

Bushman, you are trying to think too rationally about this. The mere presence of a handgun has prevented untold numbers of bad situations. However, nobody wants to be a statistic in the wrong column. Drunks, dopers, gangbangers, and mentally affected people do not think like that. Another old saying that makes perfect sense is to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Then you probably won’t be let down.

[Hi Ball]

Gentleman our society today is the worse it has ever been on the street believe it or not!!! In my area alone there have been close to 60 banks robbed so far this year......now just think about that for a minute ok. It tells you something is not going right.

The murders and muggings have both skyrocketed according to the stats taken as a whole by our Law Enforcement people better known as the FBI. It pays to be prepared and I do mean having a CCW permit gun on your person.

Now when I was a kid, people in the inner city left their doors unlocked and kids as a group could go from one house to another with no problem and mothers who stayed home (back then about 85% did) kept an eye on what was going on with the kids of the area. Those days are long gone!

One must lock everything and keep things light up at night also. Never leave anything of value in your automobile, that can be seen from the outside or it will be history on any mall parking lot.

This country of the U.S.A. just has far to much CRIME and most is attributed to DRUGS!!! This sets the stage and our laws are far to Liberal...Amen! Yes, I am in favor of the death penalty for anyone selling DRUGS period. To hell with this cozy place we send criminals and color TV watching, costing "Tax Payers" thousands of dollars just to keep them locked up.

Convicts need to be placed at hard-labor as back in the 40's & 50's. Public hanging's would not be a bad idea either for our younger generations to wittness. It sure would put the brakes on would be offenders and I know it would change the crime stats a bunch. We have today, a "Run-Away-Society" in as much as crime is growning by leaps and bonds, prisons are over croweded and officials are letting many out early just to make room for incoming numbers. A poor way of fixing the problem!:eek::mad: :mad: