Better grab the Nomex boxers....

[GF.]

Every once in a while, it's good to stir up a little debate ;)

So here's the question: If you have access to some huntable private land, is it really... What's the word? Sporting? Appropriate? Ethical? "OK"?... to hunt public areas as well?

Here's my thinking: In my very limited experience with it, the public-land hunting here in CT just plain SUCKS. And the harvest stats bear that out. We have so little public hunting land that the 4-week shotgun season is split into first & second halves, with permits limited by lottery such that hunter density cannot exceed 1 gun per every 20 acres in any given management unit. Firearms hunters average 15% success in shotgun 'A', 5% in 'B', and - I kid you not - 3% in the 4 weeks of ML that come on the heels of 'B'. And all of those stats are for either-sex tags, with no antler point restrictions of any kind (no wonder I got skunked when I hunted that one!).

So the pressure on these public areas is incredibly intense. Meanwhile, private land is in a critical state, totally overrun with deer.

So if I have access to any good private land, am I doing the right thing by either the herd (which needs thinning on private land and all the help it can get on public) or by other hunters - those who don't have private land access - if I get out there and hunt the public areas during bow season?

On the one hand, I love hunting off the beaten path, where there is some solitude to be had, and that virtually rules out private land. But speaking for myself, I'd say it's just plain Not the Cowboy Way to make things any tougher on the public-land-only guy than it already is, because next year that might be me, and I wouldn't appreciate any unnecessary competition if I were locked out of any hunting on private dirt. Especially coming from a guy who has got it awfully good because he does have some private access. And thinking as a guy with some background in wildlife biology, it just seems almost criminal to take a deer off of public land if I have a chance to get one off of private instead.

What say ye?

[southtexas]

Sounds to me like the best thing you can do is enjoy yourself on the private land and do your best to reduce the herd as much as you legally can. Dirty work, but someone has to do it!:)

[Twanger]

I covet my chances to get out on public land with the muzzleloader, even though 90+% of the deer I kill are taken on private land with a bow.

What is fair?

Hard to say. Fair has so many dimensions.

Is it fair that I have to hunt the same area that the young guys do who have strong muscles and great eyes? Maybe I should get some kinda help... they have to walk in, while I can ride a 4-wheeler. That would make it more fair for me. Maybe there should be a special rule for everybody. How about paved paths and ramps everywhere so that wheel-chair bound people can hunt too?

I beg the question of course, simply to show where 'fair' can lead.

No, I'm very happy to hunt (or not) on an even playing field with the same rules that those with greater physical prowess also hunt.

Anyone with ethics, motivation, and a willingness to work can join me and hunt the private land areas on which I hunt. Our group can't kill the deer fast enough, and we need the help. It's hard work though... stomping around neighborhoods all summer in 90-degree heat instead of spending the day on the lake with the family. Hauling in feeders, cameras, and corn. Checking them every week, making repairs. Dealing with anti-hunters who try to shut us down, and poachers who want to use our hunting spots, and hunters in the group that are there to take advantage, lie, and work as little as possible but still show up during the rut and kill a nice buck. Private land hunting is no bed of roses.

In some ways I actually yearn for the days where I only hunted public lands. It's so easy and simple. All you have to do is show up.

[GF.]

Fair’s fair, Twang. Same for everybody. Does NOT mean handicapping, as in a horse race. A level playing field means the advantage goes to the guy who brings the most to the game, and each one rises or falls entirely on his own merits.... and since this is Hunting, then maybe some good old fashioned dumb luck thrown in.:D

If God made you nearsighted or short of arm, that doesn't entitle you to optical sights or a crossbow so that you can see as well as the eagle-eyed or launch arrows at the same feeps as a guy with a 32" draw. That'd be like my playing basketball against a guy 6'6" and claiming the game is only 'fair' if my hoop is at 8'2", because the basket would then be at the same percentage of each player's height. Using a standard, 10' hoop, it might not be much of a contest, but it's perfectly FAIR.

So what if there are younger, fitter guys out there these days? 25 years ago, you were one of ‘em. You had your shot then – not their fault if you wasted it ;)

And I’m only sayin’ that ‘cuz I know you didn’t :cool:

[Twanger]

Yes, GF, I agree 100%. Fair is fair, and handicapping is probably a bad idea... hence my comment about begging the question.

I believe the same applies to private land. Should we somehow make it up to the guy who has not got the money (to buy) or the energy (to get permission) to hunt private land? Should we penalize the hunters that do have the money or energy to get themselves access to private land? Sounds a bit like Obamanomics... let's tax the hell out of the guys who worked hard and made something for themselves and give it to the deadbeats! :eek: :confused: It's a prescription for demoralizing those people who work hard.

I know a guy who just bought 300 acres of prime county land so he can hunt and live there. Maybe we should ask him what he thinks about the concept of forcing him to allow some deadbeats to hunt his land because they are somehow disadvantaged? (I think I know the answer...)

[LE]

Simply put, I don't see any problem with where you hunt. Just keep it leagal, do it ethically and enjoy your time there. If you don't like it don't do it again.

[GF.]

To be absolutely clear.... I would NEVER advocate forcing any land owner to permit public access private land. I don't even have a problem with the CT retrieval laws which allow a landowner to prevent a public-land hunter from picking up his deer once it has crossed onto the private property. I do have my issues with the landowner appropriating the animal when the hunter was being reasonable about where he was set up - or letting a good animal rot under any circumstance - but public is public and private means private.

And the guys who think they have any control over access to public lands just because they have a grazing lease or other type of permit chap me just as bad as those who would trespass onto private.


But look at where I hunt, for instance. It's a large piece of private land; almost as big as you can find in this part of the state, really, so it's not like I do a whole bunch of deer control on 1 & 2 acre plots in the 'burbs, shooting them over bait and wishing I could get out for something closer to an actual hunt. So I've got it awfully good in those years when I get my access, but it's almost deer hunting hell on the public spots around here. I don't know - maybe I'd be better off working closer to the edges of the private areas?

Anyway, when I've got it good, I don't see any point in making life any harder on the public land guys unless I'm willing to go back so far into the boonies that I'm never going to bother anybody anyway (not that's easy to do in state forests which close at dark!). It just seems a bit like game-hogging, in a way...

One thing I'm still trying to figure out, though....

Last year, we sold 13.3k archery tags and had a 25% success rate, statewide, which is even with firearms, statewide, and only 8 points behind private-land firearms. But less than 500 deer were bow-killed on public land, so I have to wonder .... How many public-land bow-hunters go for years at a time without so much as taking a shot?