View Full Version : Deer Hunting words of wisdom
Twanger
10-23-2009, 05:33 PM
So how about sharing some of the deer-hunting words of wisdom with everybody?
I can think of a few...
1) Aim small, miss small
2) Get close, pick a spot
3) Hunt up in the clean air (I'd say hunt high, but it's too druggy sounding)
4) Hunt with the wind in your face and the sun at your back
5) Hunt trail intersections, but not on them
I'm sure there's a ton of pearls of wisdom that would be useful to the beginning hunter...
Whatcha got?
Altjaeger
10-23-2009, 06:48 PM
Only heard this one once, and it really applies more to rifle hunting but here it goes. During a discussion of chest vs neck shots back in the early 1960s the old black man that leased the grazing rights on my Uncles deer lease asked, "Why shoot at a hoe handle when you have a whole bucket?".
LampLighter
10-23-2009, 07:37 PM
leased the grazing rights on my Uncles deer lease
I wouldn't want NO cattle on my deer lease. I'd run them out of town.
Rembrandt
10-23-2009, 08:15 PM
Big racks are just a dream if you persist in shooting young bucks......."let em' go so they can grow"
Altjaeger
10-23-2009, 08:42 PM
I wouldn't want NO cattle on my deer lease. I'd run them out of town.
Well in Texas it is the landowners decision. It is not uncommon to lease hunting rights and then also lease grazing rights. The hunters have the option of not entering a lease if they do not like the terms or situation.
Cattle are really not a great problem at reasonable levels. Now you are wasting money and effort if goats are there.
They can't be too big of a problem, or they wouldn't make these....
http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/158362_ts.JPG?cell=320,320&cvt=jpeg
Man, if you can't handle hunting around cattle, you've just put most of the West off limits for yourself...:confused:
Anyway, advice-wise.....
Focus entirely on what you're shooting at. Not antlers or appendages. I totally missed a deer when one of her hooves caught my attention. I made a hell of a shot on the moving hoof, though. I think the fletchings brushed it, so it's a good thing she stopped it suddenly while arrow was in-flight.
Be practiced up to where you know exactly what your confident range is and stick within it. If you doubt your ability to make a shot, you WILL have a train wreck. This is a matter of confidence, not cockiness; and confidence comes only from drilling until you can make the shot on auto pilot. So then when it's time to shoot, you can focus on focusing, not on form or questioning the range or whatever other distraction (like a moving hoof, say ;) ) is going to ruin your whole day.
And know the ranges to all of the usable landmarks around your stand long before any animals show up. If you have to wonder about the distance when it's time to shoot, your confidence will be compromised. I didn't register it until it was a moot point, but I had no idea what the range was on that cow; had no idea which pin I needed to use. Had she stepped out and given me 3 seconds to make the shot, I would have wasted the whole window of opportunity just panicking over whether to use the #1 or #2, when in fact - at that range and on an animal as big as a cow Elk - either one would have been perfectly adequate had I simply chosen a pin and held it center-vitals.
One other item that I think is especially useful to a pin shooter.... and maybe especially a newbie like me... :o
Deer vitals are wedge-shaped, and while top-o'-the -heart shots are great for a quick kill, the double-lunger a few inches off of the shoulder is a more forgiving target in terms of range estimation errors. I tend to hold more into the heart, and enough of my shots on my deer silhouette target would end up in the spine that I've realized that the deer and I will both be better off if I shift my point of aim back 4"-6".
Twanger
10-26-2009, 08:35 AM
Good thoughts GF. To follow up your thought a little, it's also better for the hit to be high and back vs. low and back.
Deer hot high and back often expire quickly, but deer with low and back gut shots linger for many hours.
Thought of another one...
The first time you hunt a stand location is your best chance at a big buck.
Mature bucks have seen it all and have zero curiosity about human scent or disturbance. They will just go elsewhere.
High & Back vs. Low & Back ...You're right about that one, too.... My first deer was high - just under the backstraps, really - & probably as far back as I'd ever care to be, which is about halfway between the rear edge of the shoulder blade and the rearmost limit of the lungs. Same horizontal placement but close to the belly line, and I would have had a potential mess on my hands.... As it was, he passed out mid-stride within probably 100 gravity-assisted yards....
Man... Shot placement is just so dang critical, that you kinda start to wonder if the only good advice is to make sure they're just too dang close to miss....:rolleyes:
Anybody have a good system for recognizing when an animal is actually quartering-to a bit, rather than basically broadside? I've been tagged with that one a coupla times over the years, and every time I vow to myself that it'll never happen again....
Twanger
10-26-2009, 01:29 PM
Anybody have a good system for recognizing when an animal is actually quartering-to a bit, rather than basically broadside? I've been tagged with that one a coupla times over the years, and every time I vow to myself that it'll never happen again....
I've been tagged by that too, and I think the only practical insurance against that is to stay close behind the front leg and shoot a heavy poundage bow and heavy arrows with a small broadhead (i.e. maximize your penetration capability)
Now, by 'small' broadhead.....
Actually, the 3:1 L:W ratio seems to penetrate best, no?
I think my 100-grain Stinger 4-blades are going to be up to the task, if I can just get a hold of my landowner and get the forms signed.....
Don't know whether to follow that with a :D or a :eek:
:confused:
With my set-up, I think the only thing that would get me into trouble is the humerus, and maybe the head of the scapula, where the mass & dimensions match the H-bone....
But then, close behind the leg keeps you pretty well clear o' that - you'd have to be well forward into it to hit the heavy bones there...
Twanger
10-26-2009, 05:27 PM
By small I mean an unaggressive cutting diameter like 1 inch or 1-1/8 inches.
Big heads lead to trouble due to lack of penetration. Sure they kill like lightening if your shot goes right where it's supposed to, but a mechanical with a 2.5" cut is NOT going to penetrate any part of a shoulder bone.
Don't forget your turnips. That time taken peeling, unwrapping, or whatever to eat that snack is time in stand. Fifteen more minutes in stand mean 15 more minutes you are closer to hitting their peak movement times. Fifteen turns into 30 and 30 into well I'll sit til dark. Some of our younger hunters aren't quite as hard core as we are or used to be. Snacks make even the least likely to stay on stand all evening a little more likely to still be there when the game shows up. They warm you up, make you alert again, and most of all keep you sitting right where you are.
DaveHawk
10-27-2009, 09:03 AM
Who eats on stand, I have enough fat stored up over the year that I can spend some on stand all day with water, or gator-aid one of my Med's for ADHD and I'm good from Sun up till Sun Down.
To hunt and be good at it you have to love the out doors. You need the nature of a woodsman and a hunger to be in touch with nature. With out that your just a hunter.
Read books like 44 Years in the life of a Hunter, The Frontiersman, Life of Simon Kenton. You'll understand what I mean by hunger to be in touch with nature.
You'll never catch me disagreeing with a word against mechanicals :D
Good Lord, man! Hit 'em in the right place with something reliable. Even the slit made by a 2-blade tradhead is going to provide a better blood trail than anything that fails to penetrate the far side, and maybe I'm going dogmatic here, but I just can't envision a scenario where a 2-blade mechanical with 2.25" of cutting edge (because you've gotta subtract for the ferrule!) is going to be a game-changer vs. a cut-on-contact 4-blade with 2" or more (1 1/8" on the main and 7/8" on the bleeder for my dainty, 100-grain Stingers). Yeah, 2.5" sounds like a lot wider than 1 1/8", but asking the 'extreme' width to make up for sloppy shooting only works if your idea of sloppy shooting is being 'off' by less than a half inch.
Oh, sorry... that'd be 11/16", if you wanna be precise. :rolleyes:
And of course, you also have to assume that you get the fully-deployed cutting width for the whole time (or is that 'hole' time? :D ), which of course you don't...
Who eats on stand...[?]
Man, I sure do! Yeah, I realize I'm on the scrawny side, but it is what it is, I guess. I don't believe I have 15 pounds of fat on my entire body, so I'm never more than probably 6 or 8 pounds short of being as lean as a body-builder who's all stripped down for a pose-off... Not that you see a lot of 125-pound 'body builders' in real competition :D
Anyway, if I don't keep the fires stoked with high-calorie foods, I'll freeze out of a tree in no time at all (trail mix is good, with a little jerky on top o' that).
And Hink's right - it's whatever it takes to keep you in the woods. Snacks, a decent book, prayer time, transcendental meditation... A cup o' coffee...
In my case, it's most often more about staying warm than anything else, so I've found isometric exercises to be good, because they can work you pretty darn hard without requiring a lot of movement. In the climber, for instance, I usually keep the seat quite low so that I can do a 'wall-sit' - femur a shade above parallel to the ground with all your weight on your feet and against your back on the tree, then hold it for as long as you can. Just make sure your foot platform's not slippery.
And that your safety harness is on properly.
:eek:
DaveHawk
10-27-2009, 09:50 AM
GF I could stand to lose 30 pounds. I find that for the short time of a days sit that I fast Liquid only. I also find that my awareness is higher to all sounds and movements. Ever try t find that pesky Chipmunk in a wood pile that sounds like he is 30 yards away when actually he is only 10 and staring right at you. There are so many things to keep your attention during the law of no movement.
Twanger
10-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Staying warm and well fed is the key to staying on stand all day. I agree with the safety harness point - I will often sleep for a couple of hours in the stand during the middle of the day.
GF - About 50% of the time I shoot Rocket Steelhead 3-blade mechanicals. These have a very unaggressive cutting diameter of 1-1/8 inches and have been shown in controlled tests (most notably a Field and Stream article a couple of years ago) to penetrate better than many fixed blade heads. In fact, the 125gr version won their penetration test that included 20-ish broadheads, both fixed and mechanical. I believe the that thin blades will flex, bend or break off if they encounter bone which will let them continue to penetrate. This is not something that you would "count on", just something that might help you if you get into the shoulder. I've killed, ghads, maybe 50 deer with these heads. They work.
I also shoot fixed blade Shuttle T-lock heads. These also work, but I don't feel that they are quite as accurate as the Steelheads.
dave-t.
10-27-2009, 11:34 AM
I've had great success with those also Twanger. If I'm in doubt about what b-heads to shoot, or have trouble getting fixed heads to fly, I go the easy route and grab the Steelheads. That said, I'm glad my Montecs are shooting good this year.
Words of wisdom:
Hunt those perfect days. When the wind is right, weather couldn't be better, food source is solid, etc. When you have more than 2-3 things pointing to good hunting conditions, then drop everything and hunt.
Be low pressure until it is time to step it up a notch, and then go for broke.
Know your hunting land.
Move stand locations at a whim. If you suspect better movement 20 yds or 200yds from where your stand is, move it now.
Don't be afraid to experiement. Even a failure can tell you something that might lead to success later.
Shoot at your first solid opportunity.
Do you recall the specifics of that test??? Biggest problem with controlled tests is that we have to use the heads under totally un-controlled conditions :D
Actually, I seem to recall that Dr. Pope noticed - way back when - that field points had better penetration into wood than broadheads; something to do with how much surface area ends up dragging against the blade.
But that's interesting... If the arrow is going to stop quicker when a COC type of head strikes along the spine, doesn't that technically give them an edge in terms of 'knockdown' potential? :rolleyes:
It's all pretty much moot, though, isn't it? First thing is accuracy. No, scratch that.
First thing is confidence. If you don't trust a head to go exactly where you aim it, it's a bad head. For you, anyway, but you are the only one taking your shot(s) this year. Accuracy inspires confidence...
Next thing is sharpness, no? A good, clean cut on everything you touch, because crushing releases clotting factors. That's probably my biggest issue with chisel-points, all else being equal. Then penetration (which has as much to do with your arrow mass as the design of the head, most likely). Cutting diameter comes in dead last, IMO.
Oh, and one other thing for staying warm -stay hydrated. And if you hafta pee, then climb down from your stand and pee in that scrape you've been watching :D
ncboman
10-27-2009, 01:42 PM
I pee right from my stand. :p
... but I doan have any problem shooting straight down. :D
I guess the hazard in that might be that if a deer comes right in, its body will be hidden behind its head, and there you are directly in their line of vision…. Maybe as they walk away, though.
Funny thing – a guy on another site was asking if he should move his 15-foot stand higher so as to get a lower exit and a better blood trail… :confused:
I figgered he oughtta just hold a few inches lower, but not so low that the hit on the far-side balloon gets fringey. I want a hole through bigger plumbing than that….
Anybody disagree that angling through the chest cavity looking for a low exit isn’t worth planning around? (of course on the other hand, maybe if you’re higher up, the pee hits the ground farther from the tree so shooting straight down isn’t so much of a problem :D )
Twanger
10-27-2009, 04:12 PM
Low exit wounds are nice, no argument from me!
Read books like 44 Years in the life of a Hunter, The Frontiersman, Life of Simon Kenton. You'll understand what I mean by hunger to be in touch with nature.
I was born a mile up river from the mouth of Blue Creek which is 9 miles from the mouth of the mighty Elk where she dumps into the Kanawha. I've hunted the ridges and valleys and everything in between the Elk River and Wills Creek from Elkview to Falling Rock. There's many a tall beech with Hink killed a deer here carved in them and the year if you wanna come down and have a look. Heck, I even went to Kenton Elementary School. I say its good for a hunter with a short attention span to snack.
A man gave me the Frontiersman to read when I was a teenager. I've walked the same ridges he did and I've hunted a lot of the same woods. Sure its changed a bit but its still the same ground. However, I don't have to worry about getting my innards tied to a tree and then sent stumbling off or tied to the ground and have my nether parts blown to shreds by powder charges.
DaveHawk
10-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Hink, good to know you. I see you have the demenner of a strong hunter. Them still are some of the tuffest woods to hunt. I would be honored to take you up on a hunt in the woods Simon Kenton hunted. Did you read the Great and bloody ground ? Eckart sure could put a story together.
ncboman
10-28-2009, 12:03 AM
I was born a mile up river from the mouth of Blue Creek which is 9 miles from the mouth of the mighty Elk where she dumps into the Kanawha. I've hunted the ridges and valleys and everything in between the Elk River and Wills Creek from Elkview to Falling Rock. There's many a tall beech with Hink killed a deer here carved in them and the year if you wanna come down and have a look. Heck, I even went to Kenton Elementary School. I say its good for a hunter with a short attention span to snack.
A man gave me the Frontiersman to read when I was a teenager. I've walked the same ridges he did and I've hunted a lot of the same woods. Sure its changed a bit but its still the same ground. However, I don't have to worry about getting my innards tied to a tree and then sent stumbling off or tied to the ground and have my nether parts blown to shreds by powder charges.
:rolleyes:
where the heck are you talkin about? :D
DaveHawk
10-28-2009, 07:15 AM
NC I have mentioned before about the life of Simon Kenton, F&I war period frontiersman. Awesome read. Hink live in the area that Simon lived and hunted, both animals and Indians.
If I recall correctly they used to explain locations back in those days by where things were in relation to the various streams so I tried to remain in that vein when responding.
As a kid exploring those woods, finding old farmsteads way back in there and hunting that older growth timber and the farmsteads in various stages of transition was a lot of fun. Its hard to recognize most of it today with all the gas roads, right of ways, timbering etc. A lot of it isn't very pretty today.
DaveHawk
10-28-2009, 11:32 PM
Hink Kenton use to walk off his property also but such things as the "Old Oak" located ................, follow the creek name given to a bend with a large double face rock. The knowledge these woodsman had was remarkable. I think that's why I enjoyed the books so much. Lot of wisdom can be learned form the old hunters.
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