Well, color ME stupid!

[GF.]

Took the 'new' bow to my old archery club this morning to get a little 3D practice in before I head into the woods to play for keeps.

And the good news is that My #2 pin is all I really need for any shot I'm seriously going to consider. Shots that look reasonable and go downhill (as from a tree stand are pretty straightforward; put the #1 pin as low as I dare and touch it off.

So here's the not so great part....:rolleyes:

There is a scale there, and my "#70" bow - which has a Bowtech sticker on the limbs which declares that it's a #70, and which came with a 'birth certificate' that says it's a #70... will just barely drag the needle on the scale past the #50 mark. :eek:

I asked one of the guys if the scale was pretty close and handed him the bow to draw, since he told me he'd be able to tell instantly... because I think he shoots a #50, and he said there's no way in the world that he'd be able to roll over a #70. Yup. This bow is a 50. NO doubt about it.

So, considering that the first thing I had to do on this bow was re-cable it (to the tune of $85 in parts) and now it turns out that the guy went to some real degree of trouble to pass it off as what it is most definitely NOT, I'm wondering just how badly I can trash his e-Bay rating 6 or 8 months after the fact, and what good that might possibly do me anyway.

Any suggestions?

[Sidekick]

Can you adjust the limb bolts and make it 70#? They are seldom preset at their max draw weight. You can usually figure about 3 lbs per full turn of the bolt. Make sure both top and bottom limb bolts are adjusted the same.

[GF.]

Nope. This puppy's already maxed. The guy just plain hosed me, unless the poundage sticker just 'accidentally' jumped off of one of his bows and glued itself to the next one over :rolleyes: I had been in a shop looking at compounds at one point and had drawn a few #70s before - with no trouble at all - so when this one felt about like I had remembered a #70 ought to feel, I didn't really look into it.... though I do recall asking the guy who tuned it for me to check the weight, and I guess he just never did.....

The only good thing is that honestly, this bow seems pretty fast to me already, even though (come to find out) I'm probably shooting a whole lot closer to 7 GPI than 5. (Makes me wonder what she'd do at the lighter arrow weight, but the thought of a 250-grain arrow kind of worries me.) And since it's basically too damn heavy to be much fun on an Elk hunt, I was starting to wonder if #70 wasn't kind of overkill for treestand hunting a bunch of not-very-big whitetails anyway. Especially after a couple hours up a tree on a cold day.... So I had actually been wondering if I wouldn't be happier with something a little lighter for deer (like maybe a #60?) and a stouter, but easy-carrying tradbow for Elk.

It really chaps me, though, because in some respects, I feel like I'm at an age where I'm just not likely to wear out too many more items, so I really want the stuff that I've got to be what I really want it to be; and a #50 seems more like a specialty rig than the all-rounder that I had been looking for this set-up to provide.

So I guess I have to figure out how to track down the seller and maybe even give him a chance to redeem himself before I put the word out on him that he's a total P.O.S.

:mad::mad::mad:

[Sidekick]

I don't keep up with all the latest and greatest in bows anymore but it seems odd that 50 is all it will do. Is there a different way of stringing the cable to the cam? I had one like that once. I wouldn't give up on it just yet on the outside chance that there may be something that you're missing. Good luck with it. Have you tried an internet search for adjusting your model?

[GF.]

Does seem odd. I guess that's why he was willing to take a chance and re-label it as a much-more-in-demand #70. #50s were going real cheap when I was pricing out bows last Spring, because well, not many people feel a need to go that light on a compound. Old men, little kids and girly-girls; not Real Men Like Me.

I'm still kind of curious that I was able to convince myself that it had to be what it said it was, but when you don't have a scale to check it with and you've got all the documentation from the factory... well, looking like it's from the factory, anyway. I just chalked it up to being in pretty good shape from all of the years of shooting recurves.

Bass-turd.... Doesn't get much lower than that in fresh water.... Sure wish the guy who tuned if for me had done as I asked when he set it up in the first place. You'd think a shop owner would tumble to there being something amiss, wouldn't you?

[ncboman]

fwiw, I seriously doubt the sticker on your bow has been replaced/switched. Ever tried to pull a sticker and reuse it?

Most likely your cables and string are not sized to exact factory lengths/settings. A ratnest for sure.

think I'd find a like bow (or someone that has one) that's right and take note of the exact cable measurements for comparison. If your's isn't up to specs, I'd contact the manufacturer for corrective suggestions. :cool:

[GF.]

I'm inclined to agree with you , NC, except that this sticker does seem to show some signs of having been diddled with....

Cables should be correct, since I had an authorized dealer do the work, but I suppose I could look into that. If the serial number on the bow appears somewhere other than on that suspect sticker, then presumably, BowTech should be able to clear things up a touch.....

I wonder if there are any measurements that I could make that will tip me off...???

[ncboman]

brace height
axle to axle

... and brace height at the limb bolts.

a to a will probably be most telling if the wrong cables are on it.

[Twanger]

GF - it may well be the string/cable is not the right size.
Several years ago I had the string and cable replaced on my 70lb Mathews MQ-32 and it seemed easy to pull though the lmbs were bottomed. I believe I killed 5 or 6 deer that year with it. I took it to a different shop for a string change and we put it on a bow scale and you guessed it - 55 lb. I was not the monster I though I was... man was that 70 lb bow easy to pull! :D

Turns out the cable length was wrong. So - you might have that checked.

[GF.]

OK, you guys have convinced me :D

Lemme see here... Brace height would be what, maybe a little low of spec? And Axle-t'-Axle would be longish, right?

Not that it's probably going to be that obvious, given the design of the bow. AA might have to be off by only a few mm, I suppose.... And it is possible that the bow was designed for a longer cable, assuming a longer draw mod, and is now acting 'long'

If that's the issue, I certainly hope that it's not been doing any damitch to shoot it 'loose', but holy crap - if I think it's pretty dang fast now, what'll it do cranked up another 20 pounds?:eek: I was thinking on Saturday that it's 'fast enough', but then I got thinkin' about what might be possible; the siren song of speed, dontchaknow.....

And then, too.... If it's not doing any harm, do I dare mess with it at this point in the season?

But one other item... Would you guys suggest that I go to the same shop that re-cabled it for me and have him check it out, or should I visit another BT dealer in the area? The only one I really know of is the outfit that generously offered to charge me $70 (or whatever outrageous amount it was) just to tell me my draw length; don't know as I'd really care to find out what they'd want for an 'expert opinion'....:rolleyes:

Probably gonna have to start with whatever serial numbers I can find on it and maybe a call or two out to BowTech so I know what I'm looking for..... Can't do anything today, though - don't bring it with me to work ;)

[dave-t.]

If it is labelled wrong, you can get new 70lb limbs from BowTech. You shouldn't have to go through it, but it is an option.

I would also suspect cables are the issue. Shouldn't be a big deal to change them, but it should have been the first time either.:rolleyes:

I've been so happy with my 60lb bowtech, that I don't think you have anyting to worry about regarding effectiveness on deer. It'll kill'em.

What I would be worried about is cam timing, and bow damage due too the wrong length cable. I would have thought the timing marks on the cams would have been noticed if you took it to a shop for some of this work, but you never can tell when you leave it to someone else for set up and tuning work.

I wouldn't think that the bow would be shooting 'in tune' with b-heads if there was something mechanically wrong or out of spec with the cable. If it were me and I was set up to hunt before I could get to a shop, I'd hunt with it the way it is and get it looked at when I had the opportunity.

I'd also go with the 60lb setting as an inbetween, before jumping from 50 to 70lb in one swoop.

[GF.]

I thought about that piece, Dave; bumping it #20 at a whack might be asking for trouble :eek: Thanks to you guys, I'm no longer terrified at the thought of adjusting the rest for tuning, so it's not as if I'd be into $75 every time I wanted to dial it up or down a bit.

I doubt that I'd get anywhere with BowTech, though, having bought it second-hand; though maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, if it comes to that. Maybe if I tell 'em I'm nationally-known compulsive poster on bowhunting forums :D:D:D:D



:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:




No worries about penetration as it stands, though.. I walked through the 3D course at the old club on Saturday and missed one target low, resulting in a rock strike.

That was expensive. Stuffed the insert back in about 1.5" and flattened the field point but good.

Anyway, no lack of penetrating power is expected, even at the #50 - especially with those Stingers. Those arrows are moderately heavy, by compound standards, and they do move right along.


And back to the 3D course...Truth is, I missed a couple of targets, but that was the only arrow destroyed until I took just a couple of shots at the last target of the day. It was down-hill enough to mimic a tree stand shot, and long enough that I would have to be highly motivated and feeling real good about myself to take a shot at that range in the field. Anyway, I used my #3 pin and should have used the #2. All good shots, but the one went just over the top and I couldn't find it. So I used the old stump-shooting technique of repeating the shot so that I had more arrows to go find. At one point, I had 1 arrow destroyed and 4 MIA out of the 6 I'd started out with. Found 3 f the 4 missing shafts, but since they went deep into the much and were completely submerged in a bit of standing water, the fletchings are totally shot (unless you guys know of a cure).


Beyond that, though, I did have just a bit of trouble with range estimation; I got more high hits than belly-liners, though. Just makes me wonder about the chances of a meat-hit above the spine. I'm sure that's about as survivable as they get, but that's no excuse for missing and - me bein' me - not any consolation. I would think that a belly-line hit could be a real problem, though, if you were just back of the brisket. Maybe you could get a big enough piece of liver to ensure a blood trail of some sort?

Obviously, the answer is that you don't take a shot that's long enough to screw up, and when I did shoot (for practice' sake) noticeably longer than I ever would while hunting, I still had very few 'wounding' shots. My worst hits were all inside the 8-ring except for those few that were high or low, and once I started 'bracketing' the vitals on those longer shots - #1 pin on the spine, #2 as low as I dared hold - it got a lot better. Very helpful to have those lower pins to align with the foreleg, too. That little trick put an end to the 'farther forward than I'd like' hits, though these, too, were almost 100% in the 8-ring or better...

Sure is a nice feeling to stack 3 shafts into the 12-ring from 3 different yardages...

[dave-t.]

Hitting long builds a lot of confidence.

I thought I was doing good practicing out to 50yds, but when talking with my elk hunting pals, they were shooting to 70+yds and would consider hunting shots at that range.:eek: I was feeling pretty inadequate before Steve stated the obvious...."Elk have a giant kill zone compaired to a deer." Oh yeah.:o

[GF.]

But they can step out of the way of an airborne shaft even quicker.


One other thing about Elk is that they eat a lot of grass. That makes the paunch almost impossible to penetrate, so a well-fed bull is not nearly so desirable a target on a quarter-away shot as one might hope.

And they're not push-overs, either. You saw 2 good bulls that were probably lost by guys who thought that they, too, were 'solid' at 70 yards or more, so how many more get lost every year because somebody underestimated his limitations?

It doesn't even take that, really. I saw the CSO (Chief Somethin' or Other) of LL Bean on a show where he plunked a nice bull right behind the shoulder at slam-dunk recurve range, and they just never saw him again; and I won't forget the cow that my brother shot last year - the one that just walked off and dies somewhere else...

That was one thing about the Elk target there on the course. I took about 3-4 turns on that one, looking at it from a lot of different ranges that seemed somewhere between 'representative' and 'long' compared to the shots that I've had at real bulls over the years. Lotta high, 8-ring hits on the #3, #4 and #5 pins, but the ones that were just under the line kinda had me spooked. I have no idea how well I would have been able to trail an animal that was hit like that. You like to tell yourself that 8-ring means 'Dead', and I do believe that to be true, and better than just 'generally speaking'....

But killing 'em is one thing and finding them is another, some days.

Anyway.... I really do want to get back in over there at the club, if for no other reason than the ability to practice those long, long, ridiculously long shots. I don't know what range my #5 pin is set for, but I do know that I can place my first shot in the 8-ring of a bighorn ram 3D with it when the range is right :D I may not shoot any better than that off-hand with a rifle anymore...

Great confidence builder, and let's face it - 99% of this game is half mental ;)