curious to see your answers

[rimrock]

just a question one of my neighbors asked me.

"if you were hunting a known man killing tiger, back in the 1930s,in rural INDIA, in a mix of thick cover and open meadows and you only had a choice of only two rifles, available,... would you select a powerful rifle , like a 470 Nitro Express.,break action,double that held 2 cartridges(power roughtly similar to a 458 win mag if your not familiar) or a faster firing 35 Remington lever action, that held 6 cartridges?"
and yes youve got a total of 20 cartridges to draw from with either rifle
http://www.chuckhawks.com/35Rem.htm

[MOGC]

Man killers that can weigh upwards of 550+ pounds with a bad attitude included at no extra charge would absolutely get the .470 NE double rifle application from me.

[Bushman]

The .35 lever might be faster firing six shots, but it wouldn't be faster than the double firing two. Give me all the frontal diameter that I could get on a target. And 1930's ammo wasn't what we have today for either cartridge. If I couldn't do it in two, I shouldn't be hunting a man eater anyway or I deserve to be on the tiger's menu. The .35 Remington is a wonderful woods deer cartridge, but I can't say that I've ever seen it recommended for anything much larger than a deer or a black bear.

[ncboman]

I'd rather have a rifle I'm very familiar with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/ncboman%20deer/nice8.jpg

happens to be a lowly 06. :D

[Altjaeger]

Of the two choices I would take the big double.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Yep, in a pretend make believe situation I want the double too. You're only going to get one maybe two shots anyway from what I've read.


Alan

[swamp]

just a question one of my neighbors asked me.

"if you were hunting a known man killing tiger, back in the 1930s,in rural INDIA, in a mix of thick cover and open meadows and you only had a choice of only two rifles, available,... would you select a powerful rifle , like a 470 Nitro Express.,break action,double that held 2 cartridges(power roughtly similar to a 458 win mag if your not familiar) or a faster firing 35 Remington lever action, that held 6 cartridges?"
and yes youve got a total of 20 cartridges to draw from with either rifle
http://www.chuckhawks.com/35Rem.htm

How many professional hunters in africa use lever action rifles chambered in 35 Rem as a back up rifle?

[Twanger]

Given that I'd be heavily familiar with the rifle I chose before taking on the king of the beasts I'd have to give the nod to the double. Two quick shots is all you're gonna get. The .470 takes as while to come out of recoil and is probably more like something you'd use for Buf or elephants. I'd probably want a double in .375H&H for lion. You've got a better chance of getting back on target with your second shot vs. a big slammer like the .470.

But I don't even play a lion hunter on TV... :D

[swamp]

Mark Sullivan has successfully used a 600 NE double rifle as a back up rifle... 1000 grain bullet moving at 2000 fps ( i think) ... that is stopping power... and he does know how to shoot it..

[Altjaeger]

Mark Sullivan has successfully used a 600 NE double rifle as a back up rifle... 1000 grain bullet moving at 2000 fps ( i think) ... that is stopping power... and he does know how to shoot it..

I don't know Mark Sullivan or his age. I do wonder though if he like John Wooters will find himself in later life suffering a detached retina or or problems from shooting something that heavy often enough to be effective with it.

[swamp]

600 NE is nothing i'd want to shoot... but these dbl rifles weigh in at 13 to 14 lbs so maybe they are no worse than a Rem 870 with full house turkey loads...

[rimrock]

so far no takers on the 35 Remington, caliber lever action, ???
I find that a bit strange in that the 200 grain loads in a 35 Remington can easily shoot clean thru an ELK (seen it done) so Id don,t think reaching the vitals on a tiger will be out of the question,and a 35 remington could easily bust a skull, punch lungs etc, and a 6-6.5 lb lever action sure seems like it would be faster to get into action and keep hammering the target with, now Im not suggesting either choice is superior, and its rather obvious that the more powerful rifle might be better as reducing a charge, but you could just as easily find yourself firing at a running target at 40-80 yards as a fast closing target at 12 yards

[swamp]

so far no takers on the 35 Remington, caliber lever action, ???
I find that a bit strange in that the 200 grain loads in a 35 Remington can easily shoot clean thru an ELK (seen it done) so Id don,t think reaching the vitals on a tiger will be out of the question,and a 35 remington could easily bust a skull, punch lungs etc, and a 6-6.5 lb lever action sure seems like it would be faster to get into action and keep hammering the target with, now Im not suggesting either choice is superior, and its rather obvious that the more powerful rifle might be better as reducing a charge, but you could just as easily find yourself firing at a running target at 40-80 yards as a fast closing target at 12 yards

There arent that many tigers roaming my neck of the woods unfortunately... I think many have fallen prey to poaching for their penis parts, and furs a damn shame... I've seen a couple in a wildlife sanctuarys and they are magnificent beasts... http://www.theinsite.org/earth/earth_es_tiger.html

[Altjaeger]

600 NE is nothing i'd want to shoot... but these dbl rifles weigh in at 13 to 14 lbs so maybe they are no worse than a Rem 870 with full house turkey loads...

You may be right about the recoil but at the weightI want a gun bearer!:D

[rimrock]

obviously this is just a mental exercise in logic to some extent as tigers are currently off the normal list of targets and I don,t see them eating enough, hug a tree types, for them to be placed back on the list of shoot on sight varmints, any time soon, but it should prove interesting if you think it thru, comparing the balance of fast fire power with a moderately effective caliber choice, thats fully up to delivering a fatal blow vs harder hitting , but significantly slower rates of fire in a hunting rifle., that makes you limit your shots to almost certain hit ranges, especially when the wrong choice might result in your getting eaten

[Just a Hunter]

http://video.aol.in/video-detail/tiger-attack-safari-elephant/3316820181/?icid=VIDURVENT01

After looking at this video I would proabably be happiest with a AA12 automatic shotgun. watch full video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I think the issue on shooting lions and tigers, at least what I've gathered from reading about it, was the ability of the round to STOP one of these beasts that was pissed off and wanting to show it. A 35 Rem is a formidable round and has killed plenty of big game and would make short work of a lion or tiger but might be a bit less than 100% effective on STOPPING them when they are charging. Less than 100%, I've gathered, is painful.

John Taylor writes that you should wait until the animal is within 5 yards, so that you don't miss, before firing your first barrel. Watch one of those "Charging Lion" videos and think about waiting until that point. Think about trying to hit the animal multiple times before he gets to you, recoil, working the action and aiming, again and again.

I'll stick with the big gun, It's what all the live Lion/Tiger hunters write about.

Alan

[MOGC]

rimrock you need to read some about Jim Corbett and his trials and tribulations in old India with man eating tigers and leopards. Corbett lived a charmed life and had an angel looking out for him on more than one occasion. A .35 Remington isn't even close to a charge stopper for such large tenacious critters. Calmly plinking a tiger through the lungs from an elevated blind is one thing. Wading into tall grass after a stoutly constructed 550 – 700 pound man eater in a foul mood and with a taste for red meat courtesy of careless humans is something else entirely. From the writings of those with real world experience doing such even a classic charge stopper double gun that weighs into the teens and accepts cigar sized cartridges seems like a broken broomstick in the hands at the time of truth.

[Just a Hunter]

WOW,

I just watched the tiger charge link I posted and realized something new.

The Elephant turned to face the direction of the tigers charge, but the tiger was able to jump high enough to clear the elepants head and reach the handler .

A much better video http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7r7k9_tiger-attacks-on-elephant-rider_animals

[rimrock]

Ive read several of Jim Corbett,s books and I remember him using a 7mm Mauser on one man eater, so he didn,t ALWAYS use a heavy caliber

[Hi Ball]

RimRock......To anyone with the proper knowledge as to what a Tiger really is in the wild, your question is simple to answer. However, first I will tell you that a Tiger is fast, strong, very cunning and can weigh upward of over 650 pounds. It takes a big chunk of lead in a large diameter to stop them in their tracks. If they stand up on the hind legs, they are over 7' 6" tall and that makes me look like one of the little people to say the least.

The 470 Nitro Express was a favorite of Peter Capstick years ago and is still today a formidable match for most dangerous game on the planet. The Double Gun offers two very fast shots and even though they are not a magazine gun, can be reloaded very quickly by most, who use them on a regular basis.Now just so others can understand this bit of actual separation in calibers.

The 7mm mag with 175 grain weight bullet has a velocity of 2860fps and muzzle energy of 3180-lbs, with a "penetration index" score of 201. :)

The .470 Nitro Express with a 500 grain bullet has a velocity of 2150fps and energy of 5135-lbs, along with a penetration index score of 909!!!:eek:

The 35-Rem. deer caliber is far less than any 7mm mag in all areas!:rolleyes:

Now to put into reality, what a 35-Remington is to a 470 Nitro Express, is like comparing a fast Chevy S-10 to a slower moving 6 ton truck, when it hits a brick wall. The stopping force behind the 470 caliber is a bunch, not to mention wound channel and penetration etc. I also have never known of any Professional Hunter, that would even remotely conside such a stunt or ever used a lever gun and I am positive if one ever did it would positively NOT be a 35-Remington deer caliber. :rolleyes:

[Hi Ball]

"Gentleman"Jim Corbett was a very good fighter in his day! However, we are discussing another Jim Corbett, who often perhaps did not look at things in the manner of sanity!!!:eek:

The guy took chances or was stuck on himself thinking anything I fire is going to get the job done regardless. Wounding an animal that would go off and die in the wild or perhaps attack someone else later was often the case with hunters in the days of glory hunting Africa etc.:(

[Chuck S]

I'd have to go with that double even though at 69 lbs of recoil mol, it wouldn't be fun. Hopefully that first shot would do the trick as it might be hard to get a second off after bringing those barrles back down. The penetration factor of a bullet with over a Meg of momentum would penetrate the cat from stem to stern no matter what was hit.

[MOGC]

Ive read several of Jim Corbett,s books and I remember him using a 7mm Mauser on one man eater, so he didn,t ALWAYS use a heavy caliber

Then you should know two things from that reading. Much of that hunting was done from tall elevated blinds where the shooter is pretty safe if the first shot doesn't anchor the tiger. The shooter took a clear unobstructed shot with an accurate rifle, took a smoke, had a snack, maybe a nap, and finally then climbed down and got his heavy rifle and waded into the thick stuff on the blood trail. Usually the tiger was given plenty of time to air out before a follow-up was made. There is a huge difference between shooting from that safe elevated position in the clear and mucking around on the ground in head high thickets for big nasty stuff that owes you an ass kicking. The second thing that should be apparent is that Corbett was one lucky son-of-a-gun not to have ended up as a bowel movement on the jungle floor somewhere.

[Hi Ball]

MO-GC.......Nothing like getting the true FACTS out to the public!!!;)
I don't think Jack Webb on Dragnet could have said it better and been more accurate. Bell was another "Great White Hunter" who abused his situation and wounded many animals just to inflate perhaps his ego. :eek: :rolleyes:

[GF.]

Of the two, give me a double in something persuasive. The .35 Rem is a nifty little cartridge, but nothing I'd bet the farm on...

A .450 Bushmaster might do the trick, though....