single cam or dual cam

[swamp]

Seems like there are a lot of both made these days.. matthews now makes both single and dual cams and same goes for bow tech...

so what are the practical pros and cons of single vs dual cams.

[LampLighter]

Actually, I think Bowtech single cam bows wear the DIAMOND label, but they are made at Bowtech.

Two cams, you need to know that there are 2 kinds:

#1 - the cables eventually end at the axle.

#2- the cables end at opposing wheels, or cams- not connected to the bow or axle. This is Bow Tech's Binary cam system. My Alligence has it.

[ncboman]

Seems like there are a lot of both made these days.. matthews now makes both single and dual cams and same goes for bow tech...

so what are the practical pros and cons of single vs dual cams.

I'm no expert on the mechanics or bow design but I notice single cam bows seem to exert a heck of a jerk on nocksets, servings, etc. I never noticed that with dual cam bows.

After shooting both for a number of years, I tend to favor dual cams even though I shoot single cam bows primarily at present.

I be interested in reading the pros and cons also. :rolleyes:

ncboman

[swamp]

my first single cam was a matthews mq1... It was far superior to the hoyt dual cam bow that it replaced. The single cam had a rock solid back wall, shot smoother, no timing issues... I would be hard pressed to get away from a single cam.

[GF.]

Never having fired a single-cam....

IIRC, the big breakthrough that supposedly came with the singles was that they greatly reduced/virtually eliminated the timing issues that were a great source of trouble to compound shooters and a great source of mirth to us retrogrouch types :D

And I think I remember something about single-cam designs providing more level nock travel, but I haven't heard anybody metioning that as a selling point in years, so evidently either the cams have been re-worked in that regard or somebody figured out that if your arrows are spined correctly it's a non-issue...


The nock on 'em, I think, was that they're generally not as fast as a dual-cam. Don't know of any company which has a single-cam design on theior fastest bow model(s), but I've been wrong about that sort of thing before.... :o

Now Bowtech claims that their system completely eliminates the timing issue and their bows seem to be plenty fast, especially given the feeps you can get out of a bow with a relatively generous brace height and a forgiving riser design, and while I don't know exactly how accurate a statement that may be, I'm willing to take it on faith that the binary cam system is as good as anything else out there and better than some, so after that, it really comes down to speed & shootability... And IM-not-so-educated-O, that appears to be more a matter of brace height and riser design than 1 cam vs. 2....


My local BT dealer mentioned that if he had to sum up the advantages of a Bowtech over the 'other guys' in one word, that word would be 'Forgiveness'. Personally, I'd rather have the forgiveness than a few extra fps, because at the range(s) where speed might be important, accuracy is certain to be critical. And you can compensate for speed with a rangefinder.

All I know for certain is that my bow shoots +/- 3" on 1 pin out to 25 yards or so, which is about as far as I have ever needed to shoot from a tree stand. I have no complaints whatsoever with the accuracy of this thing out to 40 yards, and I haven't even put a stab on it yet. So if I can quiet it down a touch with some limbsavers, I'll be happy as a clam.

Not that I have anything to compare it to, mind you :D

I think it'd be interesting to see the high-speed video of a single-cam vs. a double vs. a binary. Those clips I came across the other day show an astonishing amount of motion after the arrow leaves the string, so you can really see the bow shaking itself apart. Seems to me that all that vibration has to come out as noise, so if a single really does put a bigger whack on the system than a double or binary, I'd have to imagine that that translates into noise in addition to the wear and tear, and noise is never a virtue in a hunting bow....

So on balance, I'm leaning towards a dual/binary/'cam and a half' as being the better solution overall, but again, it comes down to the total package, not just wheels & pulleys...

[Twanger]

I have read that given that the bow is in good tune, a dual cam design should have more level nock travel than a single-cam bow. However, if the bow falls out of tune and one cam is moving ahead of the other then this is not true. I have also read that single-cam bows do not fall out of tune as easily as dual cam bows.

I have shot both types of bows and have not noticed a huge performance difference between them. I think they all shoot better than I can.

[GF.]

I think they all shoot better than I can.

No doubt about that... Hook 'em all up to a shooting machine and watch the Robin Hoods stack up :cool:

But I'm nobody's kind of shooting machine, so the question is, how stiff is the penalty when you do make some kind of mistake? :D

I figure with a release, that part of the equation is about as good as it'll get.
Sighting errors are up to the shooter, so hey, pay attention!

So real-world accuracy pretty much has to come down to how much the bow twitches in your hand between the time the trigger breaks and when the arrow gets off the string (and the rest, too, for that matter...).

Your form is still going to be THE deciding factor, of course, but a low brace height means a longer period of time on the string, so any wobbles get amplified. And anything about the grip or the riser geometry that increases your liability to torque will kill you, too. I figure a stabilizer can only be just so big before it starts workin' agin ye....

So I'll agree with you that which bow you shoot doesn't really matter... If you're good enough, you can make any bow look like the First Choice of Champions... Trouble is, a too-demanding bow can take a shooter from average down to poor in a hurry... and the trouble with that is that it's often the less-skillful guy who buys the whiz-bang equipment because he expects it'll fix his problem(s) for him :(

[LampLighter]

So on balance, I'm leaning towards a dual/binary/'cam and a half' as being the better solution overall, but again, it comes down to the total package, not just wheels & pulleys...

I thought I was high tech with my Browning one cam, but when I eventually bought my 05 Allegience, I tell you it is a whole nother world. Absolute no comparison. Total increase in speed, absolute dead quiet without leeches, string stops, puffs, etc. . There is no comparison between the two. I keep the Browning at camp for a backup, in case I cut a string on the BowTech. I ain't driving all around trying to fix a string.

I will never go backwards, and will have more interest in the future in technological advances. Before the Alligence, I always thought " I don't need all that new crap, I put my time in the woods instead of keeping up with Jones." Well, except for time in the woods, I was dead wrong.

[ncboman]

I have read that given that the bow is in good tune, a dual cam design should have more level nock travel than a single-cam bow. However, if the bow falls out of tune and one cam is moving ahead of the other then this is not true. I have also read that single-cam bows do not fall out of tune as easily as dual cam bows.

I have shot both types of bows and have not noticed a huge performance difference between them. I think they all shoot better than I can.

I've read about the dreaded cam timing issue but I've never experienced it nor have I ever seen anyone else have problems with it. Funny, I never heard about it before single cam bows came along ... :rolleyes:

Logic tells me equal forces being applied symmetrically would yield less torque and vibration and likely a smoother launch but I have no proof. Both types shoot extremely well. I have no experience with the binary cam system. :)

ncboman

[GF.]

... I always thought " I don't need all that new crap, I put my time in the woods instead of keeping up with Jones." Well, except for time in the woods, I was dead wrong.

It just depends what you really & truly want out of your bowhunting experience, I guess....


Now that I'm unhappy with 40-yard groups that used to seem perfectly satisfactory at less than half that distance with the recurve, I can vouch for the stunning increases in precision that can come with sights, a release, a ton of let-off and an extra 60 or 80 feeps.

And for anyone shooting an old, slow compound, or one that's been shot in the foot with an overdraw, I'd bet that they'd see a quantum leap in their shooting precision by upgrading - particularly between what I'd call 'normal' (in the upper teens) and 'long' (in the low-to-mid 30s) bowhunting ranges, where a faster bow really can make small work out of the ranging thing by taking you down to two, tightly spaced pins. As a case in point, there was an old Hoyt at the local shop, in for repairs. Round wheels, and one of the old 'crosshair' style sights with a central, vertical wire about 4-5" high and wire pins that slide up and down. Evidently, the owner is happy with it, even though his pins are spaced so far apart that if he were to use the same spacing inside a typcal 'ring' pin guard like we use now, putting the #1 pin in the center of the ring would maybe allow him to set his #2 pin for the same distance it is now... Seriously. These things are more than a half-inch apart.

So if you're shopping for a 'string rifle' (as I was :o ), then yes, unlike the latest crop of .300 Assenwhoopenmags, the latest and greatest in technology is going to add noticeable reach...

That said....

If I had the opportunity to hit the local 3D course a coupla times a week, the way I used to, and if I had more than a few Saturday afternoons per year to hunt, I'd still be shooting tradgear because as Bowman sez, it's just so dang much more fun:cool:

So if I can be happy hunting even lower tech than the guy with the roundwheel, I don't see any reason he can't be happy, too.... Ultimately, it's just a question of whether you wanna kill something, or you just wanna Hunt:)