Well, it finally happened

[Bushman]

I shot my first buck back in 1963 and have not ever lost one hit anywhere with a rifle since then. I'm in a blue funk right now because I had the big guy in the bag on Saturday and I blew it. This is more like a what would you do story and maybe something that we can learn a lesson from.

I'd scouted the area and knew that there was a hot big buck back there from the sign that he was leaving. I'd hunted this ground stand before and knew that it was strategically placed in an area with good movement. A doe and fawn alerted me to deer in the area so I was attentive when a big buck came over the far hillside on a scrape trail. I had the wind and the thermals and he was not aware that I had a bead on him. He came down the hill right toward me at that fast lope that they do, not a run, but not a walk either. As he got into the creek bottom he turned broadside and stopped at about 80 yards. I've shot more than a few deer on the run, but I'd much prefer a standing shot. I was shooting a scoped bolt action 7mm-08 with the scope set at 4x. He was in the brush and about half way through the 80 yard window where I could see deer before they disappeared. At that point, what would you do?

His front lower portion was screened by brush, so I said to myself "I'll take the withers shot for a DRT shot." At the shot he whirled, clamped his tail and ran back up the hill. I couldn't believe that he hadn't dropped, but then I thought that I must have got high lungs instead because of the downward angle. I had another round chambered and was on him again when he reached the top of the hill when he stopped quartering away. Okay, tip over now was what I was thinking. No need to shoot again as I'd just get guts and probably that far shoulder. What would you do here?

I gave him half an hour as there were no other hunters in the area. When I went to find him he wasn't there!!! Where he stopped at the top of the hill there were blood droplets every couple of feet that covered 20 feet along the trail. Red muscle type blood. Okay, I've got a blood trail now I thought. Wrong. The blood completely stopped; and I mean completely. Four hours of combing the area Saturday and again all day Sunday ONLY found those same few drops of blood. Circles, grids, high, low, tall grass, evergreens... nothing. I did jump one large deer out on Sunday, but it flagged as it ran. I went down to where my deer had been standing when I shot the day before and found a freshly clipped branch. Dave-t, sound familiar with brush deflection?

Herne's writing of one shot in the right place with an accurate bolt action kept going through my mind. But hey, I'm not a market hunter, I want a trophy buck. Right now I am second guessing my choice as I have five other deer rifles and that scoped .308 M742 carbine keeps coming to the top of my short list. In years past I've used that 7mm-08 bolt action and didn't take the shot because the deer was on the run. In other years I've taken that M742 and did take the running shot and the deer came home with me.

Brush deflection happens where I hunt. This buck gave me a standing shot sure, but he also gave me a lot of running back angle as he ran up the hill plus that standing quartering away angle at about 120 yards. Could I have shot again with that bolt action, sure. Could I have shot a whole bunch of times with that M742 until I was sure that he was on the ground... Yes again. What would you do for next year and what would you have done in my place this year? I've got a 154" on the wall and this guy was bigger with a plus size 220# dressed kind of body. Color me bummed.

[Herne]

You've scorched him high for sure. Yes I would have fired again, because if you aim high and it doesn't fall over you know you have a problem.

I can only say what I do - because of this obstruction problem. I always shoot off the sticks, because then you are steady enough to weave through the twiggery. The only other thing is that mental apporach, that says he's not yours untill he's on the floor, that stops you forgetting about all the bits and peices and checks that you do without thinking on a lesser beast.

Sorry for you Bushman - I really am

[Twanger]

No need to shoot again as I'd just get guts and probably that far shoulder. What would you do here?


That's a real bummer there Bushman.

My rule about deer that I've shot is "If the deer is not down and laying still on it's side I will shoot it again, and again, given any opportunity."

My $0.02 - Far better to deal with a gut shot second shot, than never seeing the deer again. All bets are off once you've drawn blood and didn't get the "bang/flop" result you were hoping for. Shoot the thing in the ham if you have to. Once blood is drawn your responsibility is a liberal application of metal until the desired result is achieved.

As far as shooting through holes in brush - absolutely. If I didn't do that, I'd have killed half as many deer. I don't try to "punch through brush" though... that's asking for a deflection.

[GF.]

Knowing that you ultimately lost the deer, I'd say I would have let him have it on the 120-yard quarter-away... :D


JMO - there's no reason to question the rifle that you used. Maybe you could have hit him as he ran out of there, or maybe you could have made damn good and sure that he wouldn't ever consider stopping and offering you a decent follow-up. My own chances of hitting a buck as he runs flat-out through thick woods are so grim as to not even merit passing consideration.

But just like yours, my DRT-gone-wrong shot gave me a follow-up opportunity - which I took - because when DRT turns to WTF, you gotta do what you gotta do...

[Bill Gunn]

I always keep in mind "Always shoot at least twice".
It worked for me this opening day. I had a 40 to 50 yard treestand shot in some really thick scrub pines. Lots of growth of 10 to 15 foot small hardwood trees, brush, and dead pines that don't let a lot of sunshine through.
It looked like a clear 90* broadside shot (2.5 power scope), but at the shot, it immediately seemed as though the deer did not act like it got hit in the boiler room.... there seemed to be a slight hesitation before it ran.
I automatically got ready for the "Always" second shot, and hit it low in the spine, right over the lungs while it was running 1/4ing toward me. It did a somersault, and crashed, but then tried to get up, so I dumped a 3rd one in the lungs.

Upon inspection, I seen the 1st shot just barely skinned it's back just in front of the rear legs, which caused a trickle of blood to flow down it's side :confused:
I walked over to where the deer was standing when I first shot, looked toward my stand, and sure enough, I clipped a branch I never seen about 1/2 way to the deer.
My friends quite often say, "I knew it was you shooting.... 2 shots" .
Even if I don't get a chance at shooting a second shot at the deer, at least it gets me ready for those unexpected shots that once in a while present themselves, like a buck walking out, right after I shoot a doe.

I really was surprised that that first shot wasn't a kill shot, and if not for the second shot, that deer would still be running!

Also shows that even a 270gr bullet ain't no "Brush Buster" :)

[Bushman]

"You've scorched him high for sure." Exactly what I gathered from the evidence as well. Survivable I'm hoping? The fat layer on a deer is high and what I think he was doing for a few seconds on the top of the hill was licking what bit him, then the fat and hide just closed over the wound. The tail clamped down I thought looked more fatal than it was, but then these Alpha bucks are so narcissistic that they don't flag when they get scared like a doe will. Turning around and going back up hill wasn't a good sign either. Wouldn't a hard hit deer go off on a mad dash in the direction that it was facing?

I'm rethinking using these Barnes TSX bullets now too. They make for a tidy carcass when you put them in the right place, but they don't open large leaky exit wounds like those cup and core bullets do from what I've seen. The heart of that buck on my wall strained through my fingers from a 165 grain Hornady BTSP .308 Custom load. Copper and lead I understand, monolithic not so much so I think that I'll save the elk bullets for the elk.

And Herne mentioned the mental aspect of the hunt. Though a pound heavier than that custom 7mm-08, that .308 carbine has done the job every time it has been shot at a deer. I'm not saying that I should go popping off at a deer like my kid on his video game, but just knowing that I could gives me a mental edge. With the bolt action I'm always waiting for a perfect shot and over a lifetime of deer hunting I'm realizing that they don't always happen.

Congratulations on the buck you got Bill. Lever action I expect?

GF, "When DRT turns to WTF, you gotta do what you gotta do..." That's a great line and one that I think I'll make a label of for future reference.

[Bill Gunn]

Congratulations on the buck you got Bill. Lever action I expect?

Thank You,

1.5 year old 3 point +/- 125#'s

Yup, the new .44 Mag. Marlin Cowboy...

I like It :)

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2250/777751/13525437/375650616.jpg

[GF.]

Knowing Bill, I'd bet on a .444 :cool: (see? I may type slow, but I guessed right ;) )

Just thinking..... if a deer runs 100 yards after I've shot at it, it was either a crappy hit which demands a follow-up, or a clean miss, in which case a follow-up could be the worst decision a guy had made in quite a while...

Honestly, on my botched neck-shot I suppose I could have missed entirely on the first - that played through my mind as I racked #2 into the chamber - but he just acted hit. Which is good, because #2 shot missed :p

I just hope the hit that you did get was inconsequential - that way, you can try again some day... Hopefully soon!

[ncboman]

sorry to hear about your/our loss.

I wouldn't blame the gun, blame the odds. We all know when we shoot thru brush there is some element of gamble.

Your number just came up that time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/ncboman%2011%2002%2009/cowhorn.jpg
entry wound

one I killed a couple weeks ago with a shot thru HEAVY brush with my 06. 150gr powerpoint turned sideways at impact (see above). Only force of habit cause me to even go look.

I was like 'wow' when I saw this. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/ncboman%2011%2002%2009/S5300002.jpg

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another picture story without the pics;

Some years back I was almost to my land and day was breaking. It was foggy though so I felt ok being a tad late.

As I passed a neighbor's small bean field I thought I saw a really big buck out in it so I stopped the truck and backed up to make sure in the fog. Sure nuff, :) ... and he let me get out of the truck and take a nice rest across the toolbox.

At the shot he turned and ran into the woods about 50yds behind him. I followed him along in the scope and could have dropped him several times but never fired again. I just knew he was dead.

He wasn't even hit. :eek:

<sidenote>; all the above was perfectly legal and I had permission. :cool:

I should have shot him again ... and you should have too. :o

[Sabre]

Brush deflection happens where I hunt. This buck gave me a standing shot sure, but he also gave me a lot of running back angle as he ran up the hill plus that standing quartering away angle at about 120 yards. Could I have shot again with that bolt action, sure. Could I have shot a whole bunch of times with that M742 until I was sure that he was on the ground... Yes again. What would you do for next year and what would you have done in my place this year? I've got a 154" on the wall and this guy was bigger with a plus size 220# dressed kind of body. Color me bummed.

I pride myself on one shot kills as much as anybody and normally do just that. But I gotta say, on a buck that size, if he didn't drop immediately when I was expecting him to, my old lever action .30-30 would be hummin' for all it was worth and that buck woulda looked like a spaghetti strainer by the time he was halfway up that hill.

[dave-t.]

Too bad Bushman. Like you, this season was the first time I missed a buck with a gun. I've missed does, and made hits that weren't perfect where the deer was recovered, but it really shakes a guy up to miss what seemed like a makeable shot.

I started handloading this year, did my load testing, found sub-moa loads for my rifles, and shot as far as I can tell 1,470 shots through a bolt action .22 this year, and then to miss....:confused:

I feel your pain, Bushman.

[Bushman]

Dave, did you think about shooting again? You were using your .44 carbine right? I was reading up at Brownie's and Alt posted that military code #7 of which I am going to print and affix to the stock of my rifle. "Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice."

[dave-t.]

The buck I missed retreated through the thick cover and didn't have a better shot than the one I already goofed on. I was watching it through the scope and didn't see any sign or reactions of a hit. All I could do was watch him slip off through the brush.

I think the only thing that I could have done diffferently was to shoot him about 2 feet earlier on the trail. I was trying to shoot before he was covered by brush and obviously missed the open window I had. I got on him in the open, and instead of snap shooting, I followed with the crosshairs just a fraction to far before firing.

[ncboman]

I think the only thing that I could have done diffferently was to shoot him about 2 feet earlier on the trail.

or yelled, HEY!!! ... so he'd stop ... maybe ... :rolleyes:

course hindsight is always 20/20. :D

[Herne]

I know i'm all for a single shot, but then single shots are not always equal.

In this case a shot was fired at a deer which should have dropped it on hte spot, and it didn't so something has gone wrong.Like others, I don't believe this gun or that, or this bullet or that are involved.

All that mattered was that, for whatever reason, the fact that the shot hadn't gone to plan had not been appreciated in time.

[Bushman]

Total agreement on that one. What then is the best way to shoot a buck in a brush setting? Using this as a typical encounter, the deer was theoretically in range the moment that he came over the hill. I thought moving in brush is a lower percentage shot. Letting him get as close as he was going to get knowing that I had the wind advantage was a plus. Turning broadside was a plus and stopping was a plus. The brush did open up slightly where he was heading on the deer trail, but he likely would have been moving again when he got there. Is it best to try to thread a bullet through the brush into a vital area on a standing shot? Or hold out in front of the animal in the more open area and shoot when he crosses there? Or move the rifle with him as he moves to try to shoot a vital area? Or try to stop him with a whistle or a grunt in a more open area for a shot presentation?

[Herne]

I don't think there is any direct answer to htat.

I always shoot off the sticks in brush, which means that every shot is premeditated. I think you have to because you may only be able so see a few square inches of the deer (Indeed you may be struggling to tell which bit of him you ARE looking at). Thats a small target to hit freehand. There may be many who can do it (on a range?) but I'm not one of them.

I've tended therefore to have picked a spot, and then stopped him there - you have a pretty good idea of his line if he is on the move, and if hes not, then you know where he is anyway.

Off the sticks without other support, you can hit a 2" circle at 75 yards with some certainty. With your back against a tree you can hit a 3" circle at 170(if you can see that far!).

Much better IMO to stop him, Simply because the stationary shot allows you to see and avoid the obstructions.

So the balance of advantage lies with you.(You are only going to get one shot mostly).

To be honest, this is why these big high power scopes pay so well in heavy cover. You can SEE the obstructions, and thats important in situations where moving a point of aim 1/4" makes all the difference. I really do NOT understand those who say that you go for low powers. The less of a deer I can see, the more I want it magnified. I can undestand that view if you can see good chunks of the deer, but in the woods we are talking of shooting through gaps of less than a couple of inces, or between the fingers of blades of grass

Because after this, and Postoaks thread, I don't suppose and anyone is going to be so dull as to try to blast a shot through grass twigs and leaves. And since, in those circumstances, I am not prepared to give up a shot at a deer, around the scenery one has to swerve - either oneself or a bullet - but in the gaps it HAS to be.

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wheres NCB. well a whistle works, but as you suggest- something like Hey, is actually best. Seriously - been the last thing a lot of deer ever heard. Not too loud - just friendly sort of "Hey" like you'd call to someone on the other side of a quiet road. I have the gun in the sticks, on THE SPOT, pre-aimed, then as he steps onto the spot,"Hey" - bang. Quick as that.