varmit rifle

[purple heart]

If you had to go out and buy a new, off the shelf varmint rifle what
brand and caliber would you buy?

That's one thing I don't have in my gun safe. A dedicated varmint
gun and seeing as how we're having coyote problems where I deer
hunt I thought I might just look into varmint hunting after deer season.

I know I could just use one of my deer rifles but then I wouldn't have an
excuse to buy a new gun.:D:D

[Hi Ball]

I already did that a couple months back and I can tell you for a fact, the SAVAGE is a very hard rifle to beat for the money. Next comes the CZ rifles and they too have plenty of great accuracy for shooting small critters far downrange. I really like that set trigger in their model 527. I do not particularly care for a clip feed magazine but the price was hard to beat for a plan Jane knock around rifle.:)

The Savage model 12 has a great trigger and it too is very very accurate in the .204 caliber. We also have one in the .223 caliber as well. The .204 shoots .250 to .400-MOA with factory ammo on a good day at the bench. The 2 other rifles we purchased in the CZ brand, both shoot .500-MOA from the bench and sometimes even less with factory Hornady V-Max bullets.;)

Purple Heart:.....My suggestion to you for use on those Song Dogs or Mr. Coyote is the caliber in a .243 Winchester and if you wish to take them far far down range, then the 25/06 or the .260 Remington comes to mind. I speak to a lot of younger gents who use their .204 caliber to take coyotes and the .223 also but I for one like the .243, 6mm Rem, and my favorite for years was the 25/06 using a 100 grn bullet. The recoil is not much at all in case your wondering ok. My wife uses her .243 model 70 Winchester with 85 grain bullets and those coyotes never run off after being hit by the bullet.

[purple heart]

Hey Hi Ball, thanks for the advice. I never was a Savage man but lately
they have been getting some pretty good reviews. That new trigger system seem to be a good thing.
I do have a 243 and have taken some deer with it. It's a Ruger ultralight.
It would do because the ranges I would be shooting would be less than
200 yards. The trouble is I wouldn't have an excuse to buy something new.lol
I have a 223 contender that I load for so was thinking maybe that would be
the caliber to go to but then maybe a 22-250 wouldn't be too bad either.
I'm a little shy on going to anything smaller than 22 caliber because years
ago when the 17 came out there was a lot of talk about the barrels getting
shot out real quick. There also seemed to be cleaning problems. That was
years ago so maybe those problems have been cleared up.

[Hi Ball]

Purple Heart, if your still kicking, just wanted you to know I purchased another one of those cheap Savage rifles in a 17 rimfire. Yep, I got tired of spending 6-Bits for a shot on critters. Now I just spend 2Bits instead!:D

[purple heart]

Hey Hi Ball, is that Savage model 12 a heavy barrel varmit rifle?
Did Savage come out with a new adjustable trigger.
What did you think about that trigger?
I like light triggers on my rifles. That comes from back when I use to do
a lot more target shooting than i do now.
Maybe after the holidays when things calm down I'll look into that savage.

[GF.]

Trouble is, or so it seems to me....

You've got varmints, and then you've got coyotes.

To do it on the cheap for 200-yard woodchucks, foxes, and other stuff generally under 20 pounds, there's the Savage Model 40 in .22 Hornet, which costs about half of what a Savage Model 12 varmint rig can run you. I'm not sure exactly how the 40 differs from the Model 25, though - and the 25 comes in .223 and .204 Ruger.

But in the same price range, you could get an ER Shaw rifle built to suit. I'm not sure if their 6mm Rem BR is the same round as the Norma BR, but that one will handle bullets up to 87 grains (at over 3,000 fps) on the 'slow' end, and it'll push a 55 grainer at 3800. That covers a lotta territory.

Savage chambers for that one, too.... Seems to shoot OK with the 87-grainers
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/view/mb/file?username=6mmbr&id=189451


More load data... Seems interesting....

http://www.6mmbr.com/varmintloads.html

[Bayrat]

I'll throw in another vote for Savage.

When I was looking for a Woodchuck gun that I could also use for yotes, I did a lot of reading on a few varment websites. Many of the shooters were using some model of Savage.

With four kids to feed money was tight. My model 11 Savage in .223 had the best accuracy for the least money. I don't reload, and there are a lot more choices of accurate .223 ammo off the shelf.

The Savages have a barrel twist that's good with heavier bullets, but I've found that mine likes just about any load. The Black Hills 50gr V-max is what I mostly use. It gives very good accuracy and eye-popping results on chucks ...litterally !!!

Hunting farm fields up in these hills with homes around them, possable ricochets and pass through shots were a major concern. The very first one I got with the V-Max was just under the chin at 110 yards and both eyes had been popped out, hanging out of the skull from the V-Max's sudden expansion. The rest have been similar results. The Black Hills V-max are accurate and devastating on small game.

Bayrat

[purple heart]

Hey Bayrat, Would you still consider the 223 the best caliber to have
in that savage if you were going after coyotes only?


You guys have me convinced that I should take a serious look at the savage
line of rifles but I'm not set on a caliber. I've got mixed feelings about it.
Part of me says stick with the calibers that I load for now. 243 and 223
and the other part of me says try something different like a 22-250.
Our coyotes run a little bigger that the western coyotes and I'd want to
know that what I was whacking them with was going to put them down and
not having them able to get away to die elsewhere. I could shoot them with
a 270 but I don't want that much gun unless It was needed for some reason
that I can't see at this time.
What's the coyote killing difference between the 223 and the 22-250?

[Bayrat]

purple heart,

Yeah, here in central NY we get yotes about as big as they get anywhere. I believe the state record is still 50 some pounds, taken north east of Albany a few years back.

I've never used a 22-250 so I can't compare, but quite a few of the locals use the 22-250, or larger for chucks and yotes. One guy I know loves to use his 308 on chucks. He says, "Seeing that red mist saves him a walk to see what happened". That is, until the day he called me and asked, "How do I get the burn marks off the paint on my truck hood ?". :D

I thought about the faster 22 cal loadings and the more I looked, it came down to, I'd only be spending more money for the same dead critter. And in some cases, shorter barrel life.

And there are more expensive, fancier guns, but the Savge accuracy for the money is tough to beat.

Anyway, a .223 will not be under-gunned on even our large yotes. 200-300 yards is about as long a shot as we get. And, with all the hedge rows and wind breaks around most of the hay fields, it's fairly easy to get close to game, so there's not many places more than 400 yard range is needed.

For our big Yotes a heavier .223 such as 55 gr soft points, or the heavier ballistic tips, is better, and the Savage barrel 1 in 9 twist in .223 favors heavy-for-caliber rounds.

Bayrat

[dave-t.]

What's the coyote killing difference between the 223 and the 22-250?

About 70-100 yards.:rolleyes:

If you don't want to keep the hide, there is no downside to going bigger than .224"

If you have a 243, it will do what a 22-250 will do with the 6mm 55-70grn bullet weights. Over 3500fps pretty easily with the lighter bullets.

[Bayrat]

About 70-100 yards.
:D:D:D

The .17 cal fur-savers would probably love to argue that one !!! :D

Bayrat

[dave-t.]

They are making the 5mm rem. shells again if a rimfire would work.

[Bushman]

If I already had a .243 that I was loading for, I don't think that I would be shopping for a .22-250. Once you get out far enough where the .22-250 has a hundred yard advantage over the .223, doping the wind is more of a problem with the .22 centerfires than it ever would be with a .243. Maybe if the smaller varmints were the primary target, those .22 centerfires rule because of the reduced recoil. Coyotes take a licking and keep on ticking and the .243 is the quintessential coyote round for drt results. I know, "What do you need another gun for?" is an often used line heard by us married folk, but in this case I think that she would have a pretty valid argument.

[purple heart]

Bushman buddy, your reasoning is as sound as a rock but you're killing
my less than reasonable want for a new gun.:D:D
You're absolutely right about the 243 being a good coyote killer with
no need to go to anything smaller. It's just that I've never had a dedicated
varment rifle so I was hoping you guys could talk me into one.:)

Bayrat, we had an article in our local paper a couple of Sundays ago
that show a full mount coyote that weighed 72 lbs.
It's The Burlington Free Press.
I know there was a big stink a few years ago when a guy shot a huge,
maybe that 72 pounder, coyote and the F&G was threatening
Prosecution if it turned out to be a wolf. Apparently it was a hybrid
because we never heard any more about it.

[Bayrat]

As I remember, the NYS DEC tested that record one west of Albany back then, and found it also was a hybrid with some wolf DNA in it. Not long after they started saying that the reason our eastern yotes are so big is probably they came down from Canada, ... or some such.

Eitherway, no doubt a 243 will do the job. Except for the job of having an excuse to buy another gun. :o

Tell the wife I said you should have a more specialized, new gun ...... but wait a few minutes to give me a head start outa town !!!! :D

Bayrat

[dave-t.]

What the heck, find a 220 swift and have a blast. You have my permission.:D;)

[Bushman]

Well, the fun factor needs to be taken into consideration and you are the most important guy that you know. I could always justify a deer or elk rifle because those kinds of critters made into some nice steaks and sausages. Sweetness could never see the value in a dead crow or the close together holes in a target that I could, so it wasn't until we lost her that I only had to convince myself that I needed a Cooper .221 Fireball. Those little bullets do blow around though. I got to the range early one day and was contentedly making neat little bullet hole clusters down at the 100 yards target. Then the wind came up a little and I was amazed at how the groups opened up. I had my 7mm-08 along that day too and it was not nearly so wind affected. Coyotes are bigger than crows and bullseyes though and inside 200 yards you wouldn't miss one with say a new .223. Just think how much you would save on ammo, get less recoil, make less noise, have a new cartridge to work up loads for to help keep you home and out of the tavern and out of harms way with a new hobby.;)

[purple heart]

Thanks Bushman I needed that.:):):)

[MOGC]

I've shot a lot of coyotes with everything from a .44 magnum handgun through the various .17 centerfire all the way up to a hot loaded .45-70 rifle. There is a remarkable difference in effect between the .223 and the .243 on coyotes hit around the edges. I used the .223, then moved up to the .22-250, then the .243 and I would not go back down that scale. The .243 is a pure death hammer on coyotes.

[Waidmann]

A number of years ago, I bought a Sako Forrester Varminter in .243 specifically for a varmint rifle (see one here (http://www.gunsamerica.com/909761296/Guns/Rifles/Sako-Rifles/SAKO_FORESTER_243_VARMINTER.htm#)). I put a 6 X 20 X 50mm scope on it, and it is death inc. out a long way. I love the .243, and have reloaded for it for over 20 years now. When I hunted in Germany, my Roe deer rifle was a .243, and it wasn't a streach to make my varmint rifle a .243 also. It is overkill on woodchucks and crows, but what the heck. I don't eat 'em.

Waidmann

[Hi Ball]

Purple Heart,......Now my very first varmint/predator rifle was a 788 Remmy bolt action in 22-250 caliber. I never reloaded at that time, just factory shells. It was good for 225 yards on groundhogs, at 300 yards they could make it back to their hole. It just didn't have enough "Thump" to keep em down. It may have been those factory bullets too...don't really know.

Coyotes that I killed at the 200 marker would run some before dying! I never just dropped them in their tracks unless they were closer than 150 yards. My
6mm 700 BDL in those days knocked their socks off out to 300 yards with my handload loads (85 grn Sierra BT's), the wind starts to figure in a lot more at that distance. Most times the shots were much closer under 150 yds.

However, if you really want to walk the dog....Song Dogs that is, jump up to the 25-06 (100 grn bullets) and you got a bonafied "hammer of thor" no joke! Anytime I want to reach out to 400 yards for yotes or anything varmint or predator, I reach for the 25-06 with stainless fluted bull barrel, shooting my handloads in Sierra BT bullets. This rifle has a 4200 series Bushnell, fine recticule, mil-dots and turrets to dial things in right, power is 5 x 15.;):)