.22-06

[postoak]

Has anybody ever known of a .22-06 wildcat that was developed with the same shoulder angle as the .30-06 and not shortened. I figured this had been done long ago, but apparently not, if google has all the answers.

[GF.]

Is there anything else out there with comparable powder capacity?

Given our inescapable attraction to speed and the fact that '06 brass is so easy to come by, it is a bit surprising that you're coming up blank.

I'm way out of my depth here, but I would think that if nobody has ever bothered with it, it's probably because there is something about it that makes it a pretty obviously bad idea :confused:

[postoak]

Actually, there is a cartridge with the capacity that a .22-06 would have, or even a bit more, but I can't find it's name right now. I'll have to look tonight.

Also, I found 3 improved versions, but nothing on if they had been shortened, or the ballistics.

If you look at all the '06 based cartridges from .375 on down, you see a gradual reduction in capacity from about a max of 65 grains on down to perhaps 52-55 for a .22 (extrapolating).

[dave-t.]

Pressures go up considerably when you pinch down the barrel diameter.

A 35 Whelen can take more powder when topped with a 200grn bullet than a 30-06 can when topped with a 200grn bullet. Smaller hole in the barrel, longer bearing surface between the bullet and bore, higher pressures. Bullets of equal weight can be driven faster out of the bigger bore, with equal or less pressure.

I imagine you would reach a point with the .224 cal where stuffing more poweder behind it only gets you shorter barrel life, and an unweildy outfit to shoot the cartridge from. I'm thinking 28-30"+ barrel to get up to max speed, and not much chance of getting over 1000 rounds out before it's time to rebarrel.

The TTH (Texas trophy hunter), a 22/6mm rem, is about the limit of usefull
.224 wildcats that I have heard of, and even that one has pretty much gone by the way side. 55-60grn bullets at around 4000 fps.

If you are looking into shooting bullets of close to 70grns anyway, it would be just as well to go with a 25-06, or 257Wby imo, and get 3600-3800+fps. I have heard of folks getting 3800fps with an 80grn TSX out of the 257Wby, for their deer set up.

The catbird, .243-06 is another wildcat that is basically a 240Wby mag, and right at (or beyond) the limits of what is unreasonably overbore for the powder charge behind it.

[Fuzzball3]

"Has anybody ever known of a .22-06 wildcat that was developed with the same shoulder angle as the .30-06 and not shortened."

Yes, it has been done. Failed.

I suspect it would do better today with current slow powders. Shooting 100 gr. bullets. And a 56" barrel with a 7" twist.

[postoak]

Well, there's definitely a .24-06, and at least one person who shoots one likes it.

I don't think the .22-06 would be a failure (since it has been, basically, duplicated); especially not with better barrel steel and slower powders.

I have no intention of building one. I was just curious.





Edited to add: That's the .24-06 Ackley Improved, tho.

.24-06 Improved (http://www.customriflesandcartridges.com/24-06%20Ackley%20Web.htm)

[Twanger]

There is, of course, the 30-06 accelerator. MV=4080 fps, 55gr pill.

I have not read anything particularly good about it. Inaccurate, explosive, etc, etc...

See: http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30069

[postoak]

Okay, it is the 5.6 x 61 Vom Hofe Super Express; introduced the same year as the .220 Swift. Although a couple of mm shorter than the .30-06, the internal capacity seems to be about the same as it can hold 54 grains of 4350. It appears to be a .228 bore. It was loaded with 77 grain bullets, so not really a good comparison to what I had in mind.

As for the 6mm, the British have the .244 H&H Belted Rimless Magnum which was larger than a necked down .30-06. This baby can hold 64 grains of 4350 and sends a 100 grain bullet downrange at 3500 fps.

By way of comparison, the .25-06 holds about 55 grains of 4350.

[dave-t.]

http://www.cpcartridge.com/25-06B.htm

25-06 can get up to 3300-3400fps from a 100grn bullet. 9grns of powder is a lot more fuel to only achieve 100-200fps more velocity.

After that little bit of research, some guys reloading recipe's are getting pretty dangerous.:eek:

[postoak]

Are you talking about the .244 H&H? It's a necked down .375 H&H, not a cartridge based on the 30-'06.

[Ol` Joe]

Sounds like a 220 Howell. Ken Howell developed a whole line on the `06 case. I believe the shoulder angle was slightly altered though.
http://www.hunting-rifles.com/Ammo/ammunition.htm

[Greywolf]

Has anybody ever known of a .22-06 wildcat that was developed with the same shoulder angle as the .30-06 and not shortened. I figured this had been done long ago, but apparently not, if google has all the answers.

Postoak,
If you can find the address of George Siedenshwartz (SP?) in the Longrifle makers Guil list. I know he could enlighten you on that very subject.
George was an avid wildcatter in Mass. til he began building Pensylvania LongRifles and found it to be much healthier on his bank account.

He did have a love affair going with what he had named Siedenshwartz Special 22-06.

I looked him up a few years back, and he was in Tennessee. I'll see if maybe I can find him again and give you the PH and Addy.

[postoak]

Well, I was curious about the ballistics of a plain old .30-06 necked down to .224, with no other changes. AND, using standard weight bullets such as the .22-250 and .220 Swift use, not heavier bullets. I think it must have been done, the information just isn't on google.

[Thumper]

Gentlemen, I am the proud owner of a .22-06 x 35 degree shoulder. It is built on a 1903 Springfield action. It was built as one of a pair for two brothers that hunted blacktail deer in California. I acquired it in a trade. It has a 26 inch barrel with 14" twist.
Cases measure 3.430" in length. I would not recommend it to others as it requires some effort to get good cases. I currently load it with T870 powder and 60 grain Nosler Partitions.
My notes indicate I'm running about 3800 FPS. I believe that it was built in the 1950s to take advantage of the plentiful supply of military brass. I do know that the gunsmith that made it later switched to the wildcat .25-06 x 35 degree shoulder. Hope this helps.

[Thumper]

Sorry case length should be 2.430"

[Bushman]

Thumper, one sure wonders why someone would go to all the trouble of making a .22-06 when they could buy a .220 Swift or a .22-250 off the shelf and have factory loaded ammunition as well. Nothing around here needs that kind of speed so I'm perfectly content with a .221 Fireball. Since I don't own a chronograph 3,000 fps gets down to the target fast enough for me. In my experience those little bullets blow around in the wind at longer ranges anyway.

[Thumper]

Well, as I said, there was a move to utilize the .30-06 cases that were plentiful in the 50s. Lots of wildcats were developed from that case. I enjoy my .22-06 because it is a piece of history. I posted that i would not recommend one like mine because of the effort required to fabricate brass for reloading. Other factors are very limited recommended loads for it. You are correct in saying there are more modern cartridges available but they didn't exist back then. I also shoot .22 Hornet, .223 Remington, and .22-250. I also use the 5mm Remington rimfire, .22 WRF and WMR.
More about the .22-06. I have had bullets break up in flight so I have settled on the 60 gr. Nosler Partition. I have recorded velocities as high as 4200 FPS with lighter bullets but several factors have led me to back off of those speeds and bullets. If I were to build another I would use the standard shoulder of the .30-06. I have heard of a gentleman that uses three of them for his annual prairie dog hunts. It is said that he rebarrels them often.
I posted because there are people out there that are curious about the various .22-06'S and I thought my experience might help.

[Bwana416]

The two smallest bore cartridges I know of based on the .30-06 are the .25-06 and the .243 Catbird. The Catbird is technically based on the .270 but wasn't the .270 an offspring of the .30-06? The Catbird will fling a 100 grain bullet at about 3,550 fps and a 58 grain V-max at about 3,950fps. It's the brainchild of Kenny Jarrett and Kenny told me at a gun show to expect a maximum barrel life of 1,500 rounds. It's VERY specialized and chambered in his Beanfield Rifles. Sounds like long range murder on Pronghorn and Mulies.

Ray From Bloombergia