Blackhorn 209 Ignition Problems

[hunterpat]

I tried the Blackhorn 209 powder in my TC Omega and did not have good results. I shot 20-25 shots a the range and 5 times I had delay fires and duds, where the "boom" was much less than normal (the bullet came out of the barrel, but that is about it). I tried the Win 209 and Fed 209 primers and had problems with both. Also, the best 3 shot groups were about 3-4" at 100yd (I tried many charge amounts, from 80 to 120 grains). After these problems, I cleaned the gun and tried my 777 magnum pellets I used last year. I had no ignition problems with the 777 and was able to get 1-1.5" groups with 3 different bullet types.

Has anyone else had these problems with Blackhorn 209 in an Omega? Any suggestions on what I might do different?

[Twanger]

The Encore and Omega are very similar in terms of receiver geometry, and I've shot about a pound of Blackhorn powder out of the Encore, trying for MV's up to 2100 fps with 80-120 of powder.

I have noticed no ignition or hang-fire problems using standard 209 Caps. As you probably know, the bottle says not to used reduced power muzzleloader caps with this powder. Like you, I haven't been happy with the groups, though, and my search for high MV's continues.

Maybe you got some bad powder? did you buy it new? Did somebody give it to you? Has it been sitting for a long time after opening? Maybe the lid was not tight, and it was in a humid environment?

[Bill Gunn]

My B-I-L sighted his in with Blackhorn 209 on a nice warm day last summer at my house (100 yard range).
He used 100gr equivalent loads (I think their +/- 80gr actual weight).

He got real good accuracy at 100 yards with powerbelts (to my surprise).
His groups were 3" at most, and mostly smaller.
I was impressed with the powder, and the bullets.
All the shots went off perfectly normal.

Then he came back just before opening day, and checked it out again just to be sure it still grouped. It was cooler and a little damper outside, and he had all his loads premeasured in Cabela's Muzzleloader Speedloaders.
In the +/- 12 shots he fired, he had two BLOOPS that were definitely underpowered shots (one hit the ground about 25 yards before the 100 yard target, the other we couldn't find).
He also had one complete misfire that we could not get to go off with 3 primers that fired. The rest of the shots grouped real well.
He did take it hunting one day, and when he went to clear the gun at the end of the day, it misfired again.
He left the gun home the rest of the season.

GOOGLE "blackhorn 209 problems".... You'll see your not alone by a long shot (Or a Misfire !!)

[Twanger]

Yikes. You guys are scaring me.
Glad I took my Triple-7 gun hunting last Saturday!

[hunterpat]

All,

The powder was new. I bought it on Nov 26 and went to the range on Nov. 29. The seal was intact when I opened it, but I don't really know how long the container was on the shelf. One comment the Gun Store owner told me was he has been selling alot of it. The day I shot the powder it was sunny and in the lower 40's (typical for Illinois in late Nov.). One of my buddies at work asked me if someone pissed in the powder - that didn't happen after I got it but that is about how it performed.

I have used 777 in many conditions and have never had this problem, so I am at a loss of what I might be doing wrong. Since muzzleloader season starts next week in Illinois, I think I'll stick with the 777 mag pellets since they always fire OK and the accuracy is pretty good. One thing I might do is to call or write Blackhorn and see if they will send me some more powder at no charge - it will be their last chance to convince this potential customer.

[captchee]

Interesting .
Normally I a least try a lb or two of the new powders when they come out .
But I I will not with the 209 . The price is just ridicules.

But until now I had not heard of any issues with it .
Guess I have not been reading the right places ..
Sounds to me like it draws moister like a spung .
Not to mention it may be separating either after packaging or during loading

[Bill Gunn]

All,
I have used 777 in many conditions and have never had this problem, so I am at a loss of what I might be doing wrong.

You are not doing anything wrong.
Blackhorn is very Temp, and moisture sensitive. It is now a recognized problem with the powder.

Don't feel to bad, I talked my B-I-L into buying 2 bottles.
The reports on it last summer were all 5 star :p

[alan]

From what I understand, in additiobn to proper 209 primer & proper breech plug, the proper projectile has to be tight fitting. I can't explain why but it has to do with back pressure to properly ignite the powder. This could be why powerbelts work so well due to the gas check seal on the plastic bottom. So far I like BH-209 but it seems to be quite finicky to assure reliable ignition.

[captchee]

so are you saying that in your oppenion 209 needs both heat and pressure to ignight reliably allen ?

[ncboman]

so are you saying that in your oppenion 209 needs both heat and pressure to ignight reliably allen ?

if so, then the amount of pressure could effect accuracy?

[alan]

so are you saying that in your oppenion 209 needs both heat and pressure to ignight reliably allen ?

Yes; Seems so.

[Dwayne]

From what I understand, in additiobn to proper 209 primer & proper breech plug, the proper projectile has to be tight fitting. I can't explain why but it has to do with back pressure to properly ignite the powder. This could be why powerbelts work so well due to the gas check seal on the plastic bottom. So far I like BH-209 but it seems to be quite finicky to assure reliable ignition.

I don't understand. . . How can you like a powder that is quite finicky to get any kind of reliable ignition? I guess IMO I want reliable iginition. . . a fired gun is much better than a misfired gun and/or a deer rolling on its back with its feet up laughing its head off at you because of a finicky moment or a bloop.

[alan]

Point
I don't understand. . . How can you like a powder that is quite finicky to get any kind of reliable ignition? I guess IMO I want reliable iginition. . . a fired gun is much better than a misfired gun and/or a deer rolling on its back with its feet up laughing its head off at you because of a finicky moment or a bloop.

point taken; I like to experiment in search of the perfect load. I don't want to deal with 777 crud ring, pyrodex absorption of moisture, & black powder fouling; So far BH 209 has not failed as long as I am careful with ignition & projectile.