Hog control, not hunting

[Bill Mc]

Texas hog control program (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiHmYsyVniE&feature=player_embedded)

[GF.]

So are these assholes working directly for PETA, or do they get paid through the PR agency?:rolleyes::mad:

Good thing they camo'd up good.... those hogs are sharp-eyed little devils.....:rolleyes:

[Altjaeger]

So are these assholes working directly for PETA, or do they get paid through the PR agency?:rolleyes::mad:

Good thing they camo'd up good.... those hogs are sharp-eyed little devils.....:rolleyes:

What a stupid comment calling people doing necessary control work assholes. These feral hogs are a multi-million dollar problem with the damages they do to this states agriculture.

Texas has no season, no controls on means or shooting hours quite deliberately. Many people trap them, any cartridge is allowed 24/7/365. Large numbers are killed with rimfires Some areas ranchers will go out for an evening shooting hogs in headlights driving across fields killing 70-80-90 hogs leaving them lay because they cannot possibly process them. They do not care wear the bullets hit as long and they get a bullet in. They do not care if they die there or they die of infection in 2 weeks, what they care is that they die.

Yet in six months to a year they will have the same problem because feral hogs multiply like rabbits. It is not any different than the control of wolves from the air in areas where their predation in crushing the moose population. Very likely if you were losing 5 figures or more a year to them you would be just as motivated as these people are.

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid than to...:rolleyes:

[Albin]

What a stupid comment calling people doing necessary control work assholes. These feral hogs are a multi-million dollar problem with the damages they do to this states agriculture.

Texas has no season, no controls on means or shooting hours quite deliberately. Many people trap them, any cartridge is allowed 24/7/365. Large numbers are killed with rimfires Some areas ranchers will go out for an evening shooting hogs in headlights driving across fields killing 70-80-90 hogs leaving them lay because they cannot possibly process them. They do not care wear the bullets hit as long and they get a bullet in. They do not care if they die there or they die of infection in 2 weeks, what they care is that they die.

Yet in six months to a year they will have the same problem because feral hogs multiply like rabbits. It is not any different than the control of wolves from the air in areas where their predation in crushing the moose population. Very likely if you were losing 5 figures or more a year to them you would be just as motivated as these people are.

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid than to...:rolleyes:



Where can I sign up?

:D

[venado]

Unfortunately Albin having to "sign up" isn't an issue today if you read the intro to the video. Everyone that I know that has gotten the permt is wild to get up there and do the control. In this case a lot of money was raised to attempt to destroy a problem and as Altjaeger noted they can be assured that it will not be long before the problem rears its head due to the awesome reproduction capacity of feral hogs.This hog predation is a serious agricultural issue here in Texas and based on GF.'s comment it shows that there are invariably reasons that things are done a certain way in one region vs. another. If you don't recognize that these differences exist you'll come out looking foolish at times. The actual shooting is actually easier than it appears on film since the shots are really closer than it seems. It sounds like both the AK and the AR are supressed which would make shooting easier too. All in all a heck of a cool film in my opinion.

As to GF.'s point re PETA, it is similar to those that get their meat in those plastic trays with shrink wrap on top. Perhaps some think it just grows that way.:rolleyes: The facts of life are hard to explain to "assholes" like PETA but facts are facts and being PC is not the way to do it.

[southtexas]

GF:

In many areas of Texas, the hogs is out of control. They get the same respect as fire ants, killer bees, and roaches.

[postoak]

I still say that it's all the corn feeders that have caused this problem. Eliminate them and you eliminate the hog population explosion.

Also, can they be fenced out?

[Altjaeger]

I still say that it's all the corn feeders that have caused this problem. Eliminate them and you eliminate the hog population explosion.

Also, can they be fenced out?

At best corn feeders are a small contributor overall, though I am sure more of a factor in some places than others. I know of rice farmers of thousands of acres suffering major damage, over east of I35 it is the thousands of acres of corn grown, and then there are the peanuts so important to the economy around Gorman, soy bean in the panhandle are another. Then there are truck farms and specialty crops as well.

I talked a farmer last year that farmed down to the Brazos where I was camping on a public sandbar. He said the hogs got into the middle of the corn fields and trampled themselves a home eating out from there watering in the river at night. In the meantime they had plenty of cover because no farmer will knock down his crops to drive in and spot light, they had good cover to the river providing what was all in all it was a safe sanctuary. Very few are spending the money to put out enough corn to be a major contributor.

Investigate the cost of building a pig proof fence and maintaining it will I think answer your own question. That cost would show up in your grocery bill. It would become a major production cost.

[postoak]

So are these assholes working directly for PETA, or do they get paid through the PR agency?:rolleyes::mad:

Good thing they camo'd up good.... those hogs are sharp-eyed little devils.....:rolleyes:

They are wearing camo because it is COLD, and hunting clothes are their warmest clothes.

[postoak]

A fence is expensive, but a 1 time cost. Besides, hiring that team must cost a lot.

Why weren't pigs such a problem 30+ years ago? Because people weren't using feeders.

[Altjaeger]

A fence is expensive, but a 1 time cost. Besides, hiring that team must cost a lot.

Why weren't pigs such a problem 30+ years ago? Because people weren't using feeders.

As I am sure Alan and SouthTexas among others will tell you a fence is not a one time cost. Animals, weathers and machinery will all at times damage it. Maintenance is an ongoing cost that increases each year. Also a fence has a limited life span before it will need replacement to be effective.

While services such as this helicopter team are not cheap, they are cost effective or they would not exist. Also seldom is an individual hiring them. Instead an association is contracting the service and the cost is split among its members. What you saw in the film may have been a dozen or more properties.

As to why the increase my answers are only a guess as are yours. My guesses include the increase in large property and corporate farming. The man who owned his own land and only planted oe to two hundred acres of crops would more likely have handled the problem himself. When you have a thousand or more acres in a corporate setting with all local representatives salaried or hourly that is less likely until the problem grows severe enough for professionals. Then between those farms you have more and smaller holdings in which shooting is not practical that provide sanctuary. Then there are fewer dedicated hunters and fewer hound hunters with less access to do the control work they once did.

I feel it is very likely any one of these would be at least as much a contributor as feeders and likely more. I am sure there are other causes I am missing completely. But my feelings are that changes in land use patterns is likely the biggest culprit as is so often the case in game population changes.

[venado]

Altjaeger, there is also the poison issue now rigidly enforced that wasn't such a big deal 20 years ago. Today when a person is caught using the very effective poisons he gets the deserved jailtime.

[Altjaeger]

Thats true. 1080, strychnine and M44 guns are all controlled now. I suspect hogs being omnivorious hit some of those guns when they were more common.

[southtexas]

A fence is expensive, but a 1 time cost. Besides, hiring that team must cost a lot.

Why weren't pigs such a problem 30+ years ago? Because people weren't using feeders.

Postoak: Regular barbed wire cattle fences and net wire "game proof" high fences don't even slow a hog down. A hog-proof fence would be VERY expensive for all but the smallest enclosures. Found the following by Googling "hog fences":



The Feral Hog in Oklahoma: Feral Hog Control - Fencing Feral Hog Control - Fencing
Using fences to control feral hogs is probably the most expensive control option. Fencing seldom provides permanent control because feral hogs can find their way through just about any type of fence. Terrain is also another consideration with fencing. Canyons, creeks, ditches, etc. present problem areas in the fence that hogs are sure to find. Chain link fence buried a foot underground, mesh wire fences in combination with an electric wire and electric fences have provided the best results. These fences are most practical for small areas due to cost and maintenance.

And Alt is correct....it certainly ain't a one-time expense.:)

Also, I can't prove it, but I doubt that feeders have contributed much to the problem. Given that hogs will eat literally almost anything, the percentage of their diet that consists of corn from mostly seasonal deer feeders probably isn't that much. In fact, I would guess that feeders have helped to control the population by concentrating the dang things where hunters can shoot them.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

postoak, a corn feeder isn't even an appetizer compared to the damage a group of hogs can do in one night. One farmer I know around here was losing 5 acres/day of corn to hogs during the growing season. We shoot every one we can get a bullet into. Like Alt said I don't care how they die, just that they die. My guess is that much more land is in row crops now than thirty years ago. Truth is that these helicopter control methods, as effective as they may seem to be, are limited in their usefulness. They offer a day or two of control. Very soon every hog with in a ten mile radius of that helicopter hears it when it starts up and they hit the heavy cover. If you notice most of the hogs being shot in that video are rather healthy. They didn't get that way from feeders. There is nothing that slows those buggers down, not fences, not rivers, nothing. If they start feeling pressure they just move on to less pressure. After a while they'll be back again. #1 son used to work as a guide for a big ranch in Atascosa county. He ran a pack of around 30 +or - hog dogs. He killed 6 - 15 hogs per night and you couldn't even tell he was doing anything except giving the alligators plenty to eat. All the control measures combined and not just one or the other serve to keep numbers in check.

Over in rice country I had a friend who would organize shoots. He would find where the hogs were and set up generators wit lights along the levies. The shooters used the most high capacity weapons they could get their hands on (usually AKs or ARs but certainly there were shotguns and rifles of all sorts. They would start the generators during the day and the hogs would not pay any attention to them and it would cover the sound of the people moving along the levies at night. When they were sure the hogs were in the rice field they'd hit the lights and open up. They would kill dozens of hogs in a night. That would work for a short time, then they'd have to give them a rest because they would move on.

This helicopter stuff is nothing new. This has been going on for years and there is still plenty of hogs!

Alan

[postoak]

Well, *something* has changed hog population numbers in Texas from before 1970 -- can we agree on that?

[southtexas]

No question that the hog population in Texas, and in other parts of the country has exploded. And they are apparently continuing to expand their range.

[GF.]

GF:

In many areas of Texas, the hogs is out of control. They get the same respect as fire ants, killer bees, and roaches.

Alt/SoTex:

Apart from it being a shame that there's apparently no means of getting a lot of perfectly good meat to people who could put it to very good use, I have no real problem with that. I do have a problem with dressing up like 'hunters' and posting a video with a rock and roll soundtrack that makes you look like some kind of He-Man video game 'hero'.

I also have an issue with them encouraging people to get involved in a political push to make this kind of 'entertainment' something that they can turn into a business, but obviously, there are a few would-be operators out there who think that there is a real market out there waiting to be tapped.

Apparently, somebody out there is willing to cater to those who just wanna go out and kill a bunch of animals as if it were just a big ol' noisy video game/amusement park ride with great 3-D effects - and if you think that anyone like that is a friend of honest recreational hunting, you're out of your effing mind! This makes a 5-acre pig-pen look like the ultimate in Fair Chase...

Is anybody going back to finish off the wounded pigs? Like hell they are.:rolleyes:

Not even nuisance animals deserve that kind of treatment. If it makes sense to use helicopters, then why am I thinking that it makes better sense to use them to herd the pigs into an enclosure the way they do with surplus mustangs and any number of other species? Or dispense with the helos altogether and trap 'em. That has to be a lot more cost-effective... Do you have any idea what it costs to put a helicopter in the air???:eek:

Kill the pigs that need killing - fine. Gitterdone.

But don't you think they could do it quietly and efficiently, rather than getting their Viet-Nam-door-gunner-wannabe rocks off and posting it on the web for the PETAns and other antis to use as propaganda against every honest hunter in America?


And PostOak -

You're dead on that feeders are a huge part of the problem. (As if you needed anyone to confirm the obvious :D ) And just as with the 'QDM' thread elsewhere, I have zero tolerance - and let alone anything resembling 'sympathy' - for those who are now crying 'hardship' due to the pig overpopulation after years of feeding the beggars while trying to create 'QDM'-managed trophy hunting leases. And not just feeders, but the food plots, stock tanks, and so on.

What did they expect? If they're stupid enough to be running free-range hog ranches, then they obviously need some damn hard teaching so they won't do it again.

But even with that said, it's like a biologist I once heard put it: Sows are such good mothers that if one drops 10 piglets, probably only 13 will survive. They're just way too prolific and successful as breeders to have avoided this problem indefinitely. Again, not that I have any sympathy for those who poured gas on their own houses and are now screaming for the fire department, but if you have feral pigs, an agricultural area and survivable winters, you're gonna have a pig problem sooner or later.

The people I feel sorry for are the actual farmers whose crop land borders the pig sanctuaries that are operating as deer leases... No up-side, large down-side. Lovely.:rolleyes: "Gee, thanks, neighbor!"

[southtexas]

GF: I understand your feeling and won't try to change your mind, just respond to a couple of your comments.

Yes, I know what a helo costs,I have used them (not for shooting hogs). And a farmer with say 500 acres of corn has A LOT of $$ sitting out there unprotected and it can be very cost effective to thin out the vermin and minimize the damage until the crop can be harvested.

As to traps...they are very commonly used and can be effective for a while. But the dang hogs get trap-wise very quickly and the traps become useless.

Just one other thought: I respect your opinion regarding respecting the game. But I don't worry about the rat that is caught in my trap. I don't worry about poisioning the fire ants in the field, or the coyotes, or the roaches. Don't really want to get into a discussion about "where you draw the line" but when a critter, that is not native, starts to cause major damage, it loses my respect and concern for its well being.

I don't see a solution to the hog problem, but believe that we will have to continue to use all the means available to us to try to contain them.

[GF.]

SoTex - I'll see your respectful disagreement and raise you a 'likewise' ;)

But if you were to find a live rat in a trap, wouldn't you finish it off? If you make a ragged hit on a coyote, don't you try and get in a finisher? Don't you go after them with 'enough gun' in the first place? If you saw a coyote or a hog - hit - on the side of the road with its head still up, would you stop to finish it off or drive on?

It's an imperfect world and sometimes animals - nuisance or not - die ugly. I don't like it, but I'm not fool enough to think it doesn't happen. But that clip seems bent on glorifying the wantonness and callousness of the killing, and they've done it that way specifically so that they can market the 'experience' to some very sick bastards who would be willing to pay for the thrill ride.

And the PETA PR machine is gonna have a freakin' field day with it.

[southtexas]

GF: The answer is "yes" to all of your questions....except maybe the side of the road. If the road is a highway, and I don't have a weapon handy, I probably would not.

But if I catch a critter damaging my crops or livestock, I'm not going to be real quick to show mercy. Maybe wrong but the way it is.

My take on the clip is that some guys that fly helo's for a living, are tying to do the capitalist thing and increase their market.

[GF.]

Definitely; they're probably also working out a way to bill the 'client' for the joy ride and the landowners for the 'service'.

But somehow, knowing that the helo operation is finding a new source of revenue doesn't make me feel any better about the black eye that we honest sportsmen are going to take in the PR wars.....

I also kind wonder who's going to get sued when a helicopter goes down in a crop field or somebody/something gets shot that shouldn't have.... If I were a farmer paying these guys to shoot the hogs off of my property, I'd sure want to know if they were using 'professional' shooters or paying clients; not only from a liability standpoint, but also because you'd like to think that the pros have got to be safer and more efficient, which means the farmers should expect to pay less for the air time.

JMO, leaving the shooting in the hands of professionals ONLY is the only reasonable approach to it - just how about finding some 'professionals' who are prepared to act a bit more professional about the whole thing?

[Altjaeger]

You're dead on that feeders are a huge part of the problem. (As if you needed anyone to confirm the obvious :D ) And just as with the 'QDM' thread elsewhere, I have zero tolerance - and let alone anything resembling 'sympathy' - for those who are now crying 'hardship' due to the pig overpopulation after years of feeding the beggars while trying to create 'QDM'-managed trophy hunting leases. And not just feeders, but the food plots, stock tanks, and so on.

What did they expect? If they're stupid enough to be running free-range hog ranches, then they obviously need some damn hard teaching so they won't do it again.

But even with that said, it's like a biologist I once heard put it: Sows are such good mothers that if one drops 10 piglets, probably only 13 will survive. They're just way too prolific and successful as breeders to have avoided this problem indefinitely. Again, not that I have any sympathy for those who poured gas on their own houses and are now screaming for the fire department, but if you have feral pigs, an agricultural area and survivable winters, you're gonna have a pig problem sooner or later.

The people I feel sorry for are the actual farmers whose crop land borders the pig sanctuaries that are operating as deer leases... No up-side, large down-side. Lovely.:rolleyes: "Gee, thanks, neighbor!"

Now I find those to be some pretty fantabulous statements!!!:eek:

Now I understand how Texans can educate themselves on Pennsylvania deer by reading biologist reports and articles on the issue. After a while they get a pretty good feel for whats going on.

Where did you gain all this knowledge that QDM and deer hunting practices are so much the cause of Texas' problem with feral hogs. You will not find it in the Texas Department of Agriculture's (TDA) literature. Oh by the way this is not a game management issue for the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (TPWD) because feral hogs are not game animals. They and the problems they generate are agriculature issues and so the TDA has the lead on the issue.

As far as the hogs deserve better as far as their end that is "hog wash". You can provide no ethical or moral argument that say they deserve any better end that a boll weevil, coyote or rat eating bromadiolone. A sheep rancher really does not care where his bullet lands on a coyote and a rice farmer feels the same about the hog. All they care is that it is ultimately terminal. Would you demand a immediate ending to every cockroaches life by blunt force as opposed to poisoning? That is no more a radical idea from am ethical or moral standpoint. End mosquito control districts spraying and demand all deaths be by swatting so the insect does not suffer? Spare me the self righteous indignation.

But mostly I am curious about the sources of all this astounding knowledge you have shared with us. I am afraid to often when properly studied the "obvious" proves to be extremely erroneous. Please share those sources with us.

[Altjaeger]

It's an imperfect world and sometimes animals - nuisance or not - die ugly. I don't like it, but I'm not fool enough to think it doesn't happen. But that clip seems bent on glorifying the wantonness and callousness of the killing, and they've done it that way specifically so that they can market the 'experience' to some very sick bastards who would be willing to pay for the thrill ride.

And the PETA PR machine is gonna have a freakin' field day with it.

PETA is too busy scaring kids about hamburgers and fried chicken and extolling the virtues of beer over milk to college students to be concerned about such frivolities. When they are not doing that they are busy killing animals claimed from shelters and dumping the carcasses in shopping center dumpsters.

Real truth anyway you handle it they will do their best to smeer the practice for they disapprove even of well groomed and cared for pets calling them prisoners. Thy much prefer all animals roaming feral with man adapting wihout using lethal means to control or working to assist. What you watched was not different than the shooting of coyotes and wolves from aircraft as control measures.

Despite what you seem to have believed earlier EVERY imaginable means including trapping is used to control feral hogs here without total success of any one or all in aggregte. As outlined by both Alan and SouthTexas hogs are intelligent animals (the most intelligent farm yard animal) and quickly adapt to any one method. Shooting, trapping, aerial gunnery must all be practices simulataneously or in rotation to be effective. To bar any one tool would seem folly.

I personally see no reason to bar a commercial enterprise an additional source of income if they wish to also accomodate shoters who will pay for the privilege. It is the capitalistic system that made this country strong and the current brokers today seem so bent on destroying.

The call for "professional shooters" is what has kept hunters like us out of National Parks and archers out of many suburbs so long. For the most part it is a term best erased from out language.

[GF.]

Alt -

It's not about the hogs, it's about so-called 'hunters' behaving like pigs. And FWIW, aerial shooting of wolves and coyotes was/is far less justifiable to begin with; natural, native predators have a rightful place in the areas they inhabit; hogs do not.

In any case, for a professional outfit doing control work, bad hits are an unavoidable bit of ugliness that comes with the territory. Insects? Poisons? Don't be ridiculous. A) the poisons work fairly quickly (else they would never have been approved for use) and B) once they've been ingested, no further action is required to ensure that the pest in question will expire in a reasonably timely fashion. The 'exterminator' has now done all that can be expected of someone who has a business to run.

But there are no commercial operations - exterminator services, research labs or or slaughterhouses as examples - which are permitted to operate with wanton disregard for animal welfare, so the fact that the aerial shooting is allowed to go on at all can only be taken as a sign of the seriousness of the problem - desperate times calling for desperate measures, I suppose...

And the individual farmers and ranchers taking targets of opportunity? SoTex and I have already covered that. Not only does he have a direct stake in the equation, but he's willing to take a reasonable amount of responsibility to finish off any wounded animals as quickly and reliably as possible.

But the paying clients that the helicopter operation is looking for aren't (by and large) thinking about doing this out of 'desperation'; they're doing it to get their rocks off by killing things.

For someone to engage in wholesale slaughter and call it 'sport' is twisted enough; to go about it with a total disregard for the consequences of their bad hits is just beyond repugnant. It is completely sick.

If you disagree with that, then fine, let's agree to disagree, but unlike my agreement with SoTex, I will reserve my respect for your opinions on other matters.


And speaking of other matters...


The call for "professional shooters" is what has kept hunters like us out of National Parks and archers out of many suburbs so long.

And you think that allowing that this sort of portrayal of 'sport' hunting is somehow going to help?:confused:

Personally, I'd prefer letting the military handle the hogs, same as the feral goats that were (last I heard) systematically destroying the Hawaiian islands. If honest-to-God door-gunners and attack pilots need some target practice, then let's turn them loose on the project. It won't eliminate bad hits, but I'd wager that the quick kill percentages would jump pretty quickly when the guys are able to fire in bursts.

Feeders....

You're starting to remind me of the people who say that we shouldn't shoot coyotes because it makes them breed faster through 'compensatory reproduction'.... :rolleyes:

All animals will reproduce at the highest rate that the food base will support; once the on-going caloric requirements of the females are met, everything beyond that goes into additional offspring. Feeders haven't caused the problem, but to suggest that all that corn hasn't provided an effective accelerant simply defies the biology. Especially in a species which has been selectively bred over the years to be extremely efficient at converting calories into protein and stored fat, which can be easily carried over from 'feeding season' to the breeding season.

[pepaw]

I have viewed the clip before it was introduced here. I turned off the volume. It was irritating. But I watched the film and wasn't disturbed by the shooting at all. A little critical of some misses, but my a$$ wasn't the one hanging out of a copter chasing them.
I know people who have hired the services and have met one fellow who does some flying. There are no paid clients in any of their killings. Strictly as service like the pest control I call for my house.
I myself once felt some pity on the ferals when they moved onto my property. Now that I understand how they eat everything in their path and raise offspring so successfully, I eliminate them without remorse.
Aside from the damage to my fields, roads, and yard from their rooting, they are a menace to our native wildllife. Quail nests, turkey eggs, baby rabbits, baby fawns, etc. are all victims of these non-native omnivores. Imagine a pack of bloodhounds foraging across the fields at night looking for something to eat. Every night. And yes, I have seen them eating dead deer on several occassions.
As for corn feeders spreading the population, no even worth mentioning.
Corn feeders dispense small amounts of corn to large groups of hogs. Only a few mouthfuls each. Lots and lots of deer feeders have pens built to keep them out. Feeders provide more good shots for hogs than they provide food for hogs.
As far as traps, every ranch I have seen lately has traps running 24/7. Sure they work, but not as fast as the pigs repopulate.
Fencing them out is not a legit idea on any large patch of groud. Besides the cost, it would be a full time job repairing the fences.
We sometimes specifically hunt hogs. Good table fare, smart, big and no season. But usually we just kill them as opportunity rises. And at every opportunity until they are out of sight or ammo is spent. Without remorse, given the damage they do to wildlife, private land and crops.

pepaw

[pepaw]

"Personally, I'd prefer letting the military handle the hogs, same as the feral goats that were (last I heard) systematically destroying the Hawaiian islands. If honest-to-God door-gunners and attack pilots need some target practice, then let's turn them loose on the project. It won't eliminate bad hits, but I'd wager that the quick kill percentages would jump pretty quickly when the guys are able to fire in bursts."

GF, what if the hogs were eating your neighbors crops, but living in your native brush? Would you really want the military flying without your consent, shooting into your property?

didn't think so.

pepaw

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Best hog bait around is a dead cow. They eat everything, they will eat each other and you too if you are injured and incapacitated. We shoot every one we can get sights on trap them too. They just go nocturnal and will eat corn right up to the door of a trap. We've run them with dogs until the sound of a chain rattling on a dog kennel will send them on a double time march into the next county where they will stay until you don't come looking for them any more. A litter of pigs will be on the move in less than a week and if you thought mama was hungry before she dropped them she is really going to be going through the groceries now.

I like the idea of our military flying around shooting things in Iraq and Afghanistan but I Really don't like the idea of them doing that here at all, unless of course there are some two legged insurgents what needs killin.

GF, I understand the "hunter image" that you are trying to protect and it certainly needs protecting, but this is not about hunting, it's about exterminating a pest. Now you will not find another guy who loves to string up a hog on a cold day and get some chicharones frying, some pork loin on the grill and the grinder warmed up making sausage. I love pigs, used to raise them, thought that having free range hogs was bout the best of all worlds and, at the risk of opening myself to broader and more severe criticism than I could ever get for killing them, was probably very instrumental in their propagation in certain areas of the state. The folly of man is soon made apparent when his experiments go awry. I still believe all of those things but I know that wild, feral hogs are the most destructive animal in North America and the sooner they are eradicated buy any and all means, the better things will be for our native plants and animals. I also believe that their eradication will never happen. They are too resilient.

Alan

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

GF, If you've ever said where you're from I don't recall it or saw it. Just wondering if it is somewhere that has a hog problem, if you are speaking from experience or if you are just going from what you see, read and hear.

This is one of the reasons I don't have much to say on the Whole Wolf thing except to say that I don't want to have any of them around here. Having coyotes and hogs is enough.

Same with bears.

Alan

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I checked the video again and there is a disclaimer that states that they do not sell hunts out of the chopper. They'd like to, and they want a bill passed to do it, but I doubt if it will ever pass. The liability issues connected with doing something like that would make it cost prohibitive. Anyone with the beans to pay for a chopper hunt can certainly pay for a bevy of lawyers to sue a chopper Co. that injures someone or something. injuries in helicopter crashes, especially those little bubble type usually require a paint scraper and a mop to clean up, so I doubt if it will catch on. I know some guys who have done this and they soon lose their taste for it.

Alan

[Bushman]

Are you guys talking about that first link that Bill Mc put up? I've tried to run it twice now and all I get is very staccato sound and still halting images. I do have a high speed connection, but maybe my browser isn't up to snuff. What are you guys seeing?

[GF.]

what if the hogs were eating your neighbors crops, but living in your native brush? Would you really want the military flying without your consent, shooting into your property?

didn't think so.


Without my consent? Of course not. Who said anything about that? Are the guys who want to sell the aerial hunts operating without consent?

To borrow a phrase, "didn't think so" ;)

But I'm just thinkin'...... If I were a farmer or rancher who wanted the damn hogs the hell off o' my property, would I rather pay a commercial operation to do it, or let the taxpayers pick up the tab in exchange for my providing the troops with a live-target firing range? Where are they supposed to practice up for their deployments, anyway?


Nope, I've never lived where there were hogs; I just know how biology works when it comes to reproductive output. Extra feed = extra piglets.

And yes, I do realize that these are the most destructive 4-legged animals since Mrs. O'Leary's cow.

And just to circle back a bit...

I do not object to aerial killing of hogs. I DO object to posting the video of it, portraying the shooter as some kind of an action hero, and attempting to market the experience to a bunch of sadistic, FUBastards who want to do it for 'fun'.

And yes, I do believe that there is an ethical distinction - a very substantial one - between a professional hog-control outfit wounding a pig and flying on to the next bunch, vs. a 'recreational' shooter doing the same thing. The pros have a business to run and clients to serve, so their obligation is to kill as many pigs per hour of flight time as they possibly can.

But just as anyone who can afford to do this can afford all the lawyers they might need, anyone who can afford to do it can also afford to take responsibility for finishing the job on a poor hit.

As I said before, it's not about the hogs, it's about humans behaving like pigs!











And FWIW, there ought to be a way to turn their intelligence against them.... If the sound of the latch on a kennel will send them running, why not set out some electronic calling units, only instead of varmint call tracks, use any number of sounds that they would associate with a threat and have the callers set to play the sounds in random sequence at random intervals. Somebody once did a study where they literally stressed a bunch of sheep to death just by sounding a loud buzzer at unpredictable intervals. Keep the hogs jumpy enough, and you'll sure as shootin' cut into their reproductive rate. And as a bonus, if they get habituated to the different sounds, then they should be a lot easier to surprise when you actually do go after them :D

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Sounds like you got it figured out. I guess we've seen the end of Feral Hogs as we know them. Be glad you don't have feral hogs where you live and hunt. As far as sheep go, I don't know much about them either but I've heard others say that they will die for lack of anything better to do. They are the epitomal domesticated animal aside from the milk cow and those two are the most stress sensitive animals around. Hogs on the other hand seem to thrive on stress. They deal with it by having their azz follow their nose.

Like I said it's illegal to shoot from aircraft commercially and those Class II or III (what ever they are) licenses for full auto weapons don't come cheap either. I imagine the liability issue with the whole activity(even commercial) is pretty steep. The only places I've heard of it being done is on very large ranches.

Alan

[GF.]

What are you guys seeing?

Bush - it's just helmet-cam footage of a guy with a laser-sighted semi-auto going to town shooting up pigs from a helicopter. They show a lot of hits, probably edited out a fair number of misses, and left in a few that were pretty obviously less-than-immediately fatal.

Basically - IMO - they're trying to sell the whole experience as the ultimate video-game and they want their potential customers to lobby to legalize it.

In any event, it's about as fantastic as it gets for someone like PETA who wants to put hunting a really bad light.

Makes me ornery!:mad:




Besides - somebody had ta stir up the campfahr... Gettin' a bit slow 'round here.... :D

[Bill Mc]

I didn't title it, hog hunting but hog control. Read the disclaimer at the front.

As for the hogs left laying around. As Josie Wales said, "buzzards gotta eat too"

[Hi Ball]

It looks like to me, that a group from the area where those hogs thriving could take things into their own hands with help of local conservation and get rid of those hogs. It may take a month or two but they would be dead!

You don't even have to stalk those critters, just bait and shoot them at 200 yards, bingo dead hogs. Now if the locals can't handle the problem or shoot good enough, just let some out of staters come in and I will give you odds those Good Ole Boys from MISSOURI will GETTERDONE gents.;):D:D

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Hi Ball, I understand from my Missouri connections that the MO game dept has finally suggested that feral hogs be shot on sight. This after I read while up there about four years ago that they weren't so adamant about it. I will garandamntee that Texas boys can shoot, and 200 yards ain't even a warm-up. Everybody I know shots every hog they can any time they can. We've been at this for years killing them any way we can and as many as we can. They're still here. I ca only imagine how many there would be if we didn't kill them. We probably wouldn't be able to go outside. We bait them with everything that they'll eat up to and including 1000 acre corn fields. We can't kill them fast enough. #1 son killed a bunch at a cattle feeder on e night with a 270. The first shot killed five or six as they were lined up eating. They were back just as strong the next night and the next, never diminishing in numbers. They finally got tired of the shooting and moved on to the next set of pens. He couldn't get near them after that. If he tried to sneak up they would leave, if he laid for them they would circle till they winded him and go on off to the next pens. He ran them every night with dogs and killed and killed and killed until he was tired of it. He was involved in deer numbers reduction at the time too and they were killing 250 does each for 4 guides. When he quit that job he did not hunt (shoot an animal) for two years he was so tired of killing.

Missouri will get their chance to deal with feral hogs. Lots of corn fields in Missouri. Good luck.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

Alt -

It's not about the hogs, it's about so-called 'hunters' behaving like pigs. And FWIW, aerial shooting of wolves and coyotes was/is far less justifiable to begin with; natural, native predators have a rightful place in the areas they inhabit; hogs do not.

In any case, for a professional outfit doing control work, bad hits are an unavoidable bit of ugliness that comes with the territory. Insects? Poisons? Don't be ridiculous. A) the poisons work fairly quickly (else they would never have been approved for use) and B) once they've been ingested, no further action is required to ensure that the pest in question will expire in a reasonably timely fashion. The 'exterminator' has now done all that can be expected of someone who has a business to run.

But there are no commercial operations - exterminator services, research labs or or slaughterhouses as examples - which are permitted to operate with wanton disregard for animal welfare, so the fact that the aerial shooting is allowed to go on at all can only be taken as a sign of the seriousness of the problem - desperate times calling for desperate measures, I suppose...

And the individual farmers and ranchers taking targets of opportunity? SoTex and I have already covered that. Not only does he have a direct stake in the equation, but he's willing to take a reasonable amount of responsibility to finish off any wounded animals as quickly and reliably as possible.

But the paying clients that the helicopter operation is looking for aren't (by and large) thinking about doing this out of 'desperation'; they're doing it to get their rocks off by killing things.

For someone to engage in wholesale slaughter and call it 'sport' is twisted enough; to go about it with a total disregard for the consequences of their bad hits is just beyond repugnant. It is completely sick.

If you disagree with that, then fine, let's agree to disagree, but unlike my agreement with SoTex, I will reserve my respect for your opinions on other matters.


And speaking of other matters...



And you think that allowing that this sort of portrayal of 'sport' hunting is somehow going to help?:confused:

Personally, I'd prefer letting the military handle the hogs, same as the feral goats that were (last I heard) systematically destroying the Hawaiian islands. If honest-to-God door-gunners and attack pilots need some target practice, then let's turn them loose on the project. It won't eliminate bad hits, but I'd wager that the quick kill percentages would jump pretty quickly when the guys are able to fire in bursts.

Feeders....

You're starting to remind me of the people who say that we shouldn't shoot coyotes because it makes them breed faster through 'compensatory reproduction'.... :rolleyes:

All animals will reproduce at the highest rate that the food base will support; once the on-going caloric requirements of the females are met, everything beyond that goes into additional offspring. Feeders haven't caused the problem, but to suggest that all that corn hasn't provided an effective accelerant simply defies the biology. Especially in a species which has been selectively bred over the years to be extremely efficient at converting calories into protein and stored fat, which can be easily carried over from 'feeding season' to the breeding season.

I asked a question and again got an opinion. You stated as FACT that feeders are a major cause of the growth of feral hog populations. As Alan and others, myself included have opined a feeder kicking out a quart or so of dried corn is not feeding deer and a herd of swine. It is a snack. To be clear please provide the source that provided this factual knowledge of yours.

Concerning your first paragraph the first sentence is simply judging another mans ethics which is irrevelant as long as it is legal. Sheep ranchers in the vast expanses of the west or game managers in wilderness Alaska would likely differ with the rest f your opinions expressed in that paragraph.

As a fellow who was a pest control technician a few years I found your second paragraph very interesting. I had never realized that insecticides or rodenticides had to meet a certain "knock down" time. Since again you provided that as fact would you share those standards for approval and who establishes them? I'll ask the same about your first sentence of your next paragraph.:)

Concerning paragraph 5 and 6 I do not see it in any different light than live pigeon shoots which are still conducted internationally as far as I know. Again it is the shooting of a common pest as a shooting event, not hunting. You are the only person in this thread that had dared call helicopter gunnery a "sport hunting" event.

Your comments about using Military assets show a lack of understanding of the abilities of automatic weapons which would cause more wounding than the semi-autos seen here. The comment also shows the lack of understanding you have of the aircraft. Training hours in aviation probably are not as limited now, but most of time is spent in training to move in formations and other things than gunnery. Gunnery is now automated to such a degree that relatively little time is spent there. The cost of flying a small piston powered bubble helo compares to that of a turbine powered heavy lift military craft is like comparing the cost per hour of running a Hyundia to a Peterbuilt and trailer. Theres almost as much difference in size as well.:D

But again primarily I am asking the source of these facts and all this knowledge you are sharing with us. :)

[pepaw]

"Besides - somebody had ta stir up the campfahr... Gettin' a bit slow 'round here.... "

Yep, you got me. :o

Feral pigs cause every landowner in TX I know to make a ugly face and shake their head.

out

pepaw

[vashper]

Musik in this video isn't stilish. This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU
would be better

[dave-t.]

The only thing wrong with the original video is that they weren't using buckshot.

I don't care one iota how feral hogs are killed so long as they are killed in big numbers. I'd be O.K. with poison if they could contain it.

Also, the idea of having paying customers shooting from the helo may not be such a bad idea if it pays in full the bill of the depredation trip. As a land owner, if you had the option of paying a pro to shoot, or having a guy pay the bill for the shooting, well, you'd get a lot more helo trips around the property if it cost you little to nothing, and at that point, 5 free trips may work out better for kill numbers than one full price helo trip with a pro.

I'm also the type of guy that would shoot a groundhog burrowing under a shed in the arse if that's the shot I have. I care more about the shed than the groundhog, and sometimes that's the way to progress.

When it comes right down to it, eliminating pest's is not a pretty job. It will never look good or be held up in sporting/ethical/fair chase standards. You'd be wasting time trying to make it fit into those critera and be successful with the job at hand, which is dealing out death, regardless of fair play.

Some hogs may or may not have been wounded in the effort to eradicate them. :confused::confused: Uh, yep.

[Altjaeger]

The only thing wrong with the original video is that they weren't using buckshot.

I don't care one iota how feral hogs are killed so long as they are killed in big numbers. I'd be O.K. with poison if they could contain it.

Also, the idea of having paying customers shooting from the helo may not be such a bad idea if it pays in full the bill of the depredation trip. As a land owner, if you had the option of paying a pro to shoot, or having a guy pay the bill for the shooting, well, you'd get a lot more helo trips around the property if it cost you little to nothing, and at that point, 5 free trips may work out better for kill numbers than one full price helo trip with a pro.

I'm also the type of guy that would shoot a groundhog burrowing under a shed in the arse if that's the shot I have. I care more about the shed than the groundhog, and sometimes that's the way to progress.

When it comes right down to it, eliminating pest's is not a pretty job. It will never look good or be held up in sporting/ethical/fair chase standards. You'd be wasting time trying to make it fit into those critera and be successful with the job at hand, which is dealing out death, regardless of fair play.

Some hogs may or may not have been wounded in the effort to eradicate them. :confused::confused: Uh, yep.

Well said! Save me the self righteous, ficticious bull puckey.

[pepaw]

I understand the buckshot ammo is harder on the shoulder.
Not to mention it's easier to carry 2-300 rounds of the .223. The shotguns are used more in the rice fields where the helicopter can stay lower also.

pepaw

[Danny Boy]

A few candies once in a while is a treat. When you have too many in an uncontrollable fashion, it becomes a pain as in tooth ache.

I wish we have hog hunting in Ontario to supplement deer (two weeks) and moose (one week); not to mention that pork is pretty good to eat. Our hunting season is too short IMO.

I don’t know what else to say!

[StringJumper]

I wish we have hog hunting in Ontario to supplement deer (two weeks) and moose (one week); not to mention that pork is pretty good to eat. Our hunting season is too short IMO.

I know what you are trying to say but trust me, it was this mentality that got us where we are today. Hogs are great until you get two of them, and then it's too late. When I think of the feral pig problem here in Georgia I am reminded of the guy who said "well, it seemed like a good idea at the time".

[Hi Ball]

The only way you are going to eradicate all those ferrel hogs, it to put a hunting season on them and let hunters come out and take care of business! Local gun clubs setting up hunts on various farms, going down the list as they go. I am not in favor of using "Chopper" and having hunters shoot out the side doors. However, I am in favor of state mandated hunts for those pesky critters.

[GF.]

Sport hunting won't do it, Hi-Ball. Look at the effort that was required to eradicate wolves and lions, for example, and then think about how much greater the reproductive output of hogs...

Getting the piggies under control is going to take a very serious, hard-hearted effort by people getting paid to do it, yes; but that's a far cry from justifying a 'wound it and leave it' mindset among people who are killing the pigs on what is - ultimately - a recreational basis....

Those who were paying attention will recall that I do not object to using choppers to get at these beasts, not do I hold any real grudge against the gunners over the fact that not all the pigs go down as quickly as we'd like for them to go. But that's a far cry from trying to make it into a high-priced video game for overgrown adolescents who just wanna go out and git sum!

[Sabre]

We've got a fledgling hog population just getting started here in NY. Bad news if you're a farmer but I'm not a farmer anymore. On the plus side, I like pork, so if a farmer wants to GIVE me permission, I'll be happy to lend him a hand thinning out his hog population. If he won't let me hunt them FOR FREE he can go piss up a rope and I hope the hogs eat him right out of business. The way I see it, a hunter would have to be a real dumbass to PAY a farmer to kill these PESTS off for him.

[GF.]

Seems to me that if you can charge people money to come shoot 'em, they're no longer much of a pest.

More of a cash crop at that point, no?

I wonder how many years it takes to go from charging people an access fee for pig 'hunting'... to letting 'em on to shoot them for free.... to begging them to come out and shoot some.... to paying a hired gun to come after them.... to bringing in the gun ships....

But there's just something a little sick about selling wholesale slaughter as 'entertainment'.


At any rate, Sabre, if you know of anybody with a hog problem in the SE corner of the state..... :D

I might have even worse luck on hogs than I had on deer this year, but that's not to say that I wouldn't enjoy a chance to try 'em....

[Sidekick]

We've got a hog population in Missouri. There is basically an anything goes approach to hunting them and while some do get killed the only approach that has worked at reducing their numbers is the hired guns (shooting and trapping). The weekend hunters patrolling the woods or the locals that pop the occasional target of opportunity aren't controlling the population. I've seen some of the hog hunting packages advertised in Texas and I've considered trying it sometime but I have a problem with paying someone $500 for a weekend of hunting something that gets shot on sight anyway.

[Sabre]

Seems to me that if you can charge people money to come shoot 'em, they're no longer much of a pest.

More of a cash crop at that point, no?

I wonder how many years it takes to go from charging people an access fee for pig 'hunting'... to letting 'em on to shoot them for free.... to begging them to come out and shoot some.... to paying a hired gun to come after them....

I don't know GF but it wasn't that many years ago {25-30} when it wasn't uncommon to see farmers posting ads in the local paper here offering a dollar a head to anyone willing to come shoot woodchucks off their property. Course that was back in the day before hunters hereabouts would even consider paying to hunt for anything. As a group, we sure as hell haven't been getting any "smarter" over the years IMO. I'd be willing to bet money that if every deer hunter in NY would quit begging for permission or offering money to lease, it wouldn't take more than three or four years before you'd start seeing farmers putting ads in the paper offering so much per head to come shoot the damned things.

[Altjaeger]

I guess as long as you keep trying to export CT ideas and solutions to Texas I will start paying attention when chicken fried steak becomes your states dish!!!

You remind me a bit of Brownie who believed that if you did not hunt deer like he did in Maine you were cheating. :biggrin:

[Hi Ball]

Controlling the wild pigs and hogs is something that should have been worked out a long time ago by the various states. Not to do so is costing ranchers, golf courses, farmers and many others a lot of money period. I myself see nothing wrong in those states setting up a hunting season or two if needed to get rid of those damageing critters. Uncontrolled hogs can really do a lot of damage over night and they reproduce quickly. I personally think that it would be a good thing for states like TEXAS, who have this problem with these ferrel hogs, to implement such a season for hunters and offer cheap hunting tags to eradicate them from those invected area's.

[Hi Ball]

Sabre, I used to hunt groundhogs for several farmers in my county years ago back in the 60's & 70's! It sure put the damper on their groundhogproblem after the first years! No body paid us a dime, it was fun and we were happy to oblige the farmer. A couple of times we got asked to eat lunch and feed free, good cooking I might ad. I still believe that if they would put a spring and fall hunting season on these pigs & hogs, must of the problem would take care of itself in one year or two.

I for one don't wish to ride in a chopper to shoot my guns........no way gents! However, if the states want to use a chopper to elimanate those critters, I see nothing wrong in this ethically but I won't call it hunting in my book. This is simply animal control and anything goes!!! I am against using poison, as it will kill other animals possibly and I don't think they should suffer for the hogs problem. Now if any of you folks have problem with hogs or pigs, just ring my PM and I'll get a team together to help you out in a jackrabbit minute.

[southtexas]

Hi Ball: Opening a hog season in Tx is not the answer. The
"season" is already open: 24/7/365, day or night, any method, no tags
Required

[Altjaeger]

Hi Ball: Opening a hog season in Tx is not the answer. The
"season" is already open: 24/7/365, day or night, any method, no tags
Required
Is there an echo in here?:biggrin:

That has already been said several times but maybe it will soak in this time. Christmas I visited the farmer who is the neighbor of my hunting camp in East Texas. He had about two dozen in a pen that he had trapped in the previous month and had not even made a dent in the population. He was waiting to get his sons and grandsons together for a pig killing and butchering.

Oh, and East Texas is not the portion of the state with the greatest problem with feral hogs.

[Hi Ball]

EXCUSE ME!!! It looks to me like all those TEXAS hunters, could get off their arses and instead of using the rocking chair so much, go out and shoot friggin hogs on the weekend! They do have rattlesnake round ups in the state. Now why not a hog shooting contest or set up various dates for hunters to break out into the woods and fields with their guns. I guess most of the texas hunters don't like pork! I never knew so many Jewish people lived in Texas.........Ummmmmmm.

[Altjaeger]

EXCUSE ME!!! It looks to me like all those TEXAS hunters, could get off their arses and instead of using the rocking chair so much, go out and shoot friggin hogs on the weekend! They do have rattlesnake round ups in the state. Now why not a hog shooting contest or set up various dates for hunters to break out into the woods and fields with their guns. I guess most of the texas hunters don't like pork! I never knew so many Jewish people lived in Texas.........Ummmmmmm.

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis Folly to be wise." :biggrin:

Thomas Gray

[Hi Ball]

ALT since you live in TEXAS, there must be one hell of a lot of ignorance going around in your state, especially since you have a much larger problem than ever before right desk jockey soldier!!! Now go chew on that for the rest of the afternoon cosmo.

[pepaw]

What a relief! I just checked back in to see if I had replied earlier to the sage advice given to me and other ignorant Texans. Thank goodness I didn't hit send.

Can't wait till "ferral" pig season so I can find me some "invected" areas. And find a lock-on gun rest for this rocker.

pepaw

[Altjaeger]

ALT since you live in TEXAS, there must be one hell of a lot of ignorance going around in your state, especially since you have a much larger problem than ever before right desk jockey soldier!!! Now go chew on that for the rest of the afternoon cosmo.

As usual you speak long and loudly on which you know nothing whether it be the State, feral hogs or the man thereby only exposing your ignorance further.:tongue:

Now come on and fess up. You really live in downtown Manhattan as you have since birth. You have never had a drivers license or a car as you would have no place to park one. Besides the bus and cabs are far more convienent and less costly in the long run. The truth is you could not own a firearm if you wished to because of the Sullivan laws and the only dogs you have ever owned was cockapoos and minituare dachshunds. You live in a basement apartment and get sunlight through a 9"x30" window or by walking up to the street. The only time you ever left the city was to Buffalo with the 6th grade band.

You come in from your job baking pizza and you mom fixes you a snack as you give her a kiss. Then you go to your room, log on gaining 6" and loss 30 lbs. You no longer have asthma and the girls think you are just fine. There you dine on the finest of veal and most sophisticated of wines while remaining a bit mysterious. But the truth is that at age 43 you never got the nerve to ask a girl out on a date, the only wines you ever sampled were from Mogen-David and Boones Farm, and the finest steak you ever had was a steak sandwich. The most dangerous thing you've ever done was walk in Central Park. The only mystery about you is when you last washed your ears.

Now chew on that a while while the rest of us discuss hogs and hunting.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Pretty silly huh? A bit like your rubbish.

[Altjaeger]

We've got a hog population in Missouri. There is basically an anything goes approach to hunting them and while some do get killed the only approach that has worked at reducing their numbers is the hired guns (shooting and trapping). The weekend hunters patrolling the woods or the locals that pop the occasional target of opportunity aren't controlling the population.

Surely that can't be!!!:eek1:

Highball has assured us Missourri hunters could handle Texas' problem!!! I know they would be coming down here to solve a problem they cant solve at home!!!:wink::biggrin::biggrin:

[Hi Ball]

Alt..........I actually got a kick out of your post!!! Hell you should have been a poet perhaps instead of a freakin desk Sgt. for Uncle Sam!!!///.LOL--- Missouri has no problem as yet with hogs. There just aren't that many and anybody who say's they have a problem, is raising hogs in their back 40 acres, just so you know Gents. We are going out this next weekend to Mark Twain to try and find a couple, if we are lucky we might see a half dozen after 6 hours of searching the woods and wilderness.

How about YOU SGT. asking Mr. Sidekick just were all these Missouri Hogs seem to be as of late? I'll send you a Ham free of charge to chew on instead of your toes. LOL

[Sidekick]

http://www.mdc.mo.gov/landown/wild/nuisance/hogs/


The situation took a wrong turn in the 1990s when hog hunting for recreation began to gain popularity. Groups started raising and promoting European wild boar as a form of alternative agriculture and for hunting on licensed shooting areas. It wasn’t long before many of these hogs escaped or were intentionally released on public land.

Because feral hogs are highly adaptable and prolific breeders, their numbers started growing at an alarming rate. By 2000, the Conservation Department was receiving damage complaints from private landowners.

Today feral hog populations are established in over 20 south Missouri counties and sightings of feral hogs occur across the state.

This is from the Missouri Conservation website. I've hunted them in Iron and Dent county. Rough terrain and lots of sign but they are hard to locate.

[Altjaeger]

Alt..........I actually got a kick out of your post!!! Hell you should have been a poet perhaps instead of a freakin desk Sgt. for Uncle Sam!!!///.LOL--- Missouri has no problem as yet with hogs.

Good, because the objective was to make a point that you went off topic because you had no logical point by exagerating the bellicose scribblings you present.:smile: The operative word in you second sentence is the word "yet". As Sidekick's quote from you DNR demonstrates the show is coming your way soon.

You like most of us have areas of knowledge. As demonstrated by you here they do not include feral hogs, the state of Texas or my background.:ridinghorse:

[DUGABOY1]

Gentlemen, I don't know if it was those two guys in the chopper, but last week we had two chopper hog control guys killed in a chopper crash chaseing hogs.
In regards to Mr. Highball, he is simply full of himself, and it is evident that he knows zip about wild hogs, or the state of Texas. If he did he would have already known that like Obama land Chicagos rat and cockroach infestation, hogs are not easy to eradicate. Top that off with the fact hogs make a whitetails intelegence look like a retard, or about the same as the average Illnois colledge professor.

Their birth rate far outstretches the number of bullets you can get into the farms, woods, and hills of Texas where 98% of the land is privately owned, and it is a dumb rancher or farmer who simply opens his gates to a bunch of city slicker Know-it-alls with thier drive by AKs to sprey bullets through his cattle, and feeders, leaving his gates open for cattle to go where that want, that is if they survived the war! This state is 850 miles across in any dirrection you want to fly in a streight line, and that is a lot of land to work even if it were all public land. Highball, why don't you come on down and show us how it's done!

[Chuck S]

A few facts on the why a boom in pigs," as given by a Texan involved deeply in this epidemic:
“Constant introductions throughout Texas coupled with the high reproductive rate of swine and limited hunting pressure are probably the most significant factors. Feeding and baiting wildlife is the primary hunting technique used by Texas hunters and feral hogs are utilizing this practice to their advantage. Feral hogs are also benefitting from changing agricultural and land practices (farmland conversion to rangeland, better land management and improved livestock grazing practices by landowners). Farming has become much more productive and efficient and utilized by hogs. Water conservation has also increased and water supplies from stocktanks, lakes, and irrigation have benefitted wild hogs.
Diseases have historically helped keep the wild hog population in check. The eradication of the screworm has benefitted the wild hog as it did white-tailed deer. As commercial swine operators improved their operations and animal husbandry progressed, vaccinations curtailed most diseases among domestic breeds. These diseases could no longer be transmitted to a wild population which would then spread rapidly through that wild population. Now, commercial swine operator are fearful of diseases which the wild hogs can transmit to their commercial operation. In 1978, hog cholera, a deadly disease to hogs, was eradicated.”

HISTORY AND DISTRIBUTION OF FERAL HOGS IN TEXAS
RICHARD B. TAYLOR, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department,
P. O. Box 5207, Uvalde, Texas 78802
http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/feral/feral-6.htm

To summarize: New introductions that feed into the growing population. Secondly feeders. Thirdly changing agriculture/water and lastly diseases. Of these, pig health, or lack of disease would be my first choice as cause since the introductions were going on since the Spanish. Following that the feeders are feeding the epidemic. Yep they put out a few cups at a go but multiply that times the thousands in use and you have big problems. Both wildgame and domesticated farm animals are fed via feeder and these have multiplied in use over the past couple of decades.

[pepaw]

We feed at my place to enable us to trap and kill more hogs. We move traps near the feeders and occassional "set" the traps Without feeders, it would be difficult to locate them often enought to make a difference with a gun.
The tiny bit of corn each pig gets sure ain't make it healthier or improving its reproduction rates. Our protein feeders are all fenced to keep cattle, javelinas and pigs out.

I feel like more and more suburban areas being developed in TX aad closed to hunting allowing the pigs to multiply near the big cities. Along with the weekend ranchers who are not killing pigs on the places they own in the country or allowing hunters on their "places in the country".
pepaw

[Chuck S]

Good points! I'm sure that folks like you who are careful about their feeders aren't contributing a lot to the problem at all but note that the exerpt above included commercial feeders for cattle and other livestock. I think that your comment, "I feel like more and more suburban areas being developed in TX aad closed to hunting allowing the pigs to multiply near the big cities. Along with the weekend ranchers who are not killing pigs on the places they own in the country or allowing hunters on their "places in the country", " is right on the money also!

[pepaw]

Good thing about hogs at our corn feeders. They quickly learn to come after dark. And by then, the does have cleaned up anything thrown that afternoon.
If a feeder goes off before daylight, it is much more apt to attract pigs than one set a little later.

I know one large livestock operation near us in Atascosa Co., TX that has a hog problem. Huge herds (over 100) of pigs have been seen headed to and from there.

pepaw