.22 mag or .17 HMR

[sharpshooter94]

Hey guys,
I'm hoping that you can help me out of a predicament. I am trying to decide over a .22 mag or .17 HMR for ground squirrels to coyotes and groundhogs and the like. Which one would be the best in terms of humane kills at a maximum of 100 yards. I'm leaning toward .22 mag but tell me what you think.

[Sidekick]

I'm no fan of the .17 at all. But a .22 mag isn't the best choice for coyotes either. Yeah it can work but coyotes are pretty tough. But if you're dead set on one or the other the .22 mag is the best of the two in my opinion. If you really want a fairly quiet small caliber round for varmints I think a .22 Hornet would be pretty cool.

[LampLighter]

You get to shoot a heavier bullet . If I were you I would look very, very hard at scope choice to place that .22 in ol coyote's head :cool:

I suggest you highly consider a Weaver Grand Slam or Target model. The latter if you are in open ag field country.

[Don Wald]

Sharpshooter,

I agree with Sidekick that the .22WMR is underpowered for coyotes. I've owned both the .22WMR and the .17HMR and the .22WMR has the edge as the range increases.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/DWald_photos/MarlinM17V-2.jpg

[Scout]

To mirror what's been said....the .22 mag is on the lower edge of acceptable coyote medicine. For groundhogs.....groundsquirrels.....tree rats.....etc......my vote goes for the .22 mag just because of the slightly heavier bullet.

In reality....I can't tell the difference on small game. I've got a Savage in .22 Mag and a Savage in .17 HMR and they both seem to kill effectively within the 100 range mark.

[AK-49]

the 17 HMR gains the edge after 100 yds or so

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

[Sabre]

the 17 HMR gains the edge after 100 yds or so

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

Only in trajectory, not in killing power or energy delivered to the target. In fact, the best {most aerodynamic}.22 magnum loads carry as much energy at 150 yards as the HMR does at 100. I have killed a lot of game with both cartridges. They are about equally effective on woodchuck sized game out to 150 yards. On anything bigger than chucks, the .22 mag. is definitely the more effective round.

[dave-t.]

Predator hunters love the 17 for fox and bobcat, but 'yotes can take a bit more punishment than them. It has been used successfully on yotes, but it is hardly a one shot stopper in every situation.

I'd look at what I was going to hunt 90% of the time, and what rannges for 90%, and buy the gun that is best suited.

If you're not keeping yote hides, (with todays values why would you...) a typical deer rifle will fill that niche, and shoot your rimfire for smaller game.

Of course a low end .22 center fire like the .22 hornet or .221 fireball would also fill the niche including yotes. It would be better if you reloaded for that though.

Another one to look at is the 5mm Rem rimfire. I've never shot one, but from what I have heard, one of those would do the trick out past 125yds on small-medium game. I would consider the 5mm before either the .22 mag or 17hmr if I was set on a rimfire..

[sharpshooter94]

Wouldn't a head shot be potent on coyotes with either the .22 mag or .17 HMR. If so then the .17 would win for the higher level of accuracy. But really I haven't looked at possible guns yet so the cost will probably sway me one way or the other. To the centerfire caliber suggestions: I don't reload so it would be harder to find a good load for any of the lower caliber centerfires. And Don do you photograph all of your guns in the same place?

[jayd4wg]

+1 for the 22WMR. I never bought into the 17 hooplah...and if you are a good shot and do your part, you will find a round that your 22WMR likes and you will shoot it well.

My Marlin 882SSV consistently prints 1" at 100yds with remington 33 gr premium pills.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6BgyWWHL4ZrBUCg89mHVSA?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj0nKbCq7v_Z g&feat=directlink

[Smokey]

I prefer the 22WMR. I have always felt this cartridge to be under rated. It has good accuracy for small game at longer ranges. Not overly expensive to shoot.

I have the same rifle Don displayed in the photo and it is not overly expensive yet it is very accurate.

I think I have seen around 5 coyotes shot with the 22WMR. All were killed with one shot. Only one made it 20 yards before dropping. All the yotes were within 50 yards.

[Greywolf]

The 22 Mag over the 17 any day.
But neither is that potent at the distance of 100 yds.
If you do not have the butt of thier ear in the cross hairs, don't shoot.

As many said, a small cased .22 CF (ie hornet-223-221) is a better bet.

[Bayrat]

As said, 22 wmr minimum. A .223 or there abouts would be even better yet.

I've had quite a few woodchucks run after good solid hits to the boiler room at little over 100 yards with a CCI maxi-mag 40 gr hp. It hits so hard you can hear the slap, but still some run. And a yote is ALOT tougher than that.

The hay fields I hunt offer few shots under a hundred. After having the occational runners, I switched to using a .223. No more thwack-n-runs. The .223 slams them to the ground and they don't move.

And head shots only are fine in a perfect world. But it ain't perfect out there. You'd be limiting yourself to 'maybe' a good shot at one of the smallest parts of the animal ..... and the part that's usually moving the most.

Bayrat.

[Hi Ball]

Sharpshooter94......I think you have the real picture, coyotes are to much for either caliber ok. Now for ground squirrels, oppsum, coon and groundhogs under 75 yards, I favor the .22mag. Coons get a dose of FMJ Winchesters!
To many bad angles for head shots with a .22mag and I have never run a penetration test on a .17 If you really want a Jim Dandy little rifle to cover all those bases, think terms of a Remington .222 caliber.;)

[Hi Ball]

The Ruger .204 is much better suited than either the .22mag or the 17-HMR calbier for coyotes! I have now used my 17-HMR lately on squirrels but was not impressed with those kills ok. I was told of all the explosive traits this caliber has on small animals like P-dogs, squirrels etc. but I have not seen such as of yet. The rifle is a Savage model 17 with bull barrel but accuracy is not as good as I would like for 5 shot groups. The first two shots are always no more than 3/8 inch apart and the 3rd shot is another 3/4 inch apart. I have tried several brands of ammo and this 3 shot trait with the rifle on paper is always the same......don't know, maybe the barrel.

Now for those who are really serious about coyotes, I would look elsewhere than a .22mag or 17 HMR calibers! The .204 Ruger, .222 Remington, .223 are much better suited for those pesky Song Dogs coyote hunters. My battery of coyote calibers includes a .204 Ruger (new) .222 Remington, .243 Winchester, 25-06 as it will reach out and touch Mr. Yote at over 400 yards if need be ok.

[Sabre]

I have now used my 17-HMR lately on squirrels but was not impressed with those kills ok. I was told of all the explosive traits this caliber has on small animals like P-dogs, squirrels etc. but I have not seen such as of yet. The rifle is a Savage model 17 with bull barrel but accuracy is not as good as I would like for 5 shot groups. The first two shots are always no more than 3/8 inch apart and the 3rd shot is another 3/4 inch apart. I have tried several brands of ammo and this 3 shot trait with the rifle on paper is always the same......don't know, maybe the barrel.

Must be something wrong with your rifle and your ammo. My Marlin 17 shoots into 3/4" at 100 for 5 shots and blows the living hell out of squirrels.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I only have a 22 mag in a Ruger Single Six. But my buddy Gator uses one exclusively for Alligators. The little bullets do a number on the walnut sized gator brains and they do not go through to spoil the hide on the underside. The range is measured in single digit feet. I don't now and probably never will purposely own a 17 of any kind.

I do have a 222 Rem on a Sako Action and a 222 mag on a Mod 700 Action. Both have dispatched with great expediency and with some degree of regularity animals from starling size to mature 10 pt bucks. Bullets and bullet placement is the key.

Now sidekick mentioned the 22 Hornet. My dad has one and it is a fantastic round if you reload, something that you can't do with a 22 mag or a 17.

Alan

[Bushman]

I was waiting for a report on that .17 HMR from Hi Ball. By squirrels I assume those Eastern Grays are the targets of opportunity. One has only to skin one of those little varmints to realize that their hide is stuck on really well and reinforced with some pretty strong squirrel stuff. The ones that I've shot don't fragment very easily.

[Sabre]

I was waiting for a report on that .17 HMR from Hi Ball. By squirrels I assume those Eastern Grays are the targets of opportunity. One has only to skin one of those little varmints to realize that their hide is stuck on really well and reinforced with some pretty strong squirrel stuff. The ones that I've shot don't fragment very easily.

I've had my 17 HMR since 2002 and have shot alot of game and targets with it. I've never seen any bullet in any caliber that is as frangible/explosive as the 17 grain V-Max from the HMR. Used on gray squirrels it absolutely hammers them and is very destructive. With head shots it typically removes the ENTIRE head clear back to the shoulders. A shot through the shoulders will remove the entire off side shoulder/ front leg and a good sized portion of the offside ribcage, leaving a ragged, gaping exit hole. A behind the shoulder lung shot blows away the entire offside ribcage and takes the entire contents of the chest cavity right along with it. Shot into a 2 liter pop bottle full of water, the bullet does not exit but fragments completely within and will be found in the bottom of the bottle in tiny, salt grain sized pieces of lead, copper and red plastic. In short, I don't know how much more damage anyone could ever want or need to do to squirrel sized game or how much faster you could possibly make them stone cold DEAD.

[Hi Ball]

I have tried several types and bullet weights in the 17HMR and settled on the one that was the most accurate for the Savage rifle I purchased. The ammo I have been using is in fact CCI --- 17HMR TNT "explosive" Jacketed Hollow Point 2550 fps. On squirrels hit behind the shoulder, I get an entry wound but no exist wound~! I have yet to hit one of those critters in the head. I am going to change scopes and opt for more magnification 4 x 12 to help out my eyes. These shots have taken place between 50 and 65 yards.