Tips for first time elk hunter

[JMGRAHAM]

Hi all, i got selected for a late season cow elk hunt for Unit 34 in New mexico..... Close to alamogordo & cloudcroft. I've hunted all my life... but all my experience is in western PA and for a short time being stationed in western missouri.

I've got all the basic stuff... good rifle and optics, but i'm looking for the simple stuff a rookie might forget. I.E. Chap stick, surveyors tape... little things that i'll really need when i'm 20 miles from any store.

What do most of you do for water? Pack in or have a filtration system?

Any help appreciated!
Jon

[rimrock]

OVER THE YEARS IVE LEARNED A FEW THINGS THAT SOME OF THE GUYS OVERLOOK SO I FELT I SHOULD POINT THEM OUT TO HELP, ESPECIALLY,! THE NEWER GUYS

now in no particular order, a few things that get overlooked OR IGNORED that YOU DO NEED TO BE AWARE OF if you intend to be successful!


first it makes no sense at all to be wasting time hunting ELK where they are FEW and where theres little chance of seeing one!
DO THE HOMEWORK, talk to the biologists, wardens,ranchers,ETC.
while they can,t tell you exactly where the herd is they can usually point to areas they are not currently using!
don,t ignore the low elevations , if theres good water and cover elk can and do go into rolling hills and even creek bottoms at times.
yet year after year I see guys hunt, the whole season,in the same drainage from the same camp site, simply because they occasionally see ELK SIGN,
ELK cover a VAST area, you NEED to locate the herds, and hunt the areas the herd is CURRENTLY IN THAT DAY!!! to be successful on a regular basis
you need to move camp, to follow the herds

tips
locate the water and food sources, especially in dry areas as this tends to hold the herds to some extent at least during part of the day

locate natural travel restrictors, like rivers,canyons,highways, high fence lines, sadles on ridges, steep cliffs,ETC. while they may not stop elk they tend to route the herds

WATCH THE WIND, and stay out of prime bedding areas or youll be likely to push the herd out of your immediate area.

don,t push the cows, while a bull may circle, spook a cow badly and she may travel to the next drainage

don,t call unless you can really sound reasonably like an ELK bad calling HURTS not helps, you need to practice useing real elk on tapes to get both the sound and cadence correct


next
the HUNTING PARTNERS you choose can go a long way towards making or breaking a hunt!
make very sure ALL the details of who pays what, or who is responsible for what, is firmly set before the hunt,and its almost always better to have a small group than one new guy on an out of state hunt! while its best to check out new guys on short local hunts first , that's not always an option. but it makes little sense to cancel a hunt early you've waited all year for and spent big bucks on, so choose your partners with great care!


next
glass constantly,travel light,be prepared to move as needed!,and DON,T expect to see much from the roads! you NEED to put in some effort and get AWAY from the easy access areas to increase your chances.
if your archery hunting youll usually have the advantage of fewer hunters as competition and you might even have the RUT and be able to call ELK, but even when you DON,T carry and use a COW CALL, it can allow you to get in closer in many cases

next
your clothes should be BOTH quite and warm, dull in color at a minimum and hopefully in a camo that matches the area your hunting.FLEECE camo is a PLUS in most cases
boots that fit, and have good ankle support are extremely important.

next
carry lots of water and aspirin, Excedrin etc. as altitude sickness is common and a real P.I.T.A., head aches , nausea ,are real and common youll feel like crap for the first 24-36 hours but drink lots of liquids and take pain killers and it slowly passes so don,t let it end your hunt

next
nothing that flashes, reflects light, clinks,creaks, rattles,squeeks,smells.or krinkles needs or should be with you, keep in the shadows and don,t expose yourself on ridge tops

next
take the time to practice EXTENSIVELY with your weapon of choice!
if you can,t make the first shot count, you probably are NOT going to be successfull on a regular basis


next
get closer than 350 yards from the game,where range estimates are easier
and use 200-250 grain speeror hornady bullets and place your shots precisely, practice and use a lazer range finder, and that blood trailing will stop being a problem:D

http://www.dundeesportsmansclub.com/Dundee%20Pic/elkshotplacement.pdf

next
learn to use TOPO MAPS
they can give you a good deal of info if you understand both the ELK and human nature
as an example
if you look over an area and one area is rolling hills with roads and camp grounds every few miles while the other area is steep cliffs,thick timbered slopes and no road access, you can be reasonably sure that after opening day, the ELK will retreat to the more distant areas andand less accessable areas and that the areas nearer the roads will soon appear as a PUMPKIN PATCH of orange jackets, with few ELK, sure a few ELK will be shot durring the herds movement, but the better hunters will take advantage of both the movement and the remote areas potential.
use topo maps and GLASS constantly, ELK DON,T like BUZY areas and ROAD TRAFFIC look for areas that won,t have a lot of people simply because they are more difficult to reach easily
generally NORTH and EAST facing slopes and thick timber will be where ELK hang out rather than the more open and less timbered south and west facing slopes

NEXT
no matter what physical shape you THINK your in...EXERCISE MORE OFTEN, it WILL help! trust me! constant walking at 7000-11000 ft of altitude comon to ELK hunts, ESPECIALL with a HEAVY backpack is a TOTALLY differant deal than it seems to be at lower altitudes,
drink plenty of liquids and take things easy the first few days

next
never shoot an ELK unless you have both the ability and skill/tools/manpower to get that ELK out of the area and processed in a reasonable time frame and without wasting the meat

a couple items Ive found are MANDATORY are a good hat with a brim to shade your eyes,
a decent knife that's small enough to dress game
and a second one large enough for cutting firewood or a small tomahawk.
a sleeping bag that will keep you warm below -10F, a thick insulated sleeping pad and a plastic tarp to insulate both from ground moisture, and a water proof poncho that won,t stiffen up badly at 30-36F
good boots with a decent cleat sole,and insulation
a good fleece light weigh jacket to wear under your parka
wool socks, and a good light but easy to compress ,bulky pull over sweater to wear under the light jacket
several bic lighters
a cell phone comes in handy at times

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?cm_sz=Tall&type=product&id=0012472932193a


http://home.att.net/~sajackson/elk.html

http://members.tripod.com/~elkhunter2/

http://www.bowhunting.net/NAspecies/blood.jpg

after nearly 40 years of hunting ELK, Id suggest you think about this,
on your first couple hunts (especially if your young or its likely to be a rare treat to hunt elk,) ANY legal elk is a TROPHY and youll be foolish in my opinion to pass on any legal elk on public land, if its private land with low pressure Id spend the first 1/3rd of your hunt time holding out for something decent over legal minimums but after that Id drop the first legal elk you see!
but after you've killed a dozen, or two dozen or more in the last 40 years and you've got some age and wisdom, and your back vertebra remember those canyons you start to look at where the elk is, and how difficult packing him out will be unless its an really exceptional specimen, before you drop some elk far back in a deep canyon miles from roads.
packing several hundred pounds of elk out of some deep canyon, or even out over rolling hills in brush country without mules or a truck is HARD WORK, and the dry ice required , and the trips to get it,to keep it frozen over days gets expensive

[Wild_Bill_Hiccup]

I think that Rimrock has done a fine job of addressing your query and so I'll simply stress the importance of scent control and learning the movements of elk in the area that you intend to hunt. Obviously learning elk movements requires time in a given area, but nothing wll prove more beneficial to you than a lot of time afield scouting an area (areas).

Contrary to what most probably think, elk movements can be paterned much like whitetails... but this depends a lot on the food and water sources in the area, whether the herds are basically local or migrant and whether the herds are being bothered by hunting pressure/people not being very aware of their scent control. Human scent will change the movements of large mature bulls more than anything else, so just be aware of the wind at all times and use a combo of good personal hygiene and scent control/cover products.

I have no idea about human drinking water sources in New Mexico and so I'd rather not advise on that issue. I have never packed in any water in my 29 years of backcountry elk hunting in Montana and Idaho.

Good luck!

[rimrock]

btw don,t think , your under gunned with a 257 Roberts,6.5mm Swedish,308 win,30/06, 270 win,7mm Mauser etc. or that those calibers won,t be large enough to effectively drop elk in skilled hands, they would NOT be my first choice
like a ( 358 win,35 whelen,338 win,340 wby, 300 win mag, 375 H&H) would be but its not the rifles as much as the skill of the guy whos using it that matters
most of the guys I hunt with use the second group but most of us have used calibers in the first group with good results

just site in at about 3" high and get very familiar with your rifle at the range from sitting and standing positions, print a trajectory chart and laminate it and tape it to your stock for instant access, get a decent sling and a bi-pod that works from a sitting height (27") is a big asset at times (theres no bench rest in the canyons)
most of my elk rifles that might be used at longer ranges have one, but in the last 40 plus years Id say 90% or more of the elk Ive seen taken were killed at under 300 yards, and a hold on the area over the heart, with the cross hairs and a slow steady trigger pull, was all that was required

http://www.harrisbipods.com/HB25CS.html

what I find amazing is the guys that work endlessly to shoot 1" or smaller groups of a bench rest, who then go hunting with the rifle ,never having practiced from field positions or with a sling, and then can,t understand why their 1" rifle can,t hit a deer or elk at 100 yards to save their live,.
if you don,t know how to shoot from a standing or sitting position, without that darn bench rest,how in hell do you expect to hunt???
my 340 will shoot reasonably tight 1.2" groups off the bench, but with a bi-pod in the field a 2" groups fairly common, and theres no elk Ive ever seen that a rifle that shoots a 4"-5" group at 200 yards won,t kill
but Ive put up 10" diam. paper plates thumb tacked to the backers at 100 yard ranges for 30 plus years and placed a 2" orange dot on the center and used those as targets, for shooting off hand,and sitting, Ive had guys snicker when I hit just off the orange dot,firing almost as fast as I can work the action for three shots in practice and Ive yet to find one of the guys that was laughing that could keep all 3 quick shots anyplace on the plate, when challenged
a bench rest allows you to get the sights precise, but its a sling, a decent bi-pod and practice that results in becoming a decent shot, and that practice means its almost mandatory that you hand load with today's ammo cost

[Wild_Bill_Hiccup]

what I find amazing is the guys that work endlessly to shoot 1" or smaller groups of a bench rest, who then go hunting with the rifle ,never having practiced from field positions or with a sling, and then can,t understand why their 1" rifle can,t hit a deer or elk at 100 yards to save their...???

Another excellent point! Over the years, I've seen some awfully poor field shooting from guys paying substantial sums to travel all the way across the country in order to miss their trophy!

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh65/wild_bill_hiccup/MTrifleElk_Deb076.jpg

[JMGRAHAM]

Thank you gentlemen for all the quility info! Especially Rimrock!
I spent the morning making finishing touchs with the guns... my main rifle will be a M700 Sendero in 300winnie and the back up is a M700 Classic in .35 Whelen... which may get switched to primary depeding on which area i go to on 'game day'

Your list's had me add a couple things to the list... made my think about throwing a pack of zyrtec in the med kit!



Now, Friday can't get here soon enough, i dont think i can express how excited i am for this hunt... i've been waitling 15 years for this!! 4 more days of work!

[Wild_Bill_Hiccup]

Good luck and have fun!

[rimrock]

in your day pack
make 100% sure your back-pack won,t squeak, groan or break when heavily loaded

small block & tackle & rope
compass
cell phone
large plastic tarp
gallon zip loc bags for meat
aspirin
percocete
skinning knife
water purification tablets, or filter/pump
bic lighters
fire starter tape or tube of thermite
poncho
down vest
licenses
gps
topo map
pack of wetnaps
toilet paper
emergency food
sharpener


on your belt
large knife or light tomahawk
canteen

anything that could get screwed up if you fall in a creek like medicine, licences, cell phones etc. gets double zip loc bagged

[GF.]

JMO....

You might well be able to drive around road-hunting and use that Sendero to tee off on a long shot, but you'd better get to be good friends with the Whelen if there is to be any walking involved. Have you checked the altitude where you're going? (And frankly, I'd take the Whelen over the .300 any day, just 'cuz.)



Are you going with some kind of outfitter? Private land? If so, you should be prepared for this to be more of a Shoot than any kind of Epic Hunt. And that's OK... I've had a tough year and wouldn't at all mind a chance to go out and shoot a cow or even a nice, fat doe at this point. This time of year, they should all be down nice & low, even if they aren't milling around next to the haystacks at noon. Chances are real good that you won't have to venture any too far from any roads on this hunt; late season cow-hunts don't generally involve much hard hunting unless you're restricted to public land.

Good news is that even on public land and in the earlier seaons, you don't have to go miles and miles back in to get an Elk, especially on a cow tag. But you do have to go back in farther than most are willing to go, which, according to the telemetry studies I read up on some many years back, was only about 1/4 mile from the nearest motorized access. Nowadays, I'd bet that their comfort distance is even shorter where there is cover, but quite a bit longer in the open. Sad truth is that a lot of people now seem to think that 1/4 mile is too far to hike in looking for an Elk, but not too far to shoot at one if you can see it. :mad:

But beyond that little rant ;)

The guys have given you some pretty exhaustive lists, so I'm not going to review their work. If you're really going to be going in after them, I try to think in terms of trip-killers and man-killers. There are things that won't do you any good if you have them in camp, but not on you, so that's where I'm focusing at the moment....

Man-killers are things like inadequate water, clothing, shelter and food, in about that order. Dehydration will get you if it's warm and hypothermia when it's cold. Fire is a great off-set to a shelter shortage, and both food and fire are important in terms of keeping your spirits and energy up should you get into a fix.

So do not head off without a hideously effective fire-starter somewhere in your kit, just so that you've got Da Bomb as a last resort. I usually pack a flint sparker, maybe a bic lighter, some matches, etc... Too much crap, though, really, so I'm looking to cut down to the flint to start a fire when I want one and a trioxane tablet or two in case I really NEED one. I carry a water filter and usually keep a full hydration bladder in my pack, because you get real dry, real fast at altitude, and twice as fast when it's cold out. Lots o' snacks, including dried fruits, nuts & jerky. Cheese sticks are good, too. If your clothes are good, you can get through an awfully cold night with a space blanket should the need arise, and carrying one of these will keep your pack down to a manageable weight. After all, if you're going to be stuck for the night, you should realize that long before it has happened, and you can always put together some kind of shelter on the trail.

Of course, the best way to end up on the trail for the night is to get lost, so I will reiterate the point about good maps. I don't have a GPS nor feel much need of one in the mountains, but I carry two compasses; one might break, and besides, I've got a horrible sense of direction. I am dumb enough to disagree with one compass, but not stubborn enough to argue with two.

From there, I'm pretty much onto trip killers. These are the things that may not kill you, but pretty well guarantee that you won't kill an Elk.

First is having your feet go bad. Elk hunting should probably be called Elk hiking, at least the way I've always gone about it... So first thing into the first aid kit is blister prevention and treatment; besides, a bad foot can go from trip-killer to man-killer pretty fast if you can't get back to camp. BTW, the best blister-proofing I know of is dry socks. Pack extras. Wool.

Band-aids are good, and I was really kicking myself last September when I sliced my left index finger with a broadhead and found that I didn't have any with me. But Super Glue is better for those cuts that just keep on bleeding. Throw in a little tube. Just make sure you've got a clean wound before you close it up and that your tetanus shot is up to date.

Pain meds are good to have along; not just the RX-only strong stuff, but plenty of Vitamin M, because while you need to be smart enough to not turn discomfort into a permanent injury, aching with every step usually results in fewer steps being taken, so that's a trip-killer. Also take some high-powered sun-block (for high altitude), chapstick (with sun-block), and some kind of good treatment for dry skin on your hands or face. Straight lanolin is good stuff, and you can get it in a tube at the drugstore; they sell it for nursing mothers (though a whole tube might be overkill)... All of that stuff fits in with a good, basic first-aid kit, though; not really anything unusual.

But don't forget any meds that are unique to your own health situation; not just the daily maintenance stuff, but for acute episodes of whatever ails you... Actually, depending on your health, these could go under man-killers. :eek:

So your survival kit can go pretty damn light, and that's important, because hauling too much crap is a trip-killer in its own right.

Clothing - as discussed, multiple layers, and as a rule, keep them as light in weight as possible. NO COTTON. Stick with wool (best) or high-performance poly. Scent-lock type garments are too stinking heavy to mess with IMO, especially on a rifle hunt. Just hang your stuff in the smoke from your campfire. I'm down to a packable rain jacket and an 800-fill-power down jacket for my 'heavy' layers on top, with a light wool base layer, wool shirt and fleece vest to layer underneath. Though this time of year, you'll want something really toasty, like the double mackinaw I just added to the collection. It won't be light, but I don't expect to use it much on backpacking type hunts.

On the bottom, I take a light pair of long johns, a midweight pair- which are actually cycling tights with gore-tex panels in front - and OK, I admit it, either BDUs or camo jeans for early season. If I were smarter, I'd have some good wool pants for active hunting on cold or snowy days, and I have some 300-weight fleece pants that I wear under insulated, Gore-Tex bibs for stand hunting. I also acquired this year a pair of gore-tex gaiters for walking through wet brush. Keeps the feet dry.

Don't forget lightweight gloves and some really warm ones, too. My biggest problem right now is finding a warm enough hat for the tree stand; a watch cap will do it, though, if you're active.

Once you have an Elk down, a small block & tackle is indeed your friend, as is a saw or an axe for splitting any heavy bones. If you can't drag the Elk out whole, a hauler frame is generally more useful (IMO) than an internal frame pack.

I don't worry much about stuff like surveyor's tape, because as with shelter, there are plenty of natural materials available. You can always stack up a little rock cairn to mark the way, or even just lay a stick across the trail to say "turn here". My brother still uses one that I put in place over a dozen years ago :D

And it's nice that you don't have to go back & clean up; also handy that you're not putting out a neon sign leading every other guy on the hill directly to your Elk.

[rimrock]

heres one tip I learned, never make coffee by flash light
picture this

its about 4am opening day of ELK season, 4 guys are trying to fix breakfast on the tailgate of a pickup truck, its 10 degrees and windy and we have two rather feeble flash lights,we slept in the truck sitting up and were all 90% asleep, I pour a cup of coffee and grab a couple packs of POP-TARTS throw those in my vest for breakfast as we walk into the hunt area in near total darkness and grab what I think is a packet of SWISS_MISS COCO and dump it into my Styrofoam coffee,cup, to make moca, I take a gulp and Im about 2/3rds into swallowing when my frozen brain starts screaming POISON, I START GAGGING and PUKE

when your minds thinking MOCA?,COCO,HOT CHOCOLATE/MIXED WITH COFFEE and you take a big gulp of hot coffee mixed with only partly dissolved raspberry, diet jello mix, your mind FREAKS OUT

its been 35 years since that morning and I still gag when I smell raspberry, and no one ever admitted throwing those packs in the food boxes, next to the coco packets

[GF.]

Diet jell-o?

Hell, man, I'm not sure I could choke that down if I were doing it on purpose!

Last time I got out and went hard after Elk, I dropped about 10 pounds in a week. So the thought of carrying diet anything up the hill sorta sets me to some head-scratchin'... :hmmmm:

That does point out a lesson, though... Make damn sure you never mix food and non-food items in such as way that you might eat or drink something not intended for consumption, because dog-tired people do make bone-haeded mistakes sometimes, and especially in the dark...

[rimrock]

heres another tip I learned early
anticipate the suns future location, in relation to where your going to shoot from when selecting a place, to set up, and watch an area.
picture this
youve found a extensive clear-cut area thats been logged several years ago and theres a stream running thru the area where the two slopes merge, at the bottom, you found a old log forming a great place to set up that covers the whole area , from the wooded location near the central stream, where you can see that the most likely point for game to appear from is wooded side draw , the problem you don,t anticipate is that its going to be exactly in line with where the sun seems to drop into the horizon at dusk, from your location and just at sunset the elk start to wander into the area , but while they are easy to see without the scope, looking thru the scope with the sun,directly behind the elk, makes taking a shot hopeless, and moving will alert the elk, you waste the evening hunt that day, but the next night you collect a nice legal 4x4 bull, when you applied what you learned and move to a different location about 150 yards higher up slope and several hundred yards further along the far edge of the clear-cut
your forced to take a 270 yard shot vs a 70 yard shot , but you can take your time and see clearly thru the scope, and you learn a 375H&H does a fine job even at almost 300 yards

[rimrock]

btw heres another excellent tip I learned the hard way.......
NEVER shoot a second ELK that happens, to be stupid enough to wander by the spot your, at, while your helping a buddy dress out his elk , especially when its more than a mile down slope from the closest location you can drive a truck too,leave that bone head move to the younger guys

[GF.]

Greed kills!

[Bushman]

My #1 elk hunting tip is to get to know someone with a pack horse. You will never appreciate one horsepower more than when you have something the size of an elk down back in the hills.

[dave-t.]

Well, my one full season of elk hunting experience taught me a lot, but the bottom line was that you have to be willing to go where the elk are, and where others won't go.

Sounds really easy in print.:tongue:

I made the mistake of putting off a hot bugling bull, because he was 3/4 mile away from where it took me 1/2 a day to get to, down a 50-60% grade the whole way, with deadfall and boulders added in for good measure. It was the second day of the season, and I thought, "Now I know where they go for sanctuary, but let's try to find an easier elk to get to."

3 days later, with a tag still in my pocket, I'm at the exact same location, with a bull bugling his head off down in that durn hole. Nothing was stopping me this time, and I was hell bent for leather to get down there. I get most of the way down the slope, and BOOM, a single rifle shot, no more bugling. I sat down right where I was and almost cried. I swore off elk hunting. Hell, I wanted to throw everything but my water down the hill and stomp off.

Less than an hour later I was back closing in on elk and loving every minute. Hunting elk is like nothing I've ever done before, and after one trip, I know I'd like to dedicate the next 10yrs to hunting them. Drawing tags, being out of state, etc. etc., I don't know when my next trip will be, but it'll happen.

Lastly, no matter how good of shape you are in at 900ft sea level doesn't mean squat at 10k+. But still, you have got to be in shape for any hope of working in that terrain and elevation.

[shortmag]

Biggest thing is to get in the best aerobic fitness possible.