Switching to Braid

[Altjaeger]

Yesterday I bit the bullet and bought enough braid line to spool two medium weight rods and two light rods. I have read a couple of recommendations to use flourocarbon leaders to prevent the line from wrapping around the treble hooks of lures and decrease visibility. Do those of you who use braid use leaders? If you do what length and weight of leader do you use? Is flourocarbon that much more advantageous that I should use it instead of the left over mono I have on large spools now.

The recommended use of the uni-knot to join the lines seems universal. Do you have any other recommendations and if so why?

[Bill Gunn]

On my 6'6" light rods that I use A LOT, I always put at least 5 foot of leader (so I can cut it back and retie as necessary), and I always use a Blood Knot to join the lines.

http://www.animatedknots.com/bloodknot/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

I use 6# Seaguar Fluorocarbon. Don't bother with the expensive "Leader" fluorocarbon, just use the regular. I tried both, and actually like the regular fluorocarbon better for a leader.

[swamp]

why use a mono leader just go braided without the leader.. lot less hassle.... i doubt you are fishing in crystal clear water anyways

[Altjaeger]

why use a mono leader just go braided without the leader.. lot less hassle.... i doubt you are fishing in crystal clear water anyways

I may try that first Swamp. I have been led to believe that braid has a tendency to wrap around the treble hooks on plugs rendering them inoperable during retrieves in addition to the visability issue. Some of these central Texas streams may surprise you in their clarity while others are perpetually muddy.

Bill, thanks for the response. One question I have is if the flourocarbon is so significantly better than mono that I should scrap the 6 lbs test mono I have on hand and buy flouro?

[swamp]

what brand of braided are you using? I doubt it will wrap around treble hooks anymore than other line hasnt happened to me at least.

[Altjaeger]

what brand of braided are you using? I doubt it will wrap around treble hooks anymore than other line hasnt happened to me at least.

I have Sufix Performance Braid for my light rods and Power Pro for my medium rods. Like I said I will likely try it both ways.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I use braided on my spinning reels but not on my bait casting. I don't use leaders, never found it necessary. I use the spinning reels for everything from crappie to redfish. It is especially good for Sheepshead with their teeth and in and around the rocks they live amongst.

I don't use it on bait casting because I've found that a a backlash is un-undoable.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

Thanks Alan. truth is I hardly ever use my one bait caster. My "using rods" are all spincast rated ultra light, light, medium, and medium heavy. Right now I am respooling the light and the mediums which get about 98% of all the use. I was hoping you would join in. Thats two for no leader. :smile:

[swamp]

Thanks Alan. truth is I hardly ever use my one bait caster. My "using rods" are all spincast rated ultra light, light, medium, and medium heavy. Right now I am respooling the light and the mediums which get about 98% of all the use. I was hoping you would join in. Thats two for no leader. :smile:

I want to get a bait casting reel... supposedly is almost back lash proof but it is rather exopensive... time will tell

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I'll be putting some of this to the acid test in the morning. We are going across Espiritu Santo Bay tomorrow. Going to try our luck for some trout and Redfish. US Army Corps of Engineers scooped out a big hole years ago to build the ferry landing on Matagorda Island. It's called (surprise, surprise) "The Army Hole" and when the weather gets cold the Trout, Redfish and Flounder all move into the warmer water in the bottom of the Hole. At least that's what we're hoping they did. Gotta go early before the wind picks up or it'll be a cold wet fishing trip. I can take getting wet on the way back but being wet all day is miserable in this weather. I guess this should really be in the "Salt Water" forum but maybe no one will mind!

Incidentally, I use 60# test braid on my spinning reels. The only thing I will say about braided line is that you should

NEVER, EVER, EVER

grab the line with your hand. When I get hung up I grab the spool but never the line.

Alan

[Sidekick]

I use Power Pro braided on all my reels, spinning and baitcaster. I don't use leaders and I haven't found the line and lure tangling issue to be any different than mono. As far as backlashes my experience has been that my worst braided backlash was nothing compared to a mono backlash. I think braided is easier to deal with. FWIW on my Canadian fishing trip I went on last summer there were eight of us that brought 4 plus rods apiece, baitcaster and spinning alike and only one guy had mono and that was on an ultralight. I made the switch 5 years ago and wouldn't go back. It may take a bit to get used to how it handles and how much more sensitive it is but once you get used to it I don't think you will want to go back to mono. And as previously stated, DON"T pull on the line with your hands, grab the spool.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

The three of us caught about 15 - 20 undersized reds but managed to boat two keeper black drum. Had them for supper tonight.

Sidekick, I think I will try some Power Pro on my bait caster this Spring. My only experience with braided on a bait caster was years ago with Spider Wire. It didn't last long. I have been very satisfied with PP on spinning reels though. I usually end up re-spooling at least once or twice with mono during the Spring and Summer anyway.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

Sounds like a good day. Looks like it will really be chilly next weekend. I take it the specks and the flounder had lockjaw or were AWOL.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I saw a couple of guys catching small specks. I haven't seen a flounder in a coon's age, I don't know what they bite on anymore. As of this morning I'm back t ohaving my life planned out or me and it's Basketball on Thursday night, Friday afternoon, Saturday (all day) and then again on Monday night. I keep volunteering to be the fishing coach. Nobody even laughs anymore. White bass should be running in a few weeks or a month. That's always fun!

Alan

[Sidekick]

I did the Spiderwire thing too some years ago. PowerPro is a lot better. The only real issue I've had with braided on a baitcaster is after you've landed a few fish or reeled in one that pulled pretty hard sometimes the line will get (not sure how to explain this) pulled too tight on the spool and doesn't always want to unwind off the spool as easily as it should. I just make another cast and then pull a couple yards out and rewind real quick. It might sound like a pain but it's really no big deal.

Bass fishing? You'll need to bring an axe if you try it around here today. It's currently -2 in my part of Missouri. But it's supposed to get up to 10 by noon so maybe I'll give it a try later. The forecast calls for temps between -5 and 14 all week. Might be a good time to call in a coyote.

[Altjaeger]

Back to lion taming here too!!! LOL

Yup frigid this coming weekend but give me a low in the 40s and I am likely off to overnight the river looking for whites.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

When I was kid in South Louisiana we had a hard freeze one night. My dad and I went fishing the next morning and there was about 2 feet of ice next to the banks of the canals we were fishing in. We found that if we cast our H&Hs up onto the ice and dragged them off real slow that the bass would take it as soon as it dropped off the ice. It was a great day of fishing and the only time I ever fished like that.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

I used 4 rods with braid this weekend and was very pleased. I can't remember such sensitivity!

I did not mess with a leader and had no problems. The casting was also easier in that memory had not set.

[Bill Gunn]

I used 4 rods with braid this weekend and was very pleased. I can't remember such sensitivity!.....

That's because like me...... Your gettin' old !!!!

[Altjaeger]

That's because like me...... Your gettin' old !!!!

Yea but...I try not to ever admit it!!!:biggrin:

[LeeInSC]

I sometimes use a mono leader around snags so I can break that off, whereas the braid will not yield.
I also use a mono of fluorocarbon leader for heavy fishing in salt water - better on the toothy fish.

Lastly, I use a 5-ft mono leader on 10 lb /4 lb diameter braid on a lightweight spinning rig, because the braid is very bright green.
I like it when I am using unweighted live bait or jigs, because I can see the line move as the fish takes the slack, but it spooked the fish. As soon as I tied on the leader the first day, the strikes increased about 4x, so I leave it on.

[GF.]

So it sounds like you guys really like the power pro....

How often do you replace the braid? I don't replace the mono as often as I should, I'm sure.... Sounds like I might want to stay away from braid for a while yet, though, if for no other reason that it sounds like it could be a poor choice for fishing with small boys. Nobody has said what happens when you grab the line, but it sounds ominous.... I have visions of blood, sweat and tears - cut fingers dripping blood; me sweating it out on the oars; and tears all the way home....

Thanks, but no, thanks!

[Sidekick]

I replace it every year. I might cut off 20 feet or so every once in a while to start with a fresh end. Sometimes I pull all the line off and reverse the ends so that the frayed end is now the first layer on the spool. One reason you shouldn't pull on braided line is that it doesn't stretch and it's somewhat abrasive. Wrap it around your hand and pull and it's possible to cut yourself. I wouldn't want to have my hands tangled up in the stuff with a sizable fish on the other end no matter what kind of line it was. You really shouldn't grab the line anyway.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

It will cut, and it will cut you very bad. Mono will cut your hand, 60# PP will cut your hand off. I haven't done this but I feel reasonably sure it would. Small children should not use it. I have never replaced it on a reel and one or two of them have had it on them for 4 or 5 years. Periodically if you spool it out and tie off to something and give it a good stretch it sorta rejuvenates it.

Alan

[GF.]

I had heard about the re-spooling in reverse trick, but not the stretching... Yeah, I just don't need to go there with my little guys.

So, OK, good. I just saved myself a small bundle.... ;)

[Altjaeger]

Many on the kayak fishing forum I participate report line 4-5 years old that shows no deteriotration of function. The one thing they note is an increase in the white powder that rubs off.

[Sidekick]

I've never left it on that long. I use my rods on a weekly basis and the first short end always gets a little fuzzy and frayed looking after a while. It sure can't hurt to cut a little off and start with a new end. I've never gotten worse than a paper cut from it. Same as mono. I've never really considered it to be overly dangerous.

[Bushman]

I suppose that every line has it's pros and cons, but not to spool up some braid for you jig fisherman because it is a cutting hazard is doing yourself a big disservice. Early on we jumped on the Spiderwire bandwagon and we couldn't tie a knot in the stuff that wouldn't slip, or they recommended gluing the knots and who had time for that? Mono saved the day up in Canada. Then we found Berkley Fireline and our opinion of braid completely changed. Knots hold in it just fine, it is so thin compared to mono, the increased sensitivity has to be felt to believed, hook sets are much better because there is no stretch, it doesn't kink like mono, sun rot is nonexistent, it lasts for years and does not seem to degrade, twists don't weaken it... What's not to like?

We take special precautions if we snag up to wear a heavy glove to break the line and we don't keep pulling on a snag because you can break a rod that way. We use the black Fireline and after a while it does lose some of the dye so the line gets lighter in color, but the fish don't seem to care one way or another. Cosmetically we just cut off that section and keep fishing. The greatest vertical jigging line that I have ever used. There might be newer braids on the market now, but since I found this stuff, I've quit looking for anything else.

[Sidekick]

I tried the Spiderwire too and didn't really care for it. Fireline is pretty good. I used some on one reel in Canada with good results but I'm pretty well sold on Power Pro. I put on a new spool before I went up north just because a trip of a lifetime is worth ten bucks of fishing line. And it held up just fine against those toothy northern fish. With a short leader of course. I never broke my line but I did tear up a few leaders.

[Bushman]

Critique Power Pro against Fireline if you would. I've never tried Power Pro. Is it dark colored? We fish stained water and I've seen the best bite with a darker colored line.

[Sidekick]

PP is a dark green color. Not as dark as Fireline. I think it's a little tougher and seems to knot a little better but I don't really have that much experience with it so take it for what it's worth. I fish mostly murky water. Lakes and ponds where visibility is probably 3-4 feet at the most. On a good day. You might not like the color but the physical properties are great.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I tie an improved clinch knot with 6 - 9 loops. It works great.

Alan

[Bushman]

Alan, I tied an Improved Clench knot for a lot of years myself, maybe not with that many wraps, but the same principle. My fishing partner using the same Fireline braid always tied the Palomar knot so one night with nothing much better to do, we had knot wars and his Palomar knot beat my Improved Clench knot. The Improved Clench knot cuts off the lure cleaner, but it is not as strong in a straight line pull as the Palomar in the Fireline.

[dave-t.]

For the best of both worlds on my jigging rods, I run 10lb Fireline in high vis. neon green and tie off to a hook eye, and cut off the hook, then use the eye to tie on a mono leader. You get all of the sensitivity of the braid, and the mono leader for low visibility, and for a clean break if you snag. I really like the system, the sensitivity is great, the high vis. line is easy to see, the hook eye weighs close to nothing, and you can vary the leader length or strength as needed.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Bushman, I know you are right but I'm not into learning new tricks right now. I can retie without looking (almost) and don't want to pend the time and effort to learn a new knot. I use fewer wraps with mono (5 for lighter lines and 3 for 30 and up). With the PP I use 7, 8, or 9 (whenever the line starts to tangle). I like the heavy weight PP because it's not that much bigger than the light stuff and on most snags I can grab the spool and the hook will bend free. They haven't invented a line that will take on oyster shells though. There's some places we fish that if you get a fish on you have to keep the line (and the fish) high if you want him. That's tough with 25 inch redfish in 1.5 feet of water.

Alan

[Sidekick]

I use a Palomar knot on everything.

[Bushman]

Good idea on the hook eye as an attachment to a leader from the braid. I'm thinking about fluorocarbon as a leader material if it would help eliminate the bite offs that we get with northern pike. Those things will snip Fireline quicker than a new pair of Fiskars. Monofilament line does not do much better.

Alan, if anything a Palomar knot is easier to tie than an improved clench knot is. It certainly has a lot smaller profile on the lure than a clench knot with a lot of wraps.

[GF.]

I've gotten real fond of the Surflon knottable steel leader material, myself, but little bro swears by Mason mono for pike. Perfection loop (basically a bowline) seems to work real well with both, though in the steel, I've gotten used to throwing a figure-8 on a bight, aka surgeon's knot/loop... You can tie an improved clinch in it as well, but have to go a little lighter on the wraps...

[Bushman]

We use the camo 10 pound test Surfstrand stainless steel leader wire when we get serious about catching a northern when we are jigging for walleyes. What I haven't liked about trying to tie a knot in wire leaders is that it gets kinky when you draw the knot up. My fishing buddy went to a fishing seminar once where the guy said the best way to "tie" a wire leader is to wrap it, not tie it. What we do is take a small hemostat and clamp it on the short end of the wire after it is through the lure eye. Swing it back and forth a few times to get the weight of the hemostat swinging, then give it a good swing and wrap the short end over the leader a bunch of times tight up near the lure. It holds really well surprisingly. The wire will fatigue at the lure after a while though, so re-wrap it every so often.

[GF.]

I haven't been able to get the surflon to take a haywire twist that way, myself, but that does work real well with other types of wire that I've used, especially single-strand.... And there are a few types out there that are plastic-coated so you can weld your twist in place with a match.... Those are a pretty good solution, too....

[Bushman]

I just put my micrometer on the 10 pound 1x7 stainless Surfstrand (made by American Fishing Wire) and it is .007 in diameter so it near disappears on a jig. The Nylon coated 15 pound Tyger tie-able wire that I used for a time is .016 in diameter. Northerns don't care one way or another, but walleyes bite something connected to the thinner stuff much better. I did try fusing that Nylon leader together with a lighter and that works too, but now instead of .016 you have .032 and that looks like a rope compared to that Surfstrand.

[Bushman]

Speaking of braid, having nothing better to do over the weekend I compared the poundage needed to cut 10# Fireline verses 10# XL and 10# Seaguar fluorocarbon with my sharpened fillet knife. It always seemed to me that the northerns bite off Fireline faster than they do monofilament. I tied my digital scale to a chair and the lines to the scale. 1.1# of pressure to cut the Fireline, 1.5# to cut the XL and 1.7# to cut the fluorocarbon line. That isn't as much protection as what a wire leader would give me, but we don't look for the northerns, but always manage to find a few anyway. That is just about the opposite kind of cut result that you will get with a scissors, but I think that a knife blade is a closer simulation of what a northern does to a line than a scissors.

[Bushman]

Well, I messed up using 10# XL for my stinger connection. Even the little walleyes were giving a few shakes once I got them in the boat and either my single clench knot to the #8 red treble pulled through or the line to the stinger broke. Two days into the fishing trip I re-tied all my stingers with 10# Fireline, Bill's slip knot to the hook and a double (twice through the eye) clench knot to the hook and it solved all further problems with broken lines or pulled through knots. I lost the largest walleye that I've had on in 20 years up there because I did not have that stinger tied on correctly. I panicked because it would not come off the bottom and just did that big walleye slow head shake. I fish a medium heavy G Loomis ETR 81-3 MHS-15 rod and it was bent over like I've never seen on a walleye and we catch a lot of 28-31" fish up there. That was the kind of fish that brings us back every year. As it was we still caught 14 walleyes 24-29.5" for five days and the 25 guys or so in camp boated 58 24-30" that same week plus all the under 18" slot size eating fish that anyone would want.



I used the Seaguar fluorocarbon 10# leader all week too and I liked that in combination with the Fireline. It was not impervious to the northern bite offs, but it did not come untied or break as often as my buddy's 10# wire leader and I still managed to get in our largest northern at 35". Kudos to Dave for suggesting that instead of a swivel for joining the line to the leader that I use the eye of a fish hook and then cut the shank and hook portion off for just a strong, yet small line attachment. Worked great Dave, thanks.

[dave-t.]

Glad it worked for you. I use that set up with 10lb neon fireline and 4lb mono leader for long poling ****pie. Great sensitivity and very easy to see, while still being all but impossible for the fish to detect.

Has anyone tried the red Cajun line or the neon fireline for their stinger hooks? I've thought about trying it with a very heavy line (20-50lb) just to add a bit more color to the live bait rigs that I use. We miss a few ****pie when using 1/16 oz. jig hook/minnow, just because the hook is relatively small compared to a more typical aberdene style hook.

[Altjaeger]

I have been using braid several months now and will say I love it. Never would I have suspected I could feel the lures action as I do. Just now I ordered 600 yards more to complete changing my other reels.

[Sidekick]

Great stuff isn't it. I made the switch some years ago and haven't found a reason to go back to mono. The sensitivity and the solid hooksets alone make it worthwhile. I find that when I do backlash with a baitcaster it's a heck of a lot easier to straighten out than mono ever was.

[Bill Gunn]

Has anyone tried the red Cajun line or the neon fireline for their stinger hooks?

I used some Cajun Red to make up some trolling leaders, and on some stinger hooks for walleye.
Haven't noticed any difference, good or bad.
I picked up a spool of 30, 40, and 50 pound Cajun to make up some worm harnesses. I normally use 7 strand coated steel in 30# test.

For perch I use 4# smoke fireline, and about a 5 to 8' long 6# Seaguar Florocarbon leader. Works SUPER.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I used some Red Cajun line once to make a huge ball of Red Cajun line on a couple of reels. Never used it since. I've still got one reel with some on it. I use it for catfishing directly under the boat.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

Red Cajun line came on the reel of a medium heavy Ugly Stick spinning rod combo. As soon as it arrives 250 yards of #40 Power Pro braid will be replacing it. When that happens the only mono will be banished from the house.:smile:

[Altjaeger]

Great stuff isn't it. I made the switch some years ago and haven't found a reason to go back to mono. The sensitivity and the solid hooksets alone make it worthwhile. I find that when I do backlash with a baitcaster it's a heck of a lot easier to straighten out than mono ever was.

I have not really used a baitcaster in over 40 years. I did have a Shimano speed master I ought 20 years ago, got frustrated with it with mono and used it strictly for trolling.

Tonight I respooled it with #50 Power Pro braid and tied on a 1/4 ounce practice plug. Taking it outside I practiced with it for about 30 minutes. At the end I was making 25-30 yard overhead casts and 30-35 yard side arm casts. Most casts had loose line on the spool but I never had a knot simply pulling line off until I was down to tight line again before reeling the line up. I think I will learn to enjoy baitcasters again.:biggrin:

I have a round Abu Garcia coming in this week that will be spooled with about 250 yards of #40 braid for mounting on an old 7' MH IM6 Bass Pro rod I have on hand.

[Sidekick]

I have a Pflueger President on a 7 ft. Ugly Stik spooled with 18 lb. Power Pro braid and I love it. I used it in Canada last summer and I could take anything those big northerns could dish out. If I trust my thumb I can get 50 yds out of it. You might try a new baitcasting reel. They've come a long ways in twenty years and you just might be surprised at how good of a reel you can get for less than a hundred bucks. I wouldn't have anything to do with one for years and then one day I went into Bass Pro after I had sold a LOT of hay and had a big wad of cash in my pocket and left with that combo. I wouldn't use anything else for casting now. They get easier to use all the time.

[Altjaeger]

I have a Abu Garcia C4 arriving from Bass Pro later this week. I will mount it on the 7' medium heavy graphite rod from Bass Pro described earlier. I picked up a 6 1/2' medium rod by American Rodsmith today that I mounted the the old Shimano Speed master. I look forward to trying the new reel next.

[Altjaeger]

Sadly the Abu Garcia arrived non-operative. I sent it back and bought a left hand Abu Garcia C3 that is on the 7' medium heavy rod. Practicing about 30 minutes a night and about $25 worth of braid later my skills are picking up. Hopefully soon I will be ready to trust it on a trip soon. Our next river trip is two weeks away.

[kjjm4]

I have 4 Abu Garcia C3s. They're the only baitcasting reels I use. I spool the ones I use for bass with 12 lb mono. The one on my muskie rod is spooled with 50 lb test braid.