Like I don't have enough to do!

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I have always wanted to get a flintlock muzzle loader. I ain't getting any younger. I have been looking in al the usual places (gun shops have very few, and Cabelas are apparently made out of some type of precious metal and wood) and have decided to pick the gun smoke clouded brains of the assembled denizens of the HA Traditional ML forum for their suggestions. At the present time I am wanting something that shoots RB with some degree of accuracy and will be used for mostly fun shooting and some hunting (deer). In regards to caliber I'm leaning toward .45. I have a mold so ammo is cheap. Will flintlocks use Pyrodex or does it have to be BP proper. I want to be able to go as completely traditional as possible and I really do like the idea of a weapon that the only component I have to buy is the propellent. I am a passable amateur flint knapper and I believe that knocking out a useable flint would not be beyond the range of my ability.

So to cut to the chase let me open up the floor for your suggestions. Oh, I'm a tightwad.

Alan

[Just a Hunter]

if you dont mind a 54 cal this is a good deal ($289)
Shooting a roundball will help with recoil and a mold to make roundballs is not very costly
http://www.impactguns.com/store/011516621306.html

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

JaH, I was thinking that I would like a smaller caliber and perhaps a rifle with a little more "sleek" look to it, like a Kentucky Rifle or similar. Bear in mind, that I have yet to actually hold a flintlock rifle in my hands (except once many moons ago when I was about 14 - 15). I am very, very new to this game. Thanks for the response though.

Alan

[Bill Gunn]

This may still be avalable...

http://www.armslist.com/posts/17454/harrisburg-pennsylvania-muzzle-loaders-for-sale-thompson-50-cal-pennsylvania-hunter-flintlock-muzzleloader

I have used a T/C Hawkins for way over 20 years... very accurate....

look on gunsamerica or other sites like that.
I think they can be mailed direct from seller to buyer.

Bill

[TinStar]

Alan,

How much are you looking to spend? That has alot to do with it. I am looking at getting a "parts" kit from Tip Curtis that will run around $800 but has all top of the line parts. meaning better brass fixtures and a much higher grade of wood. Also these parts kits are not ready to assemble. You still have lots and lots of work to do. The nice thing is is that you can get a rifle more to your liking rather than just choosing s lower quality factory gun. I am thinking of a Lehigh style Penn. longrifle in flintlock and Tip had just the stock style I was looking for.
To answer your other question; Pyrodex will not totally work in a flintlock. By that I mean it will not ignite in the pan very well or at all. It may work in the chamber if there is a small charge of real black powder first. So it's not worth the hassle. Real black powder is available online; shipped to your home. For more info from some real experts visit the Muzzleloading Forum, or American Longrifles forum for additional help and TONS of info.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[TinStar]

Here is alink.
http://www.americanlongrifles.org/forum/

[TinStar]

The other one is the Muzzleloading Forum. I couldn't get the link to paste, but if you do a google you will get it. Join both and spend time asking qustions. These guys are great, willing to help anyone, and full of knowledge. It can be addicting.
I'm looking at the parts kit also because I like doing things with my hands and it will give me something to do to pass the time. If you want a really sleek rifle; then that's the way to go.
Take a look at the online catalogs of Track of the Wolf and Pecatonica River to get an idea. Tip Curtiss does not have a website but can answer any questions you may have. If you want his number, give me a PM.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[Just a Hunter]

Lyman Rifles http://www.impactguns.com/store/lyman_rifles.html

T/C http://www.impactguns.com/store/tca_muzzleloaders.html

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Man, I knew all I had to do was ask and I'd get a full time research job from you guys! Thanks for the replies, I've got some work to do.

Alan

[ncboman]

I'm sure interested in seeing what you come up with.

... and a pretty good reason to shoot just about anything that comes along. :>)

[GF.]

One of the more nearly 'period correct' rifles has long been the Lyman GPR:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/lyman_gprifle.jpg

They won't break the bank, and you can go either .50 or .54 with those. I think Doug S. has dialed in the lock on his, so could probably be a good resource if you have any issues. Both .50 and .54 are the same across the flats, so the .50 actually weighs more. Good for target shooting, but more to carry. And if you want a project, you can get these in kit form; just don't think that you're going to save very much on the bargain, and if you aren't interested in doing the build for the sake of doing the build, then I wouldn't recommend it. BTDT - the rifle shoots well and looks OK from 10 feet or so, but it's an ugly sum-B if you have any idea what you're looking at...

Recoil with roundballs is negligible - or certainly can be, if you load down to 40 grains or so in the .54. But since the ball is nearly 30% heavier than a .50 (230 vs. 180 gr.), the cost of lead is not altogether to be ignored, I suppose ;)

Most important thing in a roundball shooter (IMO) is the proper rate of twist. And if you want to go 'as trad as possible', there is no benefit to a 1:48 'compromise' rate of twist such as you'll find in a T/C and so many others. I've heard from guys who swear that their 1:48 will shoot out the lights with a full-sized hunting charge and I've heard from guys who can't get the things to shoot for crap unless they load down to plinker levels, but I have never heard of a 1:60 barrel that wouldn't shoot about as as well "loaded fer b'ar" as it did with anything else.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

That's some good info. I would be most interested in shooting roundball and would have thought that 1:60 would be barely spinning at all compared to other rifles. I guess too much spin would have the same affect as a curve ball. Thanks for the information.

Alan

[TinStar]

I have one of those "freak" TC Renegade Hunters that shoots good with a round ball in the fast(1:48) barrels. Don't even worry about recoil as it is so much less with a round ball. I shoot 90 gr. and it's a piece of cake. Same with the 295 br. Powerbelt. But if I stuff it with a Maxi and especially a big Buffalo bullet type; I am in for a real jarring. Similar to a 12 ga. magnum slug.
Don't forget to check out those other sites I told you about and those forums. There is tons to be learned. Keep in touch.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[GF.]

I'm surprised you can prevent those heavy conicals from keyholing on you at 1:48, but maybe you just got real lucky!

Seems like a roundball needs just enough spin to keep it from turning into a knuckleball; the bigger calibers like a slower rate of twist, so you needn't be too fixated on 1:60, for instance, if you were to go down to a .45. Frankly, I don't think I've ever seen a .45 at anything slower than 1:48, but the hard-core trad boards are a great resource, as TinStar said... Ignore anything mass-produced in the 20th century and see what the 'correct' rates of twist look like. You might well hit on a range, rather than a single number, but back in the day, they didn't turn out rifles that wouldn't shoot (except for the smoothbores they traded to the Injuns, but the excuse was that those doubled as scatterguns).

It's always really interesting to me to think through what went into making a rifle back then. Start with iron ore, dug out of the ground by hand, then heat it over a fire stoked with coal that had been mined by hand, then form it into rods and then into tubes by hand, straighten them by hand, cut each groove in the rifling by hand... I read somewhere that a good rifle used to cost a man a year's wages. At those prices, nobody would tolerate any junk, nor could anyone afford to scrap an imperfect barrel half-way through...

Anyway, my theory is that the effort involved in cutting the rifling must have gone up with the rate of twist. Maybe that suggests that they used the slowest rates possible and faster is OK, or maybe they only took the trouble to build a jig for the slower rates of twist when it became apparent that whatever they were using for the lighter bores was just too much of a good thing?

[Sabre]

My T/C Hawken will put round balls into cloverleaf groups at 65 yards all day long with either 75 grains of Goex fffg or 85 grains of ffg. If I go heavier on the powder charges groups start to open. The 1 in 48" twist is actually more "period correct" for a "Hawken type" rifle than the 1 in 60" as original Hawkens were rifled 1-48'. The Lyman GPR is more true to the styling of the originals than the T/C's but after examining several examples of both it is clearly evedent the T/C's are of considerably better quality.

[GF.]

I'll have to take your word on that, seeing as I finished my own, and nobody has exactly offered to pay me to do theirs for them :D

Though one guy did ask - sounding a bit awed, if I do say so - "Wow, how old is that thing???" So maybe I should call mine 'antiqued', rather than just homely.... Our friend Mr. Hawksford, on the other hand.... :adore:

Trouble with the T/Cs is that the finish is so hugely out of touch with 'correct', and frankly, I have to wonder if your idea of 'better quality' depends on what you expect a modern rifle to look like. Blued barrels? Shiny, varnished stocks? No wonder the old-timers took one look at 'em and...

:puke:

I've often heard that the Hawkens were mostly 1:48, but that just raises a couple of questions in my mind...

Like, just for starters, where exactly- outside of Jeremiah Johnson - is it written that Hawkens were the finest examples of their breed???

And did they use 1:48 for every caliber they made because it was 'best' for everything, or because they had a jig that cut at a rate of 1:48 and it would have cost a lot of money to come up with a jig that cut a slower rate, and people were perfectly happy to buy them at whatever rate they had on hand...? There was a bit of a rush on at the time, so maybe they were the 'mass market' rifle of their day. And what does that tell you?

I mean, you wouldn't tell me that a Remington out-o-the-box rifle is a better specimen of a rifle than a Dakota, would you? Budweiser is the best-selling beer in the world, but nobody who works in the brewing industry would tell you for an instant that it's the 'best' beer.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[GF.]

Found this, too.... http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_53/ai_n20512668/

And one more plus for the GPR if your eyes are headed that way....

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(etl45dil3cuc2c45jkfvxs55))/imgPart/rs-57-gpr_1.jpg

[Sabre]

Trouble with the T/Cs is that the finish is so hugely out of touch with 'correct', and frankly, I have to wonder if your idea of 'better quality' depends on what you expect a modern rifle to look like. Blued barrels? Shiny, varnished stocks? No wonder the old-timers took one look at 'em and... The T/C doesn't have a shiny, varnished stock. It has a satin finish that is likely some type of UV curable sythetic. My gauge of quality is based in years of doing business as a gunsmith and craftsman building custom rifles, handguns and knives . Such things as reasonably even sanding of the stock with straight lines where straight lines should be with absence of obvious dishing and sanding marks, close tolerances of wood to metal fit at the buttplate, nose cap and lockplate, properly straight edges and flats maintained on the octagon barrels, proper fitting to allow a well centered strike of the hammer on the nipple etc. etc....Having built high dollar custom rifles for discriminating customers back in the 80's and 90's, I figure I'm probably a better judge of the quality of such things than your average Joe.

[GF.]

Sounds like it to me! :D

[Dwayne]

At the present time I am wanting something that shoots RB with some degree of accuracy and will be used for mostly fun shooting and some hunting (deer). In regards to caliber I'm leaning toward .45. I have a mold so ammo is cheap. Will flintlocks use Pyrodex or does it have to be BP proper. I want to be able to go as completely traditional as possible and I really do like the idea of a weapon that the only component I have to buy is the propellent. I am a passable amateur flint knapper and I believe that knocking out a useable flint would not be beyond the range of my ability.

So to cut to the chase let me open up the floor for your suggestions. Oh, I'm a tightwad.

Anything that is 44twist or higher will work fine with RB. 66 is better, but if you want to shoot conicals too. . .stick with a 44 or so.

About the caliber. . .I would definitely go with the 50 cal. If you want to shoot 45's then shoot a Sabot in your 50 cal. It will knock it down to a very accurate 45 cal, and it will be legal to hunt in *all* states that I know of. 45 Cal is not legal in all states.

GP is illegal. That is why they have Pydrodex and BP substitutes. I guess you can make your own GP <smile>.

About your priming pan. . .use 4f powder from Goex. That is the fastest powder available. If you use that for your pan, it will ignite every time, and be just as fast or faster than a cap ML.

Knapping your flint? Don't worry. . .Just clean the edge with a piece of cloth, adjust the flint for a follow throu, and you may never have to knap a flint again.

You can use Pyrodex 3f for pan powder, but you will probably have miss-fires every once in a while. 3f would be great for the range. 4f is good for the hunting.

Dwayne

[TinStar]

Don't even think of priming with a BP substitute. It just doesn't work. Not based on my experience; but on the personal knowledge of many folks at traditional forums. Also according to most there you don't have to prime with 4F. If you go with a .50,54, or the .45 you can load and prime with 3F. The difference in speed between 3 and 4f is miliseconds and a human can't percieve the difference. BAck in the day most of the folks out hunting carried one powder horn and took what they could get. And it wasn't as good as todays black powder. I intend to get the real stuff as I have read about corrosion issues with some of the subs.
Like I said before; go on the traditional forums and you will learn a ton and a lot of myths are debunked also.

My TC Renegade Hunter had that "store-bought" look to it so I stipped the stock and stained it dark and did an oil finish. Then I took the barrel and removed the sights, then put the screws back in the screw holes and filed them flat. Nest, I cut dovetails into the barrel for primitive iron sights. I then deblued the barrel and browned it, along with the other furniture. Lastly I redid the ramrod by striping it over a candle and refinishing. Now it looks like an old gun.

If anyone would like to see just how many of the old time smiths made a rifle get a copy of Foxfire; I believe #5 and see how Herschel House does it at Colonial Williamsburg.


TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[captchee]

MMMM some interesting posts

Yes you can prime with 3 F and even 2 F . miss fires or not , well that depends on the quality of lock
. Myself I like 4F but yes 2 and 3 f works just as well for many .
Synthetics don’t work well in the pan of a flintlock

But for a few harder years in the service , I been making misleaders since I was 10
So that ???? Well , a long time

Yes the fox fire book is fox fire 5
But its basically as interview of Hershel in his younger years .

You however will not find one of his rifles for anywhere near the cost of GPR or any TC .
I own one and have for near 20 years .
One with an actual forged barrel NO one of his later barrels which he purchased from Getz , Rice and a couple other companies . Hershel did not make all his guns by scratch using hand tools . In fact most were not . He uses routers and power tools to do a lot of his work .

don’t get me wrong , Hershel is an outstanding gunsmith but this last piece that he built with the help of his brothers is one of only a handful .

Both TC and Lyman IMO have very good fit and finish for production guns .
Are they high grade benelli’s ? nope but your not paying for that eather

Custom wise ,,, the cost of either of those two companies will not even cover the cost of parts on a semi custom rifle

Right now im building a Emil rifle . Just basic . Parts was over 600.00 and that’s not including my work to finish . Which will bump the rifle to over 1200.00 when finished

You want a period rifle , document able, hand forged barrel, or barrel made from 150 year old stub blanks
hand made lock . , Personably cast sand or forged hardware .Stock from a blank finished in hand rubbed oils , scraped not sanded .
that’s going to cost you . There are many of us smiths that can do it .
But sadly most cant afford it


Right now I have a set of barrels in my damp box that cost more then the cost of 7 GPR .
that’s barrels alone .
yep i said 7
For the cost of the 18Ct gold bands you could have bought a GPR

Lets see , how about a Hudson Valley fowler im waiting for parts on . 500.00 for 2 parts lock "castings " and stock "Blank "
thtas not including the barrel , butplate , sideplate or thimbles . all that i will be casting or forging myself .
The 60 inch barrel cost what a GPR costs .

So it all boils down to what your price range is , what your willing to pay and what you want .

For under 500.00 well your looking at the TC or GPR

[captchee]

Re read the thread again this morning and came up with some other things
well other then my spelling in the last post LOL


Trouble with the T/Cs is that the finish is so hugely out of touch with 'correct', and frankly, I have to wonder if your idea of 'better quality' depends on what you expect a modern rifle to look like. Blued barrels? Shiny, varnished stocks? No wonder the old-timers took one look at 'em and...



Oils were not the only thing used for finishing . There were waxs which were common among cabinet makers . You have the different oils some with Driers , some without . Then you have Lacquers an d later even Verathan ,.
Added to that , you have different finishing techniques. Like open pour European finishes and filled pour American finishes which became very popular to do by the end of the 19th century and carries on today .
TC uses a Poly type of finish sometimes with fillers


As to barrel colors . Well bluing and bright work considerably pre date browning . Browning and rust black start to grab hold about ¾ of the way through the 18th century . . Bluing again starts to come back again about 1820-1830 . Though it never really died out completely
That bluing and black though , has little resemblance to modern bluing as its more translucent as a fire blue and more flat as with the Rust black .



Anyway, my theory is that the effort involved in cutting the rifling must have gone up with the rate of twist. Maybe that suggests that they used the slowest rates possible and faster is OK, or maybe they only took the trouble to build a jig for the slower rates of twist when it became apparent that whatever they were using for the lighter bores was just too much of a good thing?


It taks no more effort to draw a fast twist then it does a slow twist .
What it does take is a different jig for the rifling bench .
Prior to the Hawkens brothers moving their shot out of ST Lewis they also were capable of doing slow twist barrels . But for what ever reason , purposely or by accident , when the moved their shop they only seem to have had a 1 in 48 jig for the rifling bench . Apparently they never found a need for another .

But we also have to understand that the Hawkens Bros were not just a gun shop but primarily a blacksmith shop . Relatively and in comparison to other gunsmiths , they produced few rifles . By their own writings not over 300 rifles during peak production . While at the same time makers like derringers , hennery and Leaman were producing thousands a year .


The Lyman GPR is more true to the styling of the originals than the T/C's


That depends on what your comparing .
Today when people see a ½ stock rifle , its called a Hawkens rifle .
Hawkens was actually a very long line of gunsmiths who produced even long rifles .
And the hawkens wasn’t the only half stock rifle out there . In fact they were just one of many
by no means is this anywhere near the amount of rifles that many today would proclaim to be hawkens but understand that J&S produce relitivly small numbers of rifles per year when compared to many of the other makers

common J&S hawken rifle

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/JSHawken.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/JSHawkens2.jpg

J&S hawkens St Lewis

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/hawkensstlewissqurrel.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/hawkensstlewissqurrelj2pg.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/hawkensstlewis.jpg

AW. Spies

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/AWSpies.jpg

Gustuvus Erichson

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/GustavusErichsonflinlock1838.jpg

Gustavus Erichson was a gun maker, gunsmith, and gun dealer in Houston from 1838 until 1872. Two of his sons, Otto and Alexander, continued the business until the 1890s.
An amazing rifle has just been discovered hidden away in the vault at the Sam Houston Memorial Museum in Huntsville, Texas. An original flintlock rifle that appears to have been stocked in Houston as early as 1840 and stamped G. ERICHSON HOUSTON. TEXAS. on the lock and the barrel. Mounted in iron with a pewter nosecap, stocked in walnut. This large rifle measures 61 inches overall and has a 43 5/8", .51 caliber, swamped barrel. The rifle is in fine shape and, at this time, is the only known Texas marked flintlock sporting rifle.


Hummel

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/Hummelrifle1.jpg

Jacob Linn

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/JacobLinnRiflebw.jpg

Krauskopf

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/KrauskopfRifle1.jpg

Biddle

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/RWCBIDDLE.jpg

Dimick - Horiz

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/a_dimick-horiz-web.jpg





Like, just for starters, where exactly- outside of Jeremiah Johnson - is it written that Hawkens were the finest examples of their breed???

that’s actualy kind of funny that you bring that up . Because the true Johnson used many guns to include Winchester repeaters . From what I have read of him , he had no real preference for a maker . Why he may or may not have been as much a pilgrim to the mountains as the movie wants us to believe. He defiantly was no stranger to guns
However there are a number of famous people who did carry Hawkens rifles to include Henry , Bridger , Medina just to name a few
Henrys rifle was actually a slow twist and in 60 cal if I recall my readings correctly .



Anything that is 44twist or higher will work fine with RB. 66 is better, but if you want to shoot conicals too. . .stick with a 44 or so.

About the caliber. . .I would definitely go with the 50 cal. If you want to shoot 45's then shoot a Sabot in your 50 cal. It will knock it down to a very accurate 45 cal, and it will be legal to hunt in *all* states that I know of. 45 Cal is not legal in all states.

GP is illegal. That is why they have Pydrodex and BP substitutes. I guess you can make your own GP <smile>.

About your priming pan. . .use 4f powder from Goex. That is the fastest powder available. If you use that for your pan, it will ignite every time, and be just as fast or faster than a cap ML.

Knapping your flint? Don't worry. . .Just clean the edge with a piece of cloth, adjust the flint for a follow throu, and you may never have to knap a flint again.

You can use Pyrodex 3f for pan powder, but you will probably have miss-fires every once in a while. 3f would be great for the range. 4f is good for the hunting.


Not sure what to make of this post .
But sabots are not legal in every state .
BP is not illegal. Black powder is classified as and explosive while the synthetics are classified as propellants . Frankly it’s a pretty dumb classification discrepancy when you get right down to it .

As to flints . If you want to keep the best efficiency in a flintlock , a person will learn to keep their flints sharp . Be that by Knapping or by using files to keep the edge touched up
A good flint , in a properly tuned lock should however yeail you with easly 60-100 shots .
I have has some in my Hershel rifle that I got around 125 shots before they were to small to any longer be moved forwards

[GF.]

About the caliber. . .I would definitely go with the 50 cal. If you want to shoot 45's then shoot a Sabot in your 50 cal. It will knock it down to a very accurate 45 cal, and it will be legal to hunt in *all* states that I know of. 45 Cal is not legal in all states.



#1 - sabots are illegal in CO and - I'd wager - in Idyho, at least for some of their ML tags....

#2 - I would be surprised to learn that a minimum caliber requirement refers to bore diameter and not the bullet itself.

[Sabre]

The Lyman GPR is more true to the styling of the originals than the T/C's

Captchee, What I meant by that statement is that the GPR is closer in appearance to a standard, original half stock Hawken plains rifle than is the T/C, though I've seen pictures that show considerable variation in styling did exist among the originals, including examples with pistol grip stocks and checkering. I have seen pictures of half stock rifles by other makers that are closer in appearance to the T/C.

[Dwayne]

#1 - sabots are illegal in CO and - I'd wager - in Idyho, at least for some of their ML tags....

#2 - I would be surprised to learn that a minimum caliber requirement refers to bore diameter and not the bullet itself.

Like I said before. . .a 50 cal is legal in all states that I know of. . . a 45 cal is NOT legal in all states that I know of.

What this means is this. . .If your state says 50 cal MINIMUM for ML, then USE a conical. If your state says 45 Min, then you have a choice of a sabot OR a Conical. . .either way you are legal.

With a 50 cal, you can be legal one way or another. . .with a 45 Cal, you cannot be legal in some states.

My post stands as correct.

Dwayne

[Rattus58]

In Hawaii, caliber refers to the bore diameter by virtue of omission and has been an argument of mine to allow 40 caliber for hunting.

Aloha.. :cool:

[Bill Gunn]

The NYS law specifically states... Muzzle loading Firearm is a firearm loaded through the muzzle, shooting a single projectile and having a minimum bore of .44 inch.

[captchee]

sabots are aloud here in idaho just not in the muzzle loading hunts

you can also use projectiles smaller then 45 . just not in the muzzle loading hunts

you can also use a 45 cal in a 50 cal . but again NOT in the muzzle loading hunts . The projectile cannot be more the .010 under bore
even though 45 cal is legal for deer but not for elk which is a minimum 50 cal
Not a 50 call rifle firing a 40 or 45 cal projectile .

Same with deer . While the 45 is legal , its not legal fired from a 50 cal rifle .

Now I would have to look and see but at one time the laws specifically stated NO SABOTS.
But again , I would have to look and see


#2 - I would be surprised to learn that a minimum caliber requirement refers to bore diameter and not the bullet itself.

well that was the original intent . but it left a loop hole .
and thus the commission here made a clerification . no less the .010 under bore

ohhh i also went and checked
yep NOOOO sabots



Muzzleloader Caliber Requirements
In any hunt, including general any-weapon seasons and shortrange
hunts, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game animals:
• With any muzzleloading rifle or musket that is less than
.45 caliber for deer, pronghorn, or mountain lion; or
is less than .50 caliber for elk, moose, bighorn sheep,
mountain goat or black bear.
Muzzleloader-Only Season
Any person hunting in a muzzleloader-only season, including
controlled hunts, must have in their possession a license with
a muzzleloader permit validation. During a muzzleloaderonly
season, it is illegal to pursue or kill a big game animal
with any firearm, muzzleloading pistol, or weapon other
than a muzzleloading rifle or musket. In addition, the
muzzleloading rifle or musket must be:
• Capable of being loaded only from the muzzle.
• Equipped with only open or peep sights. Scopes and any
electronics are prohibited. Except hunters with a visual
disability may apply for a permit to use nonmagnifying
scopes. (Applications are available at Fish and Game
offices).
• Loaded only with loose black powder, loose Pyrodex, or
other loose synthetic black powder. Pelletized powders
are prohibited.
• Equipped with a single or double-barrel.
• Loaded with a projectile that is within .010 inch of the
bore diameter. Sabots are prohibited.
• Loaded with a patched round ball or conical non-jacketed
projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy.
• Equipped only with a flint, percussion cap or musket cap.
209 primers are prohibited.
• Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion
of the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is
cocked and ready to fire.