Llamas and goats

[Rock Chuck]

I started a new thread to avoid hijacking the thread on Svea stoves.

The question was how much a llama can carry.

A big gelding can handle about 80 lb on long trips. A female, maybe 60. On shorter trips, say a couple miles in for packing meat, you could probably add 20 lb to the loads.

Something else to seriously consider is pack goats. They're cheaper, easier to haul, and a big one can carry nearly as much as a llama. Purebred Boer wethers can hit close to 300 lb and carry 60 to 80 lb. However, Boers have short legs and aren't real agile. A Boer X Alpine or Nubian can top 180 to 200 lb and carry 50 to 60 lb. I have 2 young Boer crosses that will be seeing some action while my llamas get some age and size to them. I haven't had packs on them yet but will make a couple this spring. These things are STRONG. We picked them up for weed eaters after we got the llamas and I can see they have some advantages. One of them was bottle fed and will follow us anywhere. He won't need a lead in the woods. Once they're imprinted, they'll just follow you. The other one might need a lead but we'll find out later. They can't take the cold like llamas, but unless you're needing animals for late season hunting, that shouldn't be a problem.

http://http://huntamerica.com/forum/album.php?albumid=7&attachmentid=415

http://http://huntamerica.com/forum/album.php?albumid=7&attachmentid=366

[Altjaeger]

That leads me to the next question. How is the training coming?

[Bushman]

What kind of a trailer do you need to get them where you want to go? A horse trailer seems like an overkill. I'll bet that they are sure footed little critters. We had some sections out in CO. that we walked up and down that were too rough for the horses, but a goat could have done it.

[Rock Chuck]

I've found that both llamas and goats can go places where a horse can't possibly go. Both are incredibly sure footed. In training hikes, the llamas will calmly walk up and down hills where I'm scrambling on all fours. You need good breast and britching straps on the saddles because they'll come down head 1st. You don't want the load over their heads.
The goats will just pick their way up and down.

If you have a stock rack, you can put 2 or maybe 3 llamas in a pickup. If they're trained, you can even load a llama in a van. They'll just lie down and stay put for hours at a time. Llamas will always pee or crap in the same place so they won't mess up the truck. Goats will just jump in about anything. However, their 'hygiene' isn't quite what you'll find in a llama. You really don't want goats in your van. If you have a top on a stock rack, you can just turn llamas loose in it. If it's open, you need to tie them. They normally won't jump, but it doesn't pay to be wrong. Goats are climbers. You need a rack they can't get through or at least 5' high.

[DancesWithKnives]

Very interesting. I read about a goat packing business on another forum. I think they would be a good value for walking animals.

I've rented pack burros many times and they will go a few places where horses hesitate. They are also a lot better at living off the land. They carry about 80-100 lbs---more for shorter hauls. Burros are a bit slower to lead on foot than a mule but as I get older and slower, that shouldn't be as much of a problem as when I was 25 and faster. I've also had burros run off a black bear with authority so they may have an advantage over goats/llamas in that area.

Thanks!

DWK

[Rock Chuck]

Having both, I think the llamas are better for class and aesthetics, but I think the goats are more practical for hunting. You don't need to carry feed for them because they'll eat darn near anything along the way. You do have to tie them while in camp, though, unless you want them 'helping' with the cooking and taking over your tent. In that, they're like dogs, but a whole lot stronger.

[stinky]

I have goats, but I've yet to get close to 50# on them...The packs are small and if you go to high on them they rock, siode to side, too much. That said, the only problem that I have w/them is the first 1/2 mile or so on the trail. They have a pecking-order and they are always trying to break out of it, jumping around and passing each other. When they pass you on the trail and hit you w/the pack it is a pain...when they do that I am glad that they are not horses. I pack about 20# of grain for them, in used bread bags...in about the size of a softball. When it is saddle time, coming off and going on, I break open a bag.

I do not use a lead on them. When I stop to glass, they just lay down and chew their cud. I do tie them every night. In elk season, I had 4 of em w/me. When we go on short hikes, I never carry water, snacks or anything, the goats carry it all. No matter where you are at, you do not have to carry food or water...they have a conserve water mode, that they use in the desert.

I put them in a 6x8 trailer, w/2' sides on it. I tie them in, and they lay down. That said, I've put them in a van. They are supposed to be smarter than dogs (not that I believe it). Once they've been hauled a few times, they know the drill and get right in...especially if you feed them.

The only bad thing...they do not like water crossings and I often have to coax one accros at a time.

I prefer dairy goats, which are more wirery. They are not like a horse, which you may be able to get all of your gear on, you'll always need atleast two of em (to keep them out of trouble) and even when I go by myself, I take atleast 3. Weight is not an issue as the goats just carry it all.

Now, if you shoot something, it will always have to be boned out.

Now, all of that said....just rent something. I have 17 of the beasties (about 5-6 for packing) and trust me, it is way cheaper to rent. I buy about 400 bales a year (the best that I can buy it at is $4 a bale). But, we don't drink the white processed liquid that they sell in a grocery store that you do, and I have one organic beast that is scheduled, in the near future, to become food....so there are some other benefeits that I have

[Rock Chuck]

Thanks for the info. While I have a lot of experience with livestock, I'm pretty green with goats. I have a couple boer x dairy breed wethers (1 x nubian & 1 x alpine). I got them mainly for weed eaters but plan on them carrying some weight until my llamas get some age on them. They both have very large, deep bodies but have the long legs of the dairy breeds. They're very agile & can jump. I think they'll both be close to 200 when they're mature.

How does goat meat compare to lamb (my favorite)? I plan on getting a couple young ones this spring to kill this fall. If we like the meat, I'll get a couple breeders to raise a few for the freezer. I won't milk them, though. I've milked cows and I won't be tied down to daily milking again. It's too hard to get away to do anything that way. Besides, there's just my wife and I so we don't use much milk any more.

a face anyone can love........

[stinky]

I can't really say what goat tastes like as it is always cooked like a burrito mix at our house. But, at the Christmas party, som folks thought that it was chicken ;)