Cleaning BP question

[tjhuels]

I've been shooting black powder now for about seven years, with a Cabelas' Hawken .54 flinter. Usually load a patched ball with moose milk lube. But for Minnesota cold I lube the patch with mink oil for sighting in and hunting.

I clean the barrel with hot soapy water and rinse with very hot water. When I run a dry patch down the bore it comes out brown and greasy (from the mink oil, I presume.) Takes several patches of Hoppes' #9 to get the bore clean.

I was under the impression that soapy water was all one needed to clean after shooting black powder.

So, what's up with the brown residue? Is it like the "seasoning" that you're supposed to get with Bore Butter?

Thanks.

TH

[Dwayne]

That brown residue could be rust and/or corrosion. . .

Dwayne

[captchee]

yep . it could be rust . after ckleaning with water , run a dry patch . then run a oiled patch so as to oil the bore up good

[Gil Martin]

I agree with captchee. Hot soapy water, hot water, dry patches and oil patches are the way to go to properly clean a muzzleloader. All the best...
Gil

[tjhuels]

Nope, it isn't rust. Know rust when I see it. This is brown goo.

TH

[Badger]

tjhuels,

Do you get the brown goo BEFORE you run an oil patch at the end of your cleaning session? If so, it seems you are just finishing the cleaning chore before you oil the bore. Run several dry patches to remove the goo released from the pores of the metal by the hot soapy water. You do not need Hoppes #9 unless you like the aroma.

Badger

[captchee]

Not necessarily badger there are many types or rusts /iron oxides .
It can be also many different colors not just brown .
Most folks know the rust the see outside on metals that are left to weather .
The rust one gets in the bore of a rifle however is not that type . it’s a flash rust . Its very fine . Eventually if left to set , the fine rust will grow a heavy rust and then begin to pit

Flash rust is so fine that even a bore light , many times will not show it .
Some times even on the outside of a barrel , you cant really see it until your eye starts to pick up a color change

Again my bet is that if your not oiling the barrel , the brown your pulling out is rust . The only exception is if your using something like bore butter or wonder lube , to lube the bore. That gunk dries brown as it ages and thus comes out looking like rust

[Badger]

captchee,

Not necessarily! RUST DOES NOT happen at the end of the CLEANING process. Any "Goo" on the last patch is merely stuff brought out by the hot soapy water bath. RUST may occur next day if the bath was deficient. If it occurs, do the "Bath" again, dry the bore and oil. Nuff said.

Badger

[TinStar]

Captchee is spot on. There is such a thing as FLASH RUST. It occurs right after the hot water rinse evaporates or begins to. Try a couple of patches with alcohol to help clean out the "goo". If needed, clean again, then alcohol, and then dry patches followed by a good gun oil like Rem Oil etc.
Captchee is the kind of devout traditionalist like others I have read on traditional forums and knows his stuff.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[Bill Gunn]

tjhuels,
You do not need Hoppes #9 unless you like the aroma.
Badger

If your gonna use Hoppe's #9 for rust prevention, you might as well pack them in salt too.

Check out this test that was done at Brownells...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10700/guntechdetail/Gun_Cleaning_Clinic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Pr eventatives


I always spray them real good inside, and outside with WD-40 (the "WD" stands for water displacement) after drying, but while the barrel is still hot, and run a few patches in them, soaked with WD-40.

I've had them sit for YEARS with not the slightest bit of rust forming.

The WD-40 dries up and leaves a protective film inside and outside the barrel. Just keep the WD-40 off the trigger and the frizzen (on flinters), and you won't have any problems. I have gotten some on the frizzen, and they still fire, I just don't recommend it.

[captchee]

ahh ya it does and can . . when i refinish a barrel , i literaly, depending on humitiy and iron content , watch the barrel flash rust right in front of me . in just minutes .
i can and do complete rust a barrel in about 45 minutes . that a completely oiled , de grease barrel placed in a cabnet with 85% relitive humidity .
if you live in the south and leave you barrel un oiled in 90% humitiy . it would be no diffrent
there are only 2 things that will stop it
1) soda wash
2) oil
3) very high polish ; which only slows down its ability to be perminate .

if you are pulling brown from the barrel when you oil , the oil is pulling more rust from minusual pits that your not getting clean . if the bore was truly clean , that would not happen

todays WD is also not yesterdays DW . the formula isnt the same . it doesnt contain the amounts of fish oil that it used to

[tjhuels]

I'm getting what Badger said - brown goo after the soapy water wash and hot water rinse. After I get the goo out I always oil the bore. Mamaflinter on her site recommends using Marvel Mystery Oil for the bore. I've used that most often, also at times have used RemOil mixed with WD-40. I use Hoppe's for cleaning only, not as a rust preventative.

Don't get the brown goo when I have only used moose milk on the patches; only when using the mink oil.

Others have recommended checking the bore again after a day or so, and I do that and re-oil also.

I think it was Don Wald on the old forum who said flash rust forms quickly if you use water that is too hot for the final rinse, so I've avoided that.

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.

TH

[Doug S]

Try giving it a wipe with carb cleaner on a patch after you dry it. The brown is most likely your patch/bullet lube and the cleaner will get it out. Soap and water will cut the BP fouling real well but depending on what kind of soap you are using, lubes can be a different story. Another good product to try is GoJo hand cleaner, without the pumis(grit). Not only does it do a fine job at cleaning the bore, it makes a great patch lube.

Doug

[Dwayne]

Hello Doug,

Don't you have rust problems, or cleaning problems with GoJo? I have never tried it, but I would think that the water based product would leave a film on the barrel, with a water based product, and possibly be rust progressive. Then I would think trying to clean the barrel may be a little difficult to do because of the film. Just asking. . .

Dwayne

[Indy300]

I found another use for a cleaner that really is it's name. The only place I have seen it is in our local Dollar Tree store. It's named Awesome. It cleans about anything I have hit with it, but what caused me to try it in the rifle this year was last years spring cleaning. My woodburner over the winter leaves creasote (sp) on the white aluminum soffet of my house, getting it white again has never been fully successful and alot of work. This stuff when sprayed on, just melted it right off almost immediately, and did not hurt the aluminum. When using it in my rifle this year, it must have gotten into the micro pores discussed above, because I got absolutly no brown residue on my patch when oiling the bore, which has happend many a time when I thought I had it fully cleaned. At a dollar a quart bottle, it puts anything else I have used over the last 40 years to shame..No, I do not sell this stuff....

[Dwayne]

Hello Indy300,

That awesome. . . do you use the Window cleaner or the multipurpose?

[Indy300]

Dwayne, the multipurpose is what I used. Based on results using it on other things, takes mildew of of boat seats, and spider poop off of siding, I never saw any negative effects, but I did rinse the bore thoughly after using it on the rifle just to be on the safe side. I hope it works well for you if you decide to try it..

[Dwayne]

Hello Indy,

Thanks. . .

One thing that I have noticed throughout my years, is that natural citric acid does many wonders.

It can't hurt to try this stuff, it may be much better than man-made. Backing it up with some good oil could do the trick!

Dwayne

[Indy300]

Good luck, happy shooting....