300 Savage best elk round

[Indy300]

I will be hunting in Co next fall and plan to use a Model 99 Savage. I know this rifle is considered lower power by todays standards, but I do manage yardage well, and can place a shot pretty well. I have found somewhat conflicting info on 150gr vs 180gr, so would like some opinion on that. Also, on the brands, Federal, Winchester and Remington, who are all I know that make the 300 Savage ammo. I probably can not afford custom ammo, I will be practicing a fair amount.

[Just a Hunter]

This is a fairly easy question to answer simply because there are so few factory cartridges offered these days for the 300savage.

I would buy a box of Federal 180gr Hi-Shoks and a Box of Rem 180gr CorLoks and use whichever shoot the best in your rifle.

The only other choices I am aware of are 150gr soft point bullets which I would expect are best used on deer sized game.

[Altjaeger]

x2

[stinky]

x3

[Indy300]

Thank you all for the response. This rifle was my fathers, it means alot to carry it on this elk hunt. It is scoped with a Redfield 4x German Post (flat top) and crosshair. I have taken it out in cold weather to test if it fogs, and it does not. My plan is to sight it in at 200yrds, which according to the charts would put it 1.5in high at 100yrds. Also, I plan to put the target at the top of the post, rather than at the cross hair line. Thoughts?

[Bill Gunn]

First...... Welcome to H/A !!

Sounds like you got a plan there, I'd like to drop an elk with mine....
I have a 99EG in .308 that I've dropped a couple deer with,
You gotta love those '99's !!

[Bushman]

Indy300, first off welcome to HA. Being a M99 .300 Savage owner myself, I can understand your attachment to the rifle, particularly if it has that sentimental value. Thinking back over my CO. elk hunts there aren't any that I got with my 7mm RM that I think that I couldn't have gotten with my .300 Savage either. In your case I wouldn't be looking to do long range shooting, but inside 200 yards with a broadside shot, a .300 Savage should work ok. I'm sure that you know that there would be better choices, but that isn't what you asked, so we won't go there.

I might be part of the conflicting information with the penetration information of the Core-Lokt 150 going farther than the 180 round nose did in the 50 yards phone book shoot. The commercial cartridge companies have decided that the .300 Savage is pretty much a deer cartridge and the bullets offered pretty much reflect that. They don't load the Partitions, TSX's, Interbonds or A-Frames because a .300 Savage just does not move them fast enough to get much benefit over what you can get with just a standard vanilla cup and core bullet. That plus the fact that most guys don't hunt the bigger animals with that cartridge to begin with so it would be a losing proposition for them. I know that you wrote that you don't want to buy custom ammunition, but ammo is pretty cheap verses the cost of a western hunting trip. Elk can take a licking and keep on ticking like no deer that you ever shot so you might think about practicing with the standard stuff and shooting a premium bullet for the actual hunt. Conley Precision Cartridge will load you anything that you want for a .300 Savage. www.cpcartridge.com

Elk need to get their heart or their lungs punched, both of them, and an exit wound for you to gather them up in a reasonable amount of time. That means penetration. Given that your impact velocity will be down in the 2000-2200 fps range, here is how the 180 grain round nose Remington Core-Lokt and the 180 grain Winchester Power-Point stack up at 2100 fps. or about what a 180 would hit with at 100 yards:

Core-Lokt 15.2" of penetration with 153 grains of retained weight.
Power-Point 16.7" of penetration with 156 grains of retained weight.

This was from the Handloader Magazine article by Gary Sciuchetti a few years back.

A 180 grain bullet is really going to tax a .300 Savage at longer range because it isn't starting it out much over 2400 fps to begin with. I guess if it were me doing it, I'd order a 165 grain Nosler Partition bullet from Conley Cartridge. That bullet is soft in the front end, but it should give you an exit as well, albeit a smaller one from my experience with it in a number of other cartridges.

[Indy300]

Your point is well taken about the cost of custom ammo vs the full cost, pratice cheap, hunt with the best. I had tried to find 165 grain commercial load but did not find it, so this will be a solid alternative. I have primarily hunted whitetail with a muzzle loader al my life, and put together an inline for NM elk. I have taken two, but at short range, 20yrds and 60 yrds, I like to let them get as close as reasonable, probably a throw back to my round ball .45 cal days. The ballistics on my inline and the 300 Savage are similar at 100yrds, but the mz bullet is 300grs. Just for clarification, were you recommending a 150gr over the 180 in factory loads? I am glad you mentioned the two hundred yards or under, I had pretty much set that as my max, but was trying to figure out if it would cover 250. Your 200 yard info has helped me on that. I have always been particular on shot placement, if I do not have tone, (to many action movies), the triger does not get pulled, period. Thanks again for your help.

[Bushman]

Indy300, I do like pointed bullets out west because they will have a higher ballistic coefficient than a round nose will. The 180 grain bullets loaded commercially for the .300 Savage are all round nose bullets that I have seen. That fact alone is going to limit your range somewhat with a .300 Savage. The 180 grain round nose Power-Point looks ever so slightly stronger constructed than the 180 round nose Core-Lokt from what I see from Gary's chart, but both have a lot of lead exposed at the tip and they open fast.

From my .300 Savage the 150 grain Core-Lokt penetrating farther than the 180 grain Core-Lokt in dry phone books was a total surprise to me. I keep them down my basement for future reference and I just measured them for you.

150 pointed Core-Lokt: 8.75" of penetration then ripped paper.
180 round nose Core-Lokt: 7.75" of penetration then ripped paper.

A few weeks back one of the guys wrote that he got end to end penetration on a deer with a 150 grain Core-Lokt from a .30-06 so it must work pretty well. On the surface I wouldn't recommend a 30 caliber 150 grain bullet over a 180 grain bullet for elk hunting, but it did penetrate according to my tests. I'll sure defer to the guys who have used it on game to jump in here.

There are no commercially loaded 165 grain bullets for the .300 Savage. It is loaded for my .308 though which isn't that far off from a .300 Savage. It is my favorite for deer hunting. In contrast I looked at the phone books that I shot with my .308 with my favorite 165 grain Hornady BTSP InterLock and it went through and tore 9.25" of phone books. That was virtually identical to a 165 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw which was another surprise. That Hornady bullet out of your .300 Savage would be another great bullet. I know that it sure works on deer.

If I were you out in CO. I would stay pretty close to the wooded sections where the range would be shorter. I didn't start seeing elk out there until I left the horse in camp and went spooking around in the woods like I was deer hunting back home.

[Indy300]

Again, thank you for the info, this is getting to be alot of fun, and am learning things that I just never had a reason to persue. In Indiana you have a choice of shotgun, or muzzleloader for deer, though now pistols are legal, and some have set up with some pretty major rifle ammo. Certain pistol rounds like the 44mag are also legal in a rifle. But as I mentioned, I go with an inline that was set up for elk, on a whitetail, well it does a real number on them. I am more familiar with mass over speed. My guess is that in the really fast rifles you might have to watch out for to much penetration, and not enough shock transmital. With the 300 that seems reversed somewhat. You need the shock, but need to max penetration...so it is kind of a balance, plus keep the shot short as possible...thanks again

[Bushman]

Indy, strange as it seems, the faster a given hunting bullet is going the LESS it penetrates. Take Gary's chart again where he shot three of each 180 grain hunting bullet (38 of them) and shot each of them into his control medium from 3100 fps down to 1400 fps, (or when ever the bullet quit showing any expansion) measured penetration and photographed the three bullets together. To do the math that is: 38x3x18 velocity changes=2052 bullets tested. I wrote to Gary to order his chart and told him that it was a shame that all that work went into just a magazine article. Handloader Magazine #193.

Take for instance my favorite deer hunting bullet for my .300 Savage the 180 grain Remington round nose Core-Lokt. Starting at 3100 fps presumably out of a .300 Weatherby or Winchester Magnum:
3100: 12" 123 grains retained weight ave.
3000: 12.3" 129
2900: 14.5" 136
2800: 14.3" 135
2700: 14.3" 113
2600: 13.3" 113
2500: 13.2" 143
2400: 12.3" 144
2300: 12.7" 147
2200: 14.8" 151
2100: 15.2" 153
2000: 15.8" 155
1900: 17.3" 160
1800: 18.8" 161
1700: 20" 168
1600: 20.3" 170
1500: 21.3" 173
1400: 15.3" 171

It is not a perfect curve but you can certainly see the trend. It is a testament to that bullet that it works at 3100 fps and all the way down to 1400 fps. Not a lot of them on the page that worked that well over such a wide velocity range. Gary used wet saturated phone books for his testing medium. I really like what that bullet does in the 2500-2000 fps operating range which is exactly where my .300 Savage puts it for my close in deer hunting.

[Indy300]

Bushman, now that is alot of testing. It looks as though, I have a solid foundation to work with thanks to your information. And maybe a trip to the library might improve my technical understanding. I know when reading Bugle I always enjoy Wayne Van Zwoll's articles. I think I have a busy season ahead of me, between shooting, and getting in as much shape as I can get for a flat lander, hey but that's what the anticipation is all about. Now to find the best way to stay warm around Craig in Octber....Thanks for all your help..

[ColoYooper]

Looking at that velocity/penetration data, I would be better off just throwing a bullet at the elk.
But I think I'll stick with my 30-06 and it's minimal penetration.

[Chuck S]

Here's a bit of history from Wayne Van Zwoll: "In a 1939 survey of 2,300 Washington State elk hunters the .30-06 stood tallest among the six most popular cartridges. The others: .30-40 Krag, .300 Savage, .30 and .35 Remington, and .30-30 Winchester. " So no problem as you're right there in thte middle of great Elk rifles as well as having some great info on penetration and the part momentum and lack of bullet deformation plays!!! Way to go! I'm currenty witout a 300 Savage but it's temporary for sure.

[Bushman]

The best thing that a Savage M99 has going for it is that it is one of the most comfortable one handed carry rifles ever invented. Would I rather have a my M99F .300 Savage three ridges back where the elk are instead of a 10 pound .300 Win. Mag that is a chore to pack up and down a 10,000 foot mountain? Yes I would.

[LColo]

Hey Indy, I know I’m very late for this posting..just hoping you’ll check back before you come up to Colorado..For some reason some hunters who come to Colorado are under the belief that our Elk and Mule Deer are bullet proof or have started growing armor over the past 60 or 70 years. As a Colorado native I have hunted Sheep, Elk, Bear, Mule Deer etc.. Your .300 Savage will be fine just on Elk. Keep your shots under 225 yards or so and use 180 gr. My M99 is sighted in at 200 yards.

I use 180 gr. Remington’s $15 at Wallmart, switching to Federals I don’t believe Remington still offers a 180 gr. My son wanted to use my 99 this year so I will be using his 7x57 Mauser with 173 gr. S&B ammo. My Father will use is Model 54 Winchester 270 with 150 gr. Winchester Super X ammo and my brothers will use their old 30-06’s and we will all come home with something, just like most other years.

So while I’m not a ballistic expert..I do know what has filed my freezer and put a few mounts on my wall these past few years and I’m not willing to trade off my 300 Savage as of yet.

So go ahead and bring your 99…oh by the way, we ran into a young lady from California who was standing over her first Cow Elk here in Meeker, Co. She was excited as all get out..her first Elk. 150 yards..one shot with a 6x55 mm swiss Mauser.

[Mod 12]

Good reading, guys.

Is there an after action report?

[Hi Ball]

I would have to say that Bushman has summed things up nicely! The .300 Savage is and always was a heck of a hunting caliber and the model 99 has proven it's self over the many decades. It is a worthy tool in the dark timber or if you should catch one of those big bulls feeding some 200 yards out into the open area. It's only downfall if there is really such an item, is that it was not suited for those 350 yard and beyond shots, so many elk hunters seem to take nowdays on those big Wapiti of the mountains. I would stay with a 180 grain bullet tlhough!

[AK-49]

if you are likely to be shooting at 300 yds and beyond then you would probably be better off with a good sub MOA bolt action rifle chambered in 7MM Rem Mag or 7MM WSM and topped with a Leupold VX-3 3.5/10x40 or better scope.

Good article here: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek064.html

[Bushman]

You can shoot a close elk with a gun that shoots far, but you can't shoot a far elk with a gun that shoots close. I ever felt the least bit apologetic for shooting two elk at under a hundred yards in the black timber with a 7mm RM.

[AK-49]

i doubt if the game warden would accept such as an excuse for taking two elk.

Elk are often shot a rather long range. If I was planning an elk hunt then a bolt action in 7mm WSM would be my choice

[Poor Man]

Remmington cor-locks have been around for years at a reasonable price. They are extramly accurate and penitrate without comming apart. In a round for elk you want penitration! I prefer a heavy bullet over lighter. Yes lighter bullets travel faster but not necisaraly further with acuracy. My Browning a-bolt will group at 2" off a tripod rest at 100 yards with a 180 grain Remington cor-lock. Most of your shots in the timber of the Rockys will be 100 yards or less. www.publiclandfothepoorman.com

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I wonder if Indy ever got that old elk? I imagine that a 150 grain CL or a Sierra would kill an elk if you shot it out of a 30-06, a 30-30 or even a 300 Savage. Never having shot an elk myself I can only imagine.

Alan