Coyotes in Detroit

[Waidmann]

Since there are a couple threads here regarding coyotes, I thought I'd post a link to an article I read this morning in the Detroit Free Press. The article is here (http://www.freep.com/article/20100223/NEWS02/2230308/1320/Coyote-snared-but-others-still-roam-Pointes).

The last couple paragraphs floored me for a minute. Then I realized that the Free Press is, after all, a rather liberal newspaper.


"Coyotes roam throughout metro Detroit.They are more visible now because it is their breeding season, Sutherland and state officials said.

"Catching a female helps the numbers," he said. "We don't want to wipe out the species. We want to keep the numbers in check."

What the heck? We don't want to wipe coyotes out of our parks in metro Detroit? I had a buddy who was walking his dog in one of the local parks a couple winters ago, and they were attacked by three coyotes. They managed to fight the 'yotes off, but they both got chewed up pretty bad (especially the dog who was the main target).

Waidmann

[GF.]

I'm sure that's just the public servants doing their best to sound accommodating towards the wildlife. If they want rid of them bad enough to shoot them, they're not messing around, IMO - otherwise why take the 'risk' (perceived or otherwise) with ricochets, etc.

With that woman being mauled to death in a park in Canada, predatory attacks on children in a bunch o' states, and coyotes being willing to attack dogs while there are humans in attendance - we actually had a report of some coyotes in town that were apparently trying to launch an attack on one or more small dogs as they were being walked on leashes, and they didn't break off even when the owners picked the dogs up and tried to carry them to safety.... Well, anyway, thats a lot of data demonstrating that coyotes are a real threat to humans. Makes those compact .327 mag revolvers and the .380s look better and better all the time, IMO...

But what do you guys think - is the average 'poodle shooter' compact pistol up to the task, or do you not send a poodle shooter to do a coyote killer's job?

[Waidmann]

GF,

That story is exactly what happened to my buddy. When the coyotes appeared, he put the dog on the leash, figuring that if they fought together they had a better chance of surviving. Well, the snow was deep, and he couldn't kick, so he kept punching the coyotes. That's the major damage he sustained. Every time he punched one, it grabbed his hand/wrist in his teeth and bit it. Even through gloves and a coat, she got his hands and lower arms chewed up. His dog was almost killed. He swore that was the last time he would go in the metro parks without his carry gun.

If I was walking in the same park, I would definately carry. My preferred carry-gun is a .45 APC, so I wouldn't worry that it isn't enough cartridge to stop a coyote. If I could hit it, I think one shot would put it out of the fight. Not sure I'd be comfortable with anything smaller than a 9mm if I thought there was a reasonable chance hungry coyotes were going to be the target of the day.

Waidmann

[GF.]

Something respectable, for sure... Big difference between a round that would do for targets of opportunity vs. something which has expressed an interest in sinking its teeth into you. Nothing that starts with a 2, for damn sure.

478

I hope your buddy got himself a series of rabies shots.... That sort of behavior is so far out of line for 'normal' coyote behavior that something must have been very badly out of whack there. Lots of deep snow, she might have been just desperately hungry, but taking on a grown man.... :hmmmm:

I did notice that you said 'she', though, so maybe it ended badly for the coyote.

[dave-t.]

At stomping range, a .22 would be all you would need, imo.

Predators are definitly moving into the urban setting. On the way in to work today I saw road kill coyote and a bobcat a lot further into city limits than most would suspect. Even 6-7yrs ago I was seeing bobcats and 'yotes in my suburban backyard.

After a few generations of operating inside human territory, they learn that there is nothing to fear from humans. Nothing to fear from a human, when they see and hunt around them everyday, whether the people see them or not. I truly think it is a case where they are evolving in behavior, and nothing has given them a reason to avoid people, so being smart predators, they take advantage any time they can.

[Waidmann]

GF - I doubt he got the rabies shots. Never mentioned it, at any rate, and I would think that if he had, he would have said something about it.

He identified the coyotes as a "big alpha female" and two obviously smaller ones--perhaps her offspring? Do young coyotes stick with their mothers for a year or so? At any rate, all three of ran off, so it didn't end badly for her that day. Although she ran off with no food, so it didn't end that well for her either.

Dave-t - I think you've put your finger on it. They haven't quite identified adult humans as food yet, but they seem to have identified them as not much of a threat, either. To them, a dog on a leash is an easy meal. Expecially one of the fashionably little dogs. I wonder what finally brought them to the attention of the Police in Grosse Pointes?

Waidmann

[GF.]

I wouldn't say 'evolving', Dave, but they sure as hell are adapting nicely....

Pack formation appears to be driven by the forage base; where there are large, easily defended food sources such as deer carcasses, they'll operate as a pack because they do better defending a road-kill as a team than foraging for voles as individuals. And defending a carcas is something that they will do - even, perhaps against a black bear, so how stupid would they have to be to not figure out that an unarmed human is a hell of a lot less of a threat. What have we got? No teeth to speak of; no claws at all; weak as fawns, by and large...

So now that you mention it, the attack on your friend is outside the range of 'normal' behaviors towards humans, but nothing that they're not already programmed to do vis-a-vis other predators; the only difference being that 'normal' coyotes have a healthy fear of humans ad this new generation of urban and suburban yodelers has been taught from an early age that we're nothing to worry about.

Which kinda worries me, honestly. Get down to it and there are only two kinds of critters: threats...... and food.

[pepaw]

Here is a story from Houston, Texas that was surprising. West University and Bellaire are near the 610 loop in Houston:

Coyotes And Bobcats Invade Area Yuppie Enclaves
By John Nova Lomax in EnvironmentMon., Jan. 18 2010 @ 2:11PM
​Back in 2004, we covered the battle of man vs. coyote in League City. Now it appears the wily canines have moved the battlefront closer to town.

WestUInstantNews picks up the, um, tail:


Coyotes and bobcats have recently been spotted prowling the border of Bellaire and West University Place, prompting a police warning: Keep a close eye on family pets, and never leave food outside.

Over the past few weeks, a Bellaire resident lost four pet deer to coyote and bobcat attacks. The woman used a motion-sensor camera to capture images of the predators.

"During the night they'd come in the yard and they'd kill the deer and eat them," said Byron Holloway, assistant chief of the Bellaire Police Department.

The Bellaire resident's large backyard sits adjacent to the greenbelt area surrounding the Union Pacific railroad tracks. Sightings of coyotes and bobcats are not uncommon in such areas, Holloway said.
And also along the greenbelts that surround what few area bayous we haven't denuded and concreted.

Cats and small dogs are especially in danger in such areas.

If your pet is taken by a coyote, you might never know. Six years ago Texas Parks and Wildlife mammalologist told our Wendy Grossman that unlike stray dogs, coyotes leave little evidence behind. They will eat everything, including the bones, though Young said they might leave some fur behind. If you live in an area with coyotes, he recommended putting cats on a leash. (It must be noted here that he seems to have more experience with coyotes than cats if he thinks that's a good idea, or even possible.)

While it's always open season on coyotes, but that's kind of moot, as it is against the law to discharge a firearm in Houston, Bellaire, and West University. Unless, of course, you are willing to use more creative Roadrunneresque means of coyote control.

[Waidmann]

"...more creative Roadrunneresque means of coyote control." You mean like chocolate and coffee? :)

You know, I can imagine that a couple coyotes could kill a tame deer, since I know that sometimes they do hunt in packs. But bobcats are solitary creatures. How could a bobcat take down a deer? Isn't that rather...ambitious?

Waidmann

[Sidekick]

Kind of what I'm thinking. Maybe it's a doable situation with a smaller southern deer but I don't see a bobcat taking down a full grown whitetail around here.

[GF.]

'Pet deer'.... Exotics?

They are pretty effective little predators, though....

[dave-t.]

Cats in general can hunt game 6x their size. That is a fact, but dangerous for the cat. I could see a 25-30lb cat taking a 80-100lb deer though. 100-150lb mt lions do hunt elk, if that gives you a comparison.