why does it take so long for guys to learn from what they see works in the field?

[rimrock]

why does it take so long for guys to learn from what they see works in the field?
Ive hunted with dozens of guys over the last 45 plus years and as we age we all become a bit smarter in or equipment choices, we tend to take a bit less in day packs to lower the loads, we all seem to have learned to carry, and select better quality equipment, and AT LEAST among my friends, theres been a slow but obvious drift to larger caliber, cartridges, and smaller scopes, lighter rifles and carbines ,sometimes in non-magnum calibers.
where the, 264 mags ,270 win, 7mm and 30 cal mags ,and 24"-26" barrels were all the rage and 3x9x and 4x-12x scopes were almost universal in the 1970-80s, semi autos were more common, the current rifles tend to be carbines in calibers like 30/06-35 whelen, 358win, 338 win , 375H&H and 45/70 , and scopes like 2x-7x and strait 4x are now much more commonly seen, now, and single shots and carbines are far more common.
most guys don,t carry a pistol any longer, most carry a smaller knife.
theres an obvious shift from bragging about making long shots that connected to how close we got before dropping the hammer, on mule deer and elk.
theres a marked tendency for guys to be far more discerning about where they shoot game, in relation to road access, with at least some thought on how its going to be retrieved, or even If a shot will be taken while in years past, if it was legal it usually got shot and the thinking about retrieval only came later.
we have obviously as a group changed in both or skill levels and equipment choices , but its taken years.

comments?

[Badger]

rimrock,

Very good post. I believe the biggest change is that the average hunter is getting older; hence, lighter guns and packs. Being older, most hunters now hunt instead of making a day in the woods a forced march up hill and down dale. The years have taken their toll and with age has come wisdom.

Badger

[Twanger]

Rimrock - I enjoyed the post!
I'm gravitating more and more towards the muzzleloading pistol - it's a dream to carry if you're going to be in the field all day. Getting close to deer is the fun of it anyhow, and why I hunt mostly with a bow.
The biggest issue with the pistol is accuracy - I'm limited to about 50 yards because I can't hold the dang thing still, but I do shoot most deer inside 50 yards.
I guess I'm still not good enough to shoot 'em close to the road, because on public land in Maryland I don't see many close to the road. They get shot out pretty fast.

[GF.]

Shot out or runnoft? ;)

I dunno.... Is it as simple as "We get too soon old and too late schmart?" Or is it the stages of a hunter's life, in which we go from wanting to tag out every time to caring more about the how & why of it?

Young guys always have a 'newer, better way' than the Queer Old Farts who are set in their ways, and the young are always able to talk themselves into More Power, because they think some of that fearsomeness will rub off. And if More Power weighs a coupla pounds more than 'plenty good enough', then it only adds to their Overall Manliness.

Somewhere in there we wise up. Turns out that a lot of those QOFs are set in their ways not because that's the way they've always done things, but because they've tried all the 'newer/better/faster/smarter' ways and figured out what really does work. Once I got over my Hammer of Thor complex with the 7 Mag and started hunting for 20-yard shots instead of 400-yarders, I found that one-hundred-yard shots were the rarity, because you don't usually see 'em that far out. And 50-80 yards is a pretty easy distance to close within, unless the animals are horribly, horribly pressured, but once that happens, seeing them anywhere that's open enough to contemplate the longer shots is pretty well off the table.

But to Twang's point, sometimes you gotta go where they are, but a Crafty Old Dude can often find himself something entirely shootable without having to venture quite so deep into the thick as he used to....

[Sidekick]

I learned a few lessons from my Grandpa. For one thing you don't need a bunch of fancy stuff. He carried everything he needed in the bucket he sat on. I think there was more food in it than anything ;) But the biggest lesson was patience. Just sit still and stay there. It's good advice for fishing too. Come to think of it he showed me an awful lot while I was growing up. Everything from how to make a "witching" stick to find water to how a guy was supposed to behave in this life.

[rimrock]

I just got a call, from one of my long time hunt buddies asking me If I wanted a deal on one of his BLR carbines, we got to talking and I asked him why he was selling it, he said " I got to thinking over the last 15 years , and Ive only used my 358 win BLR, or my 257 roberts , on every hunt Ive been on, so it seems foolish at my age not to sell off my other rifles to some younger guys who will get a lot more use from them" (hes in his 70s), now he at one time had probably 30 deer/elk rifles but I can see the logic, safe queens don,t do you much good especially when your kids have no interest in hunting like his kids.
(btw he brought his son out hunting quite a bit when the kid was in his teens but the kids more interested in computers and his job)

[Twanger]

I agree with patience.
Spending time in the woods, patience in all things, and a wee bit O' the Irish luck.
The more you hunt, the luckier you get!

[GF.]

Patience is only a virtue if you put the time to good use. You can sit on your can all day long, all season long, and depending on how poorly you've chosen your spot, you may not see anything the whole time. And if you're out there paying no attention to anything, you won't even learn enough to sit in a better spot next time..... At that rate, Job himself would never fill a tag, except maybe during rut....

Seems to me that the guys who are really good are the ones who've learned to pay attention to everything, and they do it all the time - the same way that the deer must do in order to survive. It's like when you hear an interview with a soldier who picked up on an IED and kept himself and his crew intact by spotting a small amount of fresh dirt or a stray bit of wire along the side of the road, or who noticed a tripwire strung across a trail in the brush. I listen to stuff like that and wonder how in the hell they do it, but they've been trained to pay attention and they know what the stakes are.

Anyway, when you're that good in the woods, I don't suppose you need to rely on a lot of fancy weaponry and other geegaws that only weigh you down, and you probably even learn to notice those tiny pockets of cover that are 'too small' or even 'too close to the road' to bother with... and where the big guys know they're safe... right under the noses of the men who hunt them.....

[Twanger]

... and where the big guys know they're safe... right under the noses of the men who hunt them.....

Makes me think of a story... while driving up to State College PA a few years back I saw an absolute moose of a whitetail buck bedded down in a back-yard behind a guy's shed... in broad daylight. That buck had found a safe little spot, right out in the open for all to see. The landowner probably never knew that buck bedded there.

[Dwayne]

Good post.

Me? I guess I am a OF. I carry VERY little out to the field. When Rifle hunting I carry the following:

1. Napkins and cleanex's
2. Muzzleloader with a total of 3 changes.
3. Cell phone.

That's it!

I figure if I hit one, I am going to have to haul stuff in to get the deer out, so I may as well haul it all in at the time of the harvest. If it is at night time, I may as well go back and get flashlight, lanterns, knife, tow rope, breast saw, and whatever else, and it is MUCH 'easier to carry this stuff WITHOUT your rifle. If you can get your truck back there, that is even better.

And if you don't hit one. . .you have nothing to carry out but your gun.

Dwayne

[Greybeard]

My gear through the years has mostly followed Rimrock's. My rifle of choice is now a 6.5 pound .270 WSM with a fixed 6X42 Leupy on it. I t kills every thing I hunt up through moose and black bear and shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yards with 140 grain Nosler Accubonds. That is all I use now for everything. My binocs are quality 8x32. My knife is smaller but I pack a second one for skinning. My pack is a bit lighter, and at the end of the season I do put less in it. I leave my axe in the truck now along with a deer cart which also works well for elk quarters. No more backpacking for me.

At 71, I need to start selling my other rilfles: 2 Weatherbys (.340 mag. and a .270 Rem mag. both Alaska models), Sako TRGS .300 Win mag., Ruger 30-06 full Austrian-type stock, Remington Model 725-280 Rem., Winchester Win Lite .280 Remington. These are all excellent condition. If any interest give me a private message and I'll give more info and figure out an asking price. I'll list these also in the buy and sell post. Greybeard/

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

It goes in phases. When I was young I carried my rifle, knife and a few extra rounds in my pocket. As I grew older and had more ching, I added binoculars and a 22 pistol. When my boys got old enough to hunt we started acquiring gadgetry mainly because more hours were spent in the sporting goods department than in the field. Then came the time when I felt like I was carrying the sporting goods department into the field. Im kinda going back the other way now too (I'm not near as mad at the deer anymore either). I've found that the best way to get venison is to hang around camp and cop a ham or a BS off of one of the boys. They're still trigger-happy. I still carry a pistol in the field though. Rifles are too heavy and I've got these pistols, I need to carry them along.

I doubt I'll ever sell a gun. I've got three sons that all hunt and shoot, so mine will go to good use.

Alan