Taking something new on my hike

[bill m]

This summer is going to be a different hiking experience for me. I'm still recovering from disk surgery and just don't think I'm going to be up to a distance hike. So we're going to do some trials.
We have picked an area out that will give us a total mileage of about 20 miles and include four lakes. We're going in for the usual 8 to 10 days and are going to test a whole new batch of homemade gear.
I picked this area because nobody goes into this area. It's a hidden jewel. I just want the privacy so I don't look like a superfreak with all of this funky looking stuff.
I've got a wood burning stove that I'm making out of a one quart juice tin can. I'll be taking three of them with different draft systems on them to see which one I like the best. I'll also work on a way to use damp or punky wood without it being a hassle. I have a little alcohol stove that I made from some directions I got from a 7th grader at a science fair at my son's school. I don't think that the alcohol will be hot enough. But it only weighs about one ounce. I won't even know it's there.
My partner and I are making a fish smoker. It's light and folds up really small. We're only in the designing stage right now. I really hope it works. I'll bet it will at least work better to get the bear to come in than a few dozzen Crispy Cremes.
Those are the things that we have for certain. A few more are still in the thinking stage. If they become real, I'll share them.
I'm hoping mostly to really refine the wood stoves. Imagine hiking long distance without having to carry a heavy stove and fuel. My stove is light. But a can is lighter.
I'll post some pics when we get that far.
Too much fun....

[Rock Chuck]

My wife and I are also trying something new to lighten the load. I'm getting too old to be packing a 1/4 elk on my back.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n267/rockchuck/Butch1sttimesaddledLR.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n267/rockchuck/BlueLR.jpg

[Altjaeger]

Good luck to you both. I will be interested in how the llamas work out.

Bill before gas and electricity were so commonly available many wives cooked on alcohol stoves in the summer to aviod the heat of a woodstove in the kitchen. You may be surprised.:smile:

[bill m]

I love those things!
I went with donkeys a few years ago. I don't have anything to compare them to. But they seemed OK.
What's the difference between a Llama and an Alpaca? No, it's not a joke. I really do wonder.
How much can they pack comfortably? Does that weight include the blanket and Pannier? Do you have to pack food for them?
Do you have to worry about Ticks?
I don't want to wear you out with questions. You'll have to show some pics with them loaded. Can't wait.

Altjaeger,
My whole gig with packable stuff has always been weight. When I think about Alcohol, I worry that the amount of fuel you would have to carry would go up. I have no experience with Alcohol so I can't speak with any real knowledge. I do know that a bottle of fuel adds alot of weight and takes up space in a pack.
Coleman fuel in the right stove heats very fast. So less fuel used. I'll have to spend some time playing with alcohol.

[Rock Chuck]

Llamas and alpacas are very similar and can be readily interbred. The biggest difference is size, plus alpacas have been bred for wool production. They're too small to carry a load although some people use them to carry a picnic lunch. A really big llama can hit 500 lb although 400 for geldings & studs is more common. I doubt an alpaca will hit 200 if even that big.

A llama in good shape can carry 1/4 to 1/3 of it's weight so 80 to 100 lb is a decent load for one. That inlcudes the saddle, but they don't weigh 10 lb. I'm training mine to pack now. I picked up 3 saddles & panniers on craigslist a few weeks ago. I'll be adding some weight pretty soon. The weight isn't any big deal. The hard part is getting them to calculate the added width so the don't hang up on trees.

I've talked to 2 packers about carrying feed. Neither take anything in the summer. Llamas will eat almost anything, including sagebrush and pine needles. One of mine was eating on a juniper the other day and they've about stripped all the bark off a couple Russian olives in my pasture this winter. One packer told me that if you have a field that needs to be cleaned of sagebrush, just turn some llamas loose on it. They'll eat it down to the ground. For late season hunts, he carries about a quart of alfalfa pellets/grain mix for each animal per day to supplement what they can scrounge.

I suppose ticks will get on them the same as any other animal. I hadn't given it a thought.

That appaloosa in the 2d pic - I just dropped him off at the vet to get whacked. He's too randy for my little herd. I've only had him 4 days and I'm getting tired of breaking up stud fights. He's 3 and pretty small, but I got him free. He has the attitude for being a good packer, though. He's stout for his size and I can get him to do about anything. By next year, he should be able to handle 70 to 80 lb. He'll get some action this summer with maybe 40 to 50 lb.

[Rock Chuck]

Before we got the llamas, we took a good look at donkeys. They'll carry more weight, even a mini can handle 100 lb. But, llamas just seems better for us. They're much easier to train and the feed item is a big one. Not having to haul feed is a big bonus. A few years ago, you'd pay a couple thou for about any llama. Now you get a fully mature, experienced one for 800 to 1000. If you want to train your own, as I'm doing, there are a lots of them out there for 200 or less.

[bill m]

They look pretty nimble. As you know, trail conditions can change and leave you really scrounging for a way to get through.

Horse teams carry saws; sometimes a chainsaw. With the smaller animals, weight is critical enough that the weight limits would probably keep you from carrying a chain saw. A hand saw might be OK. But I've seen some pretty big wind-falls across trails that I sure wouldn't want to have to cut up with a hand saw.

Once with the donkeys, we had a bridge that was gone and some trees across the trail that they couldn't get over. With the bridge, we had to ford the creek. Old donkey took lots of coaxing. And we had to unload him and carry the gear across. With the trees, we managed a detour. But the detour was harder than the ford. In both cases we had to unload and carry the gear.

I would hate to be on my way and end up having to turn around because the animals can't get around something.

Do you consider that kind of stuff? Is there any protocol or pre-planning for that?

I'm the guy that likes to be prepared for everything or have the inginuity to figure my way through. Sometimes that's a real challenge though.

[Rock Chuck]

Llamas give you more options for getting around obstacles because they can almost climb trees. I've lead them up an down hills where I was scrambling on all fours. They'll just walk straight up and down like a deer. One of the best things about them is that they're very smart. If they get in trouble, they might take an initial buck, but then they'll stand still to figure it out instead of creating a rodeo.

Hand raised llamas can be turned loose to feed and they'll hang around. Mine are all store bought and while they're getting very gentle, I don't think I could catch them outside of a pasture. Staking them out is merely a matter of stretching a long rope out on the ground tied to trees or something at each end. Put in an occasional tie ring and snap the llamas to leads long enough so they don't get tangled together. After they've done this at home a few times, you can leave them tied for a long time. I've tried the screw-in dog tether gizmos but they don't work very well. The llamas will soon have the leads wound up tight around them. With the long rope stretched out on the ground, it can't get tangled.

There's one very unusual thing about llamas - they will normally only pee and crap in a communal pile, located wherever they want it. They will hold it in pain until they can get to that pile. You need to give them a chance to go several times a day. I've heard of some campers going so far as to take along a coffee can full of poop on a trip. They will find a favorable place for the dung pile and dump the can there. That will establish the pile and the llamas will use it If they move camp, they scoop up a fresh can to take with them. They will have to be desperate to dump in a trailer but it will happen on occasion. Like us, they can only hold it so long.