Proof PGC QDM was broke - reduced doe license allocations in almost all units

[hellrazor]

BOARD APPROVES ANTLERLESS DEER LICENSE ALLOCATIONS

The Board of Game Commissioners gave final approval to a slate of deer seasons for the 2010-11 seasons that includes holding a split, five-day antlered deer season (Nov. 29-Dec. 3) and seven-day concurrent season (Dec. 4-11) in Wildlife Management Units (WMUs) 2C, 2D, 2E, 2G, 3C, 4B, 4D and 4E. The package retains the two-week (Nov. 29-Dec. 11) concurrent, antlered and antlerless deer season in the remaining 14 WMUs.

Two other changes adopted are to eliminate the two-week antlerless deer season held following the close of the regular firearms season leading up to Christmas in WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D, and to run a concurrent antlered/antlerless deer season for late-season archery hunters in WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D from Dec. 27-Jan. 29.

Hunters with DMAP antlerless deer permits may use them on the lands for which they were issued during any established deer season, and will continue to be permitted to harvest antlerless deer from Nov. 29-Dec. 11 in WMUs 2C, 2D, 2E, 2G, 3C, 4B, 4D and 4E.

Fees for DMAP permits are $10 for residents and $35 for nonresidents.



WMU 1A allocation will be 41,705, which is decrease from last year’s allocation of 42,000.

WMU 1B allocation will be 27,844, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 30,000.

WMU 2A allocation will be 54,879, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 55,000.

WMU 2B allocation will be 68,000, which is the same as last year’s. DMAP is not available this year for WMU 2B.

WMU 2C allocation will be 44,107, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 49,000.

WMU 2D allocation will be 50,123, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 56,000.

WMU 2E allocation will be 20,407, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 21,000.

WMU 2F allocation will be 22,148, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 28,000.

WMU 2G allocation will be 15,210, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 26,000.

WMU 3A allocation will be 25,247, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 26,000.

WMU 3B allocation will be 33,761, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 43,000.

WMU 3C allocation will be 26,358, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 27,000.

WMU 3D allocation will be 31,622, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 37,000.

WMU 4A allocation will be 27,521, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 29,000.

WMU 4B allocation will be 22,148, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 23,000.

WMU 4C allocation will be 34,351, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 35,000.

WMU 4D allocation will be 30,052, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 40,000.

WMU 4E allocation will be 26,899, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 30,000.

WMU 5A allocation will be 18,269, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 19,000.

WMU 5B allocation will be 50,812, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 51,000.

WMU 5C allocation will be 121,960, which is an increase from last year’s allocation of 113,000.

WMU 5D allocation will be 22,000, which is the same as last year’s. DMAP is not available this year for WMU 5D.

[kjjm4]

How is this "proof" of anything other than successful herd reduction? In most WMUs the goal was to reduce the number of deer. One would logically assume that once that goal had been reached the PGC would reduce the number of tags issued in an effort to hold the populations steady rather than continue to reduce them.

[hellrazor]

WMU 4D allocation will be 30,052, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 40,000.

The WMU I hunt in and look a 25% reduction. Oh and look... No more doe hunting the first week of buck...

Anyone have a picture of our Texan experts eating crow?

[Altjaeger]

WMU 4D allocation will be 30,052, which is a decrease from last year’s allocation of 40,000.

The WMU I hunt in and look a 25% reduction. Oh and look... No more doe hunting the first week of buck...

Anyone have a picture of our Texan experts eating crow?

Eat crow because you provide proof of success? Still waiting for your detailed explanation of how this proves failure. It should be almost as amusing as Badger's claims. :laugh:

[southtexas]

the observer's conclusion, that a reduction in the number of deer permits is somehow proof of QDM failure...

is actually conclusive proof that the observer has no clue what the definition of "proof" is.

[venado]

There was an error in writing the initial Thread Title as it would have been accurate to title it:

PGC QDM Success at Herd Reduction Has Been Confirmed By Reduced Antlerless Allocations

(Maybe HA needs an official thread title editor..!:rofl: )

The problem since the very beginning of the "Alt HR Plan" has been that there is a relatively small percentage of PA ha-ha-hunters that were against herd reduction even though the science and professionals concluded that it was essential for the future of the sport in PA.

The QDM position is much like those that believe in fiscal responsibility vs. out of control spending and how each will effect our children and grand-children. It would be very interesting to see what percentage of those that follow the USP line of thought were politically conservative vs. politically liberal since the USP approach to deer numbers parallels that of the liberal's line of thought: 'To heck with the future, do not mess with my "today".'

[GF.]

JMO, the reductions (trivial in most cases) from big, round numbers to lower, more precise figures is 'proof' that the BGC is growing more confident in their estimates of the population and is recalibrating their tag distribution accordingly; in some units, the success rates must have been either much lower or higher than anticipated, and they've cut the tag allocations much more aggressively in order to prevent an 'overhunted' situation from developing in the future...

In other words, they've planned according to DATA and they're now responding to the DATA and they will then look at next year's DATA and adjust accordingly...

Which is PROOF that they're doing their jobs to the best of their ability. After all, if eradication were the goal, the allocation figures would be flat or even up, no?

Or is that more logic than you care to follow?

[Badger]

hellrazor,

Great post! I disregard Texas "experts" as they know less than nothing about Pennsylvania. None of the Texans ever explained how we had "Too Many PA deer year-by-year, yet we had MANY deer year-by-year despite all the ALLEGED Habitat Destruction?"

It is time to give the FEW remaining PA deer a break and FOCUS on ACID RAIN for FAILED forest RESTORATION. Thank God for the Unified Sportsmen Of Pennsylvania and their PROPER Questions before the PA deer joined the American Bison circa 1885! Many numb nuts went West to shoot Bison then, BUT there were NONE! Duh! IF numb nuts SHOOT every doe the see, they then are CLUELESS when they see NO deer the next year! PA NEVER went the way of QDM, rather it was a plan to make our Game Lands a Tree Farm.

Badger

[Renegade]

The problem here is that if you talked yourself into believing all the misinformation out there that attempts to paint a bad picture of the states wildlife management experts, then the end result will always appear better. Even though it was the end result all along. Did you seriously think the PGC would keep allocations that high forever? (even though they have been continually lowering them since 2005) I'm not sure how one could even conclude this points to any kind of failure or that something was broken. It's been in the plans all along.
The season length change though was a mistake in my opinion. It's not only upset a lot of folks that welcomed an opportunity to hunt doe due to not being able to take any time off during the second week, but it also was a premature move to pacify a few politicians. There is currently a study underway with 4 other units to see the difference in effect of lowering allocations vs. season lengths. The only benefit to it is to allow hunters to see more deer during buck season and not have to worry about shooting one.

Badger - Your always good with calling people who debunk your opinions names in a pathetic attempt to discredit them, by why not for once put your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap. Why don't you explain to us how plants and trees grow fine when inside exclosure fences where the only variable eliminated was the deer? Explain what will replace the oaks as the number one mast producing tree in PA.? Explain why even Dr. Sharpe, the uspee'rs claimed lord al' mighty said that "acidic soils are only partly to blame", the same thing the PGC has said. And how about commenting on the fact that acid deposition has been reduced and the possible negative ramifications to our streams from it due to rising amounts of carbon dioxide. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061212091300.htm

Here's some interesting reading for you that I'd be interested in hearing your comments on. http://cambria.extension.psu.edu/nresources/RegSeries6.htm

And finally, what is your remedy / solution to this problem of acid rain?

[Badger]

Renegade,

I never heard of your "Dr. Sharpe." Who is he/she? If you wish to "debunk my opinions", why not come here to my farm and show me what this PA farmer cannot see? Send me a PM and I will vector you in. We can view fenced enclosures and you can point out the better habitat.

There are NO oaks on my farms. The CLIMAX tree generation were conifers in PA and NOT hardwoods, so why are you surprised there are fewer oaks? My "Remedy/Solution to the problem of acid rain" is for the electric generating plants West of PA to STOP emitting Sulphur Dioxide from Coal -Fired Plants! This is not my opinion. Do some research and get a bit smarter, if you can.

Where are you in PA? Do you have a farm or are you a couch potato with a head full of thoughts? Come visit my farms and see what you cannot see on PGC news releases.

Badger

[venado]

In summary Renegade, Badger will not read your links because..... well just because...:stupido:

[Renegade]

You never heard of Dr. William Sharpe but yet you claim all the forests problems are acid rain. This shows alot about how much research you've done into the subject of acid deposition. You can't read any of the PUS claims about acid rain without seeing Dr. Sharpe mentioned. Or at least you couldn't until he burst their bubble with his comment that took the wind out of their sail. And the same goes with acid deposition and Pa. Do a search and see if his name isn't mentioned.

Why would I come to your farm? Your farm is not representative of PA. See that's the thing, too many people want to base their perception of the entire state on their own little minute piece of the state. This is why I've gone to at least 10 habitat tours around the state in the 4 corners of the state and I live and hunt in the center of the state, regularly hunting a 3 county area but have hunted in 9 different counties that I can think of off hand. I'm not stuck on a farm hunting private land from some treehouse overlooking some fields. And also, those tours had been advertised for months in advance and I personally challenged some naysayers to come to them, even offering some of them rides. But it never failed that they never showed up and there may have been 1 or 2 guys who came, doubting the habitat issues, and they left with a whole new enlightened outlook on the subject. I suggest you try that as well. What area of the state do you live in and I'll give you a heads up of any tours I hear of. I've even made videos and posted them for those interested in watching from the comfort of their own couch!

"There are NO oaks on my farms." Must be mostly fields then. (makes for better farming:hmmmm: ya know)

"The CLIMAX tree generation were conifers in PA and NOT hardwoods, so why are you surprised there are fewer oaks?"
Because we aren't living in the 15 and 1600's anymore toto. Any major disturbance changes the forest diversity. Do you even know what a "climax" forest is? Most of PA is primarily an oak/hickory forest. That doesn't mean we only have 2 different trees growing. Pa has had oaks all along but they moved into the number one spot when the chestnuts died off due to the blight in the early part of the last century. Do you think conifers are going to feed the deer, bear, turkey, grouse, and squirrels?

[Altjaeger]

I have come to understand a few things about Badger.

1. He wants an overpopulation of deer stockpiled for easy sighting and viewing.

2. Although he has had it explained how he had so many deer and how overpopulation continued it many times it was not what he wished to hear. Therefore he denies it was explained and that it existed.

3. He is so lacking in knowledgable of both forestry and deer that he does not understand that both conifer and climax forests are relative biological deserts.

4. He wants numbers so badly he will deny that overpopulation was ever a problem using the excuse that massive die offs never occurred.

5. I have not doubt that he once had deer at least crossing his farm. Now that herds are being balanced I suspect that they no longer are inhabiting marginal lands and will not again until overpopulated. Since he does not understand proper forestry for wildlife habitat I am sure he could not manage his property to encourage deer habitation there. Sadly farmers are sometimes the worst of wildlife managers. They confuse it with livestock.

6. Badger really wants a lot of deer even if it means overpopulation.

[pepaw]

Sounds like the plan is working and being tweaked. A failure would have been to keep the number of permits the same.

"There are NO oaks on my farms."

Not exactly prime deer habitat then. Deer stay where the buffet and cover is better

I am planting oaks every year on my place to replace the ones dying of old age. Only difference is I am picking the locations and trying some new types.
I complain about our counties rules, but I also work and spend my dollars to improve my land year around.

pepaw

[GF.]

BTW, Renegade....

I'd be happy to come on down there some time and sample some of that horrible, unproductive hunting... You know, just in case you guys can't 'meat' your doe quota ;)

[Renegade]

:o I hear they sighted a deer somewhere in the southeast corner of the state, but instead of going down there to fight the crowds that will surely flock there come deer season, some of the locals are setting up industrial sized fans in our oak forests and soybean fields and blowing them towards that corner of the state in hopes of enticing it by aroma to migrate up this way by the time deer season starts.
Your welcome to come down and be an extra set of eyes for this elusive whitetail. Maybe you could pick up Badger on your way through. His farm is the one setting in the oakless region of the state on your left.:cool1:

[GF.]

Not to drag them into this, but I do have to wonder how well some greenhorn like Herne or Bowman might make out in a barren wasteland like that......

[venado]

GF, there is no doubt that Hearne would have real problems, after all even if he found a whitetail and recognized it as such, he probably would be armed with an obsolete 270 caliber shooting 150 grainers and they would just bounce off of a wiley (no tracks in the snow) PA whitail.:fight: