Load data for bullets that are shared between rifle and handgun

[bill m]

I was on another forum and reading some threads in the Reloading section. A poster that was new to reloading was sharing what he was going to do with his 357 mags. These bullets were going to be shared between a Marlin 94 and a Rossi handgun.
Now I think that the Rossi is a replica and I know that some replica's are not intended to have full-house loads shot through them. I'm unsure about this one.
I saw the loads that he was wanting to use. They were full-house using 2400.
When I went to my Hornady manual, I found his load in the handgun data. Next I paged back to the rifle data and, as I thought, saw that the handgun load would be an overload by about .5 gr.
.5 gr is not that much. But it is over the limit and I believe a bad practice.
I load 44 mags for both rifle and handgun. I always use the rifle data. As long as I am going to share ammo between the two, I use the lesser of the max loads.
Now I was suprised that so many seemingly experienced reloaders had answered his post and never brought that up. So I wonder where we here stand on that.
Is .5 gr not enough to be concerned about?

[Bill Gunn]

I think there's way to many variables to make a flat statement.
Reloading manuals are only guides. I feel the load levels should NOT be exceeded, but also, I have a 270 that is a super tack driver with IMR 4064, and Sierra 130 bullets EXCEPT it will NOT shoot the max loads listed in the Sierra manual. If you use the max listed load you get blown primers, and stretched cases.
Every gun is different....

[dave-t.]

I haven't looked up the info, but I would think the rifles could take stronger loads than the pistols. That would depend on the rifle though.

I have been worrying about loading to near max levels with my .257 Roberts. The Hornady info has a max charge of 47.2grn RL19 for the hornady 117grn bullet. Sierra, Speer, and Swift all have to max load for 117-120grn bullets at 43.9-44.2, and I'm starting to wonder if I should back off my Hornady loads, since they are close to 10% over every other manufacturer's information.

The primers are awful flat with my 47grn RL19 load that is getting .5-.7" groups, but I'd like to see some chrono results of the load just to see how far I'm pushing it. I may just drop the powder charge and work up again. No need to chase that last 100fps if it's going to possibly be dangerous.

[bill m]

Back when I first started reloading for both 44 handgun and revolver, I noticed the two different load datas. I e-mailed Hornady since I work from the Hornady manual to ask a few questions.
They explained to me that a rifle will build more pressure because of the longer barrel. Pressure isn't entirely released from the barrel until the bullet is out. So it takes less to produce high pressure.
They explained that their data is based on the use of the components listed. Changing the bullet, primer, or lot number of powder can result in pressures different than test findings. Though powder is something we trust the manufacturer to produce correctly, the two main things that they stressed to me were the use of bullets and primers; use Speer data for Speer bullets, Hornady data for Hornady bullets, primers are different, etc....
My experience is with 44 mag. With the 265 gr. FP, top load data with Win 296 is 23.5 gr. for the handgun. In the rifle, max is 19.2 gr. That seems to me to be a significant difference. I would not load these for my handgun and, then, use them in my rifle. I load all of my 44's to the rifle data so that I don't have to keep them separate. So that was good information for me when I was a new loader.
I've always been very cautious with my loading and saw this issue not being talked about. Since I don't have lots of years of experience behind me, I felt the need to get some opinions.
Thanks.

[dave-t.]

That is good info.

[bill m]

Thanks dave-t. It's something to consider. I'm sure that many people load for handgun and shoot them in rifles. I don't hear alot of stories about their rifles blowing up. So maybe it's just a literalist viewpoint that I have.
I can't hurt myself thinking like that.

[LeeInSC]

Barrel length has nothing to do with peak pressure, which occurs very early in the process of the bullet traveling down a barrel.

But the .357 and the .44 magnums, just like the .44-40 before them, are designed for revolvers, which have a loss of gas pressure due to the gap between the cylinder and the barrel. A rifle has has no gap, so there is no loss of pressure. A rifle is going to give about 500 fps more to a .357 than it will get out of a revolver, making it a pretty potent round. That's why the manuals show a lighter load for rifles than for revolvers.

[bill m]

Well, that gap you talk about does seem to be a reasonable way for pressure to leak off. But why does TC Contender data also show loads higher than rifle data? So I think, based on what I was told, that the pressure leak on a revolver is not sufficient enough to justify the use of handgun loads in a rifle.
Like I said before, nobody seems to be blowing their rifles up. So maybe it's not enough to matter. I am just a literal loader. To me, full house handgun loads are an "Overload" for a rifle. The data supports that.
I am not the inventor of the theory about length of barrel. I was told that by a Hornady tech. That's good enough for me.

[Chuck S]

Peak pressure is quick but continuous pressure is what adds that little bit of velocity to a rifle over a pistol. Barrell length adds velocity out to 26 inches or more. Shorter barrel, less oomph. Peak pressure is firearm relative and the TC being a single shot is sturdily made hence hotter loads in the 30/30 over the standard rifle reload data which is likely for a lever action and much less peak pressure. TC and bolt action loads are usually close. Revolvers are another horse of a different color yet. Certain calibers in most revolvers are geared toward certain pressures and the way the cylinder is secured makes the primary difference. Revolver loads are often different yet from the TC or the Rifle. The gap between cylinder and frame causes a drop in velocity but I suspect it isn't much of a consideration when they are developing loads for the revolver. Tighter gap less loss, more velocity but the cylinder thickness and frame construction are the two biggies.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

In my little 92 that I just finished replacing the firing in, my grandfather used to load (357) a much hotter load than he used for handgun (S&W and Ruger BH). He always cautioned me about using the rifle rounds in a pistol. When I got it I loaded for the revolver date and shoot it in the 92 with no ill effects.

Alan

[kjjm4]

You can safely shoot .454 Casulls out of a model 92 (at least out of the new replica versions). I don't think you'd have any problem with very hot .357s out of one.

[LeeInSC]

I have been shooting .357 revolvers since forever, some with very hot loads, some not. I also shoot a Winchester saddle gun in .357 and a Marlin Cowboy II.

I see no need to shoot a hotter load than you would in your handguns, because the longer barrel is going to give you most of the extra steam, anyway. I factory .357 like a 158-gr Remington is is about the same as the original .30-30 round. Will it kill deer, hogs and cow elk inside 100 yard? All day long.

Why take the chance on loading up something hot, that you don't need, and mixing it up in your handgun, possibly hurting yourself?

[Chuck S]

Take a hint from the reloading manuals which are astute enough to spell out loads where one is most likely to run afoul of pressures. TC loads are too hot for many older lever actions just as modern 45-70 loads are too hot for many old rifles. Certain types of revolvers are load/pressure shy and that usually deals with cylinder thinness or whether or not there's a top strap across the cylinder. Load are not universally cut out for revolvers, rifles or other firearms but there are many restrictions that you should be aware of especiall when using old weapons.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

My thoughts exactly, which is why I never did it. The trouble is not necessarily that I might mix it up but that one of my sons might. Besides, in developing two different loads you have nullified the one real advantage of using the same round in a rifle and a pistol.

Alan

[Snapdragon]

I load for both rifle and revolver in .45 Colt and .44 Magnum. I normally shoot moderate loads in both rifle and revolver but have developed stiff loads that I can shoot in both. I picked a bullet that had data in both the rifle and revolver sections of the manuals and considered the data in both sections. I chose a powder that worked well in both and whose range of loads overlapped quite a bit. I then started tinkering with the loads but never went over the lower maximum. I may not get absolute maximum performance in one type of firearm but do get good performance in both. I feel safe shooting any of my reloads in any of my firearms.

[Brookee]

Its really good info.i was using 32 bore bullets and that was not enough good.