HOARDERS may cause reverse damage

[LampLighter]

Just like many on the forums preach that intra-forum bickering between members over flinklock vs. in-line, recurve vs. compound, etc. just gives the anti-hunting community ammunition, SO does Hoarding primers and ammo.

According to what I am hearing and reading, if Primers do not become available readily soon- meaning if the Greedy hoarders do not stop their panic red dawn actions, there are some talking about selling out their equipment, and giving it up, and jumping ship. They might join the antis, and write letters etc. Vote for people we don't want in office etc. There theory is, if they cannot enjoy their hobby, why stay lingering, and I'm sure they have some "i'll show the hoarders" vindictiveness built up.

Me, I have a medium, regular amount in stock. I can load what I need to right now. Sure, I keep my eye out for a brick of Large Pistol primers. If I see them, I'll scoop them up, but I have other things to do.

Right now, if a law came out limiting the amount of 1000 round boxes of primers to 1 or 2 per transaction, I would Indeed support it and vote for it. This would mean, a hoarder would have to pay for 1 box, go put it in the truck, then go back in and get another one. He/she would get tired and quit the red dawn actions. Mail order, shipping would eat them up.

Hoarders are greedy. I am not on the jump ship side, but I do understand these individuals' point. Get what you need to recreationally load and shoot, and go do other things. Surely your house needs maint., grass to cut, etc. Get your mind off of Red Dawn and Obamaism.

[GMWW]

What would be the definition of hoarder? I've always kept extra primers even before the latest panic.

Edit: I did the same with bullets, powder, and brass for years. Now that the prices have gone through the roof I'm confident I'll have enough until the supplies in the market come back. I wouldn't be able to afford it right now.

[LampLighter]

Hoarders know who they are. If you purposely learn the truck arrival dates of your supplier, and skip work to be there to beat the working folk to the punch, buy all the 1000 round boxes of primers that arrived that day when at home he/she has the equivelent amount already in stock, you are a greedy hoarder.

[GMWW]

LOL that wouldn't fit me. Hell I couldn't afford it even if I wanted to.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I wouldn't support any kind of law limiting anything about guns, ammo, or components. Most places I go to will only sell one brick to a customer anyway. One place would only sell one box of 100 per customer.

Alan

[southtexas]

I agree, Alan. Seems like these days everyone thinks to solution to any problem is: "there outa be a law..." Scares me.

[Altjaeger]

I suspect over the next three years we will see what that liberal mantra of a new law will fix anything brings. I will oppose any new regulation of firearms control and support the repeal of those that exist. No thanks, LL. That is a long term solution to a short term problem, just like suicide. :rolleyes:

[Sabre]

I suspect over the next three years we will see what that liberal mantra of a new law wil fix anything brings. I will oppose any new regulation of firearms control and support the repeal of those that exist. No thanks, LL. That is a long term solution to a short term problem, just like suicide. :rolleyes:

Exactly ! We've got about a million too many oppressive, freedom robbing, unconstitutional laws on the books now. NO MORE DAMN IT !

[LampLighter]

Here is a quote taken from this very same board, different thread.


I buy them when I see them. Even if they will only sell me 100 at a time, I just buy what I can, when I can.

So poor Joe who had to work Saturday, didn't make it to Bob's Sporting Goods until Sunday. All gone. :mad:

Not good .


Here is just one of many, many comments on hoarding from elsewhere that I frequent :

Guess I'm getting a bit miffed at all the people hoarding ammo and buying up whatever stock is available...not what they need. People should have some consideration for others during this time when ammo is in short supply. Obama's NOT going to be able to outlaw gun ownership, nor will congress go along with this. That's political suicide. Sooo...guys and gals, when you go down to your local ammo shop--buy what you need...NOT what's available.

http://guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1317

[snake river rufus]

Seems like these days everyone thinks to solution to any problem is: "there outa be a law..." Scares me.

Roger that.

[snake river rufus]

Guess I'm getting a bit miffed at all the people hoarding ammo and buying up whatever stock is available...not what they need.

buy what you need...NOT what's available.

http://guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1317

While I agree with your frustration, this country is a republic. You do not get to decide what I or anyone else "needs".

[LampLighter]

That is because unlike the Old School, people today are unable to police themselves. Common sense is out the window these days. Me, Myself, and I are the only 3- people look out for these days. That is why people hollar law.



You do not get to decide what I or anyone else "needs".
__________________



Ah, but you see, I/we somewhat DO get to decide. When people have had enough, they abondon "the cause" and jump ship. Then- they vote in people we don't like. That is the point of this thread. So, to prevent that, when you know you have a closet full of primers already, next time you see Joe Blow's Sporting Goods got a shipment in, you WALK away, and leave them for those who have none. THAT- my friend, is the point.

[snake river rufus]

[QUOTE=LampLighter;1686Ah, but you see, I/we somewhat DO get to decide. When people have had enough, they abondon "the cause" and jump ship. Then- they vote in people we don't like.[/QUOTE]

I have a bit of trouble making the leap between your use of the words "ship" and "then.
People may jump ship but I'm find it hard to believe thae these people will suddenly start voting for the antis.

[LampLighter]

Think about it. You have a room full of reload equip. You cannot use it, because you have been unable to obtain components for a year. I don't know about you, but I see and welcome change in life when it comes. I do not get set in ways. I'd sell off the equipment,or box it up and stow it. There are many hobbies I'd take up.

Some people would harbor vindictiveness towards the greedy, and jump ship and join the other side. Look at Obama. Everybody set in their ways sat back and said it couldn't happen. Those voters came from somewhere. I met a few rural red necks that hunt, who voted for him. These new generation folks do not get set in their ways. They welcome change. We must adjust and get out of our "same ol routine."

For example, look at Brownie's Tavern. I talk over there. Nothing wrong with it. But I could have taken it or left it. A new forum, new changes. Adapt. Some people were completely lost without it. You cannot get set in the same ol ways. Today's people will jump ship. The whole point is if you have a closet full of primers, leave some at the store for others. I guarantee some folks put aside other things financially to use the money for yet more primers. Get your wife that dress she has been wanting. What about that rotton soffit on your house. Get some Douglas fir boards. Not yet more primers.

[snake river rufus]

Think about it. You have a room full of reload equip. You cannot use it, because you have been unable to obtain components for a year. I don't know about you, but I see and welcome change in life when it comes. I do not get set in ways. I'd sell off the equipment,or box it up and stow it. There are many hobbies I'd take up.


But the people who are thinking about this scenerio are the ones "hoarding" and while some of them may get carried away that is their business and, indeed, their right. I can't comment on what you might take up.

[snake river rufus]

Some people would harbor vindictiveness towards the greedy, and jump ship and join the other side. Look at Obama. Everybody set in their ways sat back and said it couldn't happen. Those voters came from somewhere. I met a few rural red necks that hunt, who voted for him. These new generation folks do not get set in their ways. They welcome change. We must adjust and get out of our "same ol routine."


What you call "greedy", I would call insightful or thinking ahead. And I'm still not making the leap that normal people would vote against shooters/hunters/reloaders. As for the election of obama, that is the fault of the Republican ticket more than some abstract idea of "change".ranted the young people chanted (and voted) that mantra but I'm not seeing too much of that "thinking" among average voters.
The point is that, as a retiree, I have time to shoot as much as I want. And as much as I want is more than 100 rds a weekend.

[snake river rufus]

Lamplighter,
I see by your bio that you own a small business in La.
So a hypothetical question,,
If you were a building contractor, rebuilding homes after Katrina, would you limit how much lumber each home owner could use? And what would say to a customer who wanted to build a bigger new home?

[GMWW]

I don't make it a point to actively search for components unless I'm running low. However, when I out and about and a run across components that I know are becoming scares or something I'm low on I'll buy what I can.

ie. lead is becoming scarce. Do I currently have enough? Sort of but I know if I wait until I'm low it will either be gone or too expensive to purchase. The writing is on the wall for some of these things. Look at the cost of brass. It went up mostly in the beginning because of the price of metal was going up. I'm glad I had purchased quantities of it as a routine before the price hike.

[LampLighter]

As long As the contractor does not rent a mini storage and stockpile the 2x4's just to have, then he is ok.

You see the hoarders. When they are walking towards the store, or gun show door, they are like on a mission. They cannot be distracted, won't look to the side, won't stop for a chat. They are tunnel visioned. They know in advance where the buggys are kept, and how long it takes to get to the sports section of the store. They don't care about price . If the primers and/or ammo are behind the counter , and the counter guy is busy talking with another customer, they begin to burn up and panic. They wan't badly to end that conversation so that the counter guy will focus on them. Any time now those primers might sprout wings and fly off.

Oh yeah, I've got their number. ;)

[southtexas]

Sooooo....if I promise not to buy any primers, then Obama will be a 1 term pres??:)

[StringJumper]

Sure, I keep my eye out for a brick of Large Pistol primers. If I see them, I'll scoop them up

Is this an example of "do as I say, not as I do?"

And BTW...I really don't see anyone flipping from reloading enthusiast to anti-gun activist just because they can't find a pound of powder.

I understand your frustration and can empathize. I just bought a 223 and cannot find ANY small rifle primers. My dealer put in a special order but cannot promise any delivery date. But I don't believe that adding more laws is the answer and I firmly believe the free market system works, and the supply and demand will equalize in due time. You may not be real happy at the price point where it equalizes, but it will equalize none the less.

Take your business as an example again. I don't know what you sell or do but I bet you price your goods and services based primarily on what the market will bear - not necessarily what you think they are worth. For example if everyone is selling a garden rake for $200, and the consumers are willing to pay $200, I bet you don't price that same rake for $12.50.

In other words, as a business owner I bet either consciously or unconsciously that you use the free market system.

[skb2706]

Those of us who have the handloading supplies we need would not refer to what we do as hoarding, at my house we call it smart shopping. I had all the supplies I needed to take me well beyond the current shortages. I bought bricks of sr primers 5-7 years ago at gun shows when the going rate was $17/1000, stacks of varmint bullets at $10/100 or $28/250, powder for $16/lb. I also collect range brass by the bag full, bought brass when it was on sale and keep an eye out for the best deals all the time. Now I sit back and listen to the bitchin and wonder why didn't ya just get what ya needed back then and instead of crackin off 500 rds. of .223 surplus and leaving the brass, pick it up. Same with your 9mm, and 40 SW. Or you can choose to be held hostage by those who made better choices.

[Altjaeger]

SKB. I think that is called planning for contigencies. In this case the plan and supplies were in place when the need arose. Now you can sit back until calm returns. I don't handload, but do probably have 5-10 years worth of ammo on hand for all my firearms. I guess if I run out of ammo for the 7x57 then I will need to "get by with" the 8x57, .30-06, .30-30 or...the .308! Theres enough for my lifetime and then some for hunting purposes.

Of course if a paramilitary need arose I guess I would have to make do with my hunting arms...until I could take an AK or AR from the corpse of one of the "other" guys. Then again those "deer rifles" would make pretty decent "sniper rifles". Obviously I am not worried as I have not prepared for a military need except coincidently.

I would say you planned well and wisely with it paying off. :)

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I was in the gun shop that I do business with the other day and asked about Small Pistol primers. They had about 5 - 100ct boxes on the shelf. I normally use CCI and they were $4/box. The guy asked if I ever used Remington. I told him that I might be using whatever I could get before long. He goes in the back and comes back with a brick of Remington Small Pistol Primers, the first I had seen in a while. He wanted $39 for it and I took the deal and asked if there were any more. He said he had another brick of Federal. I told him that If he would sell it, I would buy it. He would, and I did. I left the 5 boxes on the shelf. They were gone today when I went in. He had about 5 or 6 boxes of shotgun primers and that was it. Today I asked about Small Rifle primers and he told me that he would have some in later in the week but he didn't know when. He did allow that I probably wouldn't like the price. I asked If it was going to be around $75 and he said, "Likely". I'm going to stop "hoarding" at $39/1000 and maybe build a flintlock when they are regular price of $75/1000. Wolf brand 223 and 7.62x39 was $10 a box. A buddy of mine bought a case of 223 the other day for $465. He didn't tell his wife. Steel case Wolf Brand HP.

We may all have to start hunting with a CrossBow before this is over with. At least no one gets excited or over protective about anything as fat as that's concerned.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

He did allow that I probably wouldn't like the price. I asked If it was going to be around $75 and he said, "Likely". I'm going to stop "hoarding" at $39/1000 and maybe build a flintlock when they are regular price of $75/1000.

We may all have to start hunting with a CrossBow before this is over with. At least no one gets excited or over protective about anything as fat as that's concerned.

Alan

Concerning tht first paragraph I am reminded of the man who was going to quit smoking when the price reached 50 cents a pack. :D

On the second I guess you slept through a few threads around here! :rolleyes:

The shortage will likely be over soon, but prices maybe slower to fall.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Paul, I was out and about this evening and missed a bunch of posts I guess. I've been hearing for some weeks now that things should start leveling off soon from a primer/powder standpoint. It's one thing to have a # of 4895 and a box or two of primers left IF all you have to do is go down and buy some more. It's another to load up 100 rounds, use up the bulk of the powder and half the primers with the prospect of having none to be able to be bought. I was reading on another site that a gunshop owner sold 85,000 primers as fast as he could get them out of the shipping cartons.

Can you see the look on Obama's face if he got wind that Gun owners and Reloaders wanted a law to limit sales of components.

My understanding about primer manufacturing is that it is one of those things that doesn't go faster just because you turn the crank faster. There is some really delicate stuff that has to be handled very carefully otherwise it gets really hot. They'll keep making them as fast as they can and at some point they'll be $9/1000 again.

I loaded some 38 S&W and some 38 spl the other day with primer that I know had to be 25 - 30 years old they went "pop" and made holes in the coke can. I'll use them up first and save the newer ones for 25 years from now.

Alan

[Altjaeger]

Many of us would accept and even encourage daily limits by stores so they can spread the wealth among their customers. I don't there there will be any backing for it to be mandated in law except a fevered few. I think such a law would just increase panic and daily purchases to build stock.

[30-338]

The reloaders are at the bottom of the profit chain for manufactor and it doesn't bother me someone buys up primers and sells for a profit it happens.

Few years ago was having a hard time finding good horse hay prices doubled then speculator came in price tripled. Most didn't have the storage or money to buy truck-trailer load so you pay.

I've always buy most of my reloading supplies from out of state or some dealers at the gun show so I really didn't support the locals when SW came to town they had some good prices. This primer shortage started latter part of 2006 I learned from the last one and I left Vietnam 1965 about 66/67 had a hard time finding 308/243 brass.

Reloading a hobby for most of us some times may cost alittle more to feed it. I was at Sierra first part of April they sell seconds by the lb picked up 50lbs

[southtexas]

If I recall Eco 101, putting more limits on the supply of a product is not an effective way of reducing the price.

[GMWW]

With all this talk, I think I might visit my local gun store to see if they have anything I'm low on. Black powder seems to be scarce for the past couple of years. I get a pound or two when I come across them.

[Bayrat]

Having been a gun club treasurer for many years, I know that another backlash to these high reloading component prices is that it will hurt many small gun clubs.

Around here, all but one club I know of make thier 'main' money with shotgun shooting sports, not just dues. With the price of shot and reloading components added to the high cost of gas, not many are turning out for the weekly and monthly shoots that are the main support of these type clubs.

I'm worried that some of these clubs will be lost for back taxes.

Bayrat.

[Gil]

Remember the primer shortage in the early 1990s? I got caught short and things eventually got back to normal. Having an adequate stock of anything on hand is not hoarding, it is prudent and wise. Folks do not fear a ban on components, but they do fear a 500 percent tax increase by the government. Look at the recent tobacco tax increases and one realizes it could easily happen to reloading components.

The gun shops I visit have shotgun ammo and components and some handgun and rifle components. They limit buyers to 500 primers at a time. Handgun ammo and .22 ammo are hard to find.

This situation will pass and I am pleased that many shooters, hunters and reloaders are well-stocked. All the best...
Gil

[Badger]

Gil,

I ensured I had an adequate stash of components the week I retired in 1996 and have kept my inventories up. I cast all my handgun bullets from free wheelweights I get at the local tire shop. I also cast many rifle bullets.

My local gunshop has plenty of powder, bullets and primers on the shelf. I do not need to buy anything and am waiting for the supply to increase and prices to come down.

Badger

[Badger]

Gil,

I went to my local shop today and saw 10 strangers from out of town buying stuff off the shelves in a frenzy. ALL small pistol and small rifle primers are GONE. I got my pound of IMR4831 and a tray of 100 CCI magnum rifle primers for the .264.

I saw a humurous photo of our Prez that said beneath the picture, "Firearms salesman of the year." They should have added "components as well."

Badger

[Gil]

This week I visited two local gun shops. Most of the shelves were empty. I did manage to get a pound of IMR4198 and IMR4350. I found 200 Winchester .270 Power Point bullets on sale. The last shop had pistol ammo in .380 ACP, 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. So it depends on what is available. My suggestion is buy it if you find it and need it. All the best...
Gil

[Badger]

Gil,

Does this mean I cannot put my May 2009 $250.00 Stimulus check into reloading components? LOL.

Badger

[SeniorCoot]

My reloader supplier told me a guy came to his place looking for primers a couple of weeks ago- he was a HOARDER-- had 150,000 or so Lge rifle primers in his truck-- my guy would not sell him any-- He did save 500 sm rifle primers for me-- i do have enough to reload after this summers shoots but not for the next 15 yrs-- these yahoos are as much of the problem as Congress.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Sometimes I wonder (with my "conspiracy theory" mind) just who is buying THAT many primers. Someone would have to have access to lots of money and the time to go around buying them all up. Where are they storing them. 150K primers in someone's truck might be a bit entertaining if they ever started cooking off.

I had about 200 corrosive primers salvaged from LC M1 brass and gave the boys a little demonstration of what they do and why I stop everything in the reloading room UNTIL I find a dropped primer. I had them in a medicine bottle and tossed them on the fire at camp one night (of course I had everyone back out of the way). It was quite a show when the plastic melted and the primers started popping. It was over pretty quick though. Wish I'd saved those corrosive primers, might need them.

Alan

[30-338]

I wonder if anyone has read their HO insurance policy or checked with local Fire Dept?

[snake river rufus]

Sometimes I wonder (with my "conspiracy theory" mind) just who is buying THAT many primers. Someone would have to have access to lots of money and the time to go around buying them all up. Where are they storing them. 150K primers in someone's truck might be a bit entertaining if they ever started cooking off.

I had about 200 corrosive primers salvaged from LC M1 brass and gave the boys a little demonstration of what they do and why I stop everything in the reloading room UNTIL I find a dropped primer. I had them in a medicine bottle and tossed them on the fire at camp one night (of course I had everyone back out of the way). It was quite a show when the plastic melted and the primers started popping. It was over pretty quick though. Wish I'd saved those corrosive primers, might need them.

Alan

Two points,,
I shoot a lot of different games and buy components in volume. Since I am the one using them (they are not for resale), I am the only person who gets to decide how many I "need". For the record my last primer order was an even 100,000.They have lasted several years and while it was a big purchase my shooting costs are much less than the guys buying components at todays prices.
Second, someday you guys that toss corrosive primers away need to explain to me just what makes them so bad. Yes you do have to clean with water and do so quickly, but so what? People still shoot black powder and think that is fun so why worry about mildly corrosive primers?

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Well, I probably have 1000 more. They are still installed in the LC Brass and there they'll stay. I got rid of the other ones because I didn't think I would ever have use for them being as that I live in the USA, land of the free, home of the brave and all. I figured that I would just be able to buy $9/K primers forever.

Alan

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

There are folks who shoot a lot. They buy a lot of components. They buy them in bulk and in advance of when they need them. Sam's Club is built on that concept. I'm not sure but those individuals who buy 100K primers at a time are probably in the vast minority of re-loaders. I cannot see why there is still such a problem with keeping them on the shelves. I would certainly not want to see any of the manufacturers sacrifice quality control for the sake of putting more on the market. Unfortunately powder is in the same fix. Is the scare that big, is the hoarding that prevalent or is something else causing this problem. This is really too long. Would anyone put it past Dear Leader to divert $$$$ and instruct his henchmen to go out and buy up all the components they can to keep it off the shelves and out of the supply and demand cycle until the demand falls off and the manufacturers who have sunk money into gearing up production of the simplest, smallest and most inexpensive component of re-loading then find themselves without a market? Or am I just thinking too much.

Alan

[snake river rufus]

There are folks who shoot a lot. They buy a lot of components. They buy them in bulk and in advance of when they need them. Sam's Club is built on that concept. I'm not sure but those individuals who buy 100K primers at a time are probably in the vast minority of re-loaders. I cannot see why there is still such a problem with keeping them on the shelves. I would certainly not want to see any of the manufacturers sacrifice quality control for the sake of putting more on the market. Unfortunately powder is in the same fix. Is the scare that big, is the hoarding that prevalent or is something else causing this problem. This is really too long. Would anyone put it past Dear Leader to divert $$$$ and instruct his henchmen to go out and buy up all the components they can to keep it off the shelves and out of the supply and demand cycle until the demand falls off and the manufacturers who have sunk money into gearing up production of the simplest, smallest and most inexpensive component of re-loading then find themselves without a market? Or am I just thinking too much.

Alan
You are just thinking too much, unlike obama supporters.;)
I don't believe you will see quality drop off, there is too much to lose for a manufacturer to pull that type of stunt.
This situation is a glitch and other than grumble about it all we can do is ride it out.

[Semper Fi]

Seems to me that the biggest "hoarder" of loading components are the manufacturers of military contracts. Since our involvment in the ME, these items are increasingly in short supply. Go into Wally world and see how much ammo is on their shelves, esp. military calibers. The shop where I do my business advises that their suppliers tell them that they have trouble getting items from the manufacturers due to gov't. buy-ups. Just have to wait for an end to the hostilities. Jim