m14a1 or m1 grand

[rimrock]

which fire arm design do you think is more versatile and which is less likely to break parts as a long term survival rifle
lets assume your going to buy a rifle and 4000 cartridges, and some basic spare parts and reloading components

both the M14 and M1 GRAND have good reputations for durability among my friends, but whats your opinion, now Im not so much concerned with the rate of fire as Im concerned with accuracy and durability

[Badger]

rimrock,

I am not familiar with a "m14a1", what is it? I assume the "m1 grand" is a reference to the M1 Garand. I have had three Match M14 Rifles and many more M1 Garands in my shooting career; both are battle proven and reliable arms; either will serve you well.

The civilian version of the M14 is the M1A in caliber .308. It is not an M14, but well made as I understand. Either the M1A or M1 Garand will serve you well as long as you properly clean and lube the rifles. Make sure your 4,000 cartridges are Non-Corrosive and Mil Spec. For spare parts, I suggest firing pins, extractors and ejectors and springs. A recoil spring may also come in handy.

The M1A uses a 20-round box magazine, so get 6, or more. The Garand uses an 8-round en bloc clip, so get 50 and you should be set for whatever you deem a survival situation.

Badger

[Gil Martin]

I would check out the used gun racks in various gun shops to see what is available. Both the M1 Garand and the MiA show up from time to time. Prices have been going up on both of these rifles so be prepared for sticker shock. Good luck in your quest. All the best...
Gil

[bill m]

I just read 'Hell, I Was There!' by Elmer Kieth. I think that is a "Must Read" for everyone.
He didn't have much to say good about the M1 Garrand. Rear sight comming loose, accuracy, and some other things. Don't know if they had Lock-Tite back then.
The M1A has a really long run as a competition gun. I don't know if that matters for what you're talking about. The Garrand certainly was a workhorse.
I'm thinking that the M1A is lighter? Maybe not enough to matter. 4000 rounds of amm certainly isn't light.
Im thinking that older guns might be at a disadvantage in regard to breakdowns. Metal fatigue. maybe not. You can get New M1A's.
I thought about My Swede. But the age concerns me. So I think simple and light.
I'd pick an M1A out of those two choices. But niether would be my first choice.

[Badger]

bill m,

What would be your first choice?

Badger

[bill m]

Hey Badger,
I would probably take one of my single shots. I'm not sure but my choice might be a 22 mag or LR. My 22-250 would take any game I would need. I like my H&R Handi Rifles for that purpose. They're light, small, very simple, and extremely accurate.
I guess it depends on how we define survival. My definition is bugging out. No longer stationary. Needing to be stealth and away from what civilization might be left. Finding a Safe Place.
If you have to move, a 10 Lb. gun and alot of ammo sucks.
A handgun would be anything that is light both in gun and ammo.
I think the focus of survival has to be on game; not as much on people. The person who avoids people wil be sucessful. Not the person who prepares for shoot-outs.
I think that's a long-form answer.

[Badger]

bill m,

You make a lot of sense. I often advise folks to get a good .22 caliber rifle and handgun and 4 bricks of hollow points. I have a few .22 semi-auto rifles and handguns. I love my single shot Rolling Blocks and Trapdoors, but for multiple assailants, one needs a bolt gun or semi to deal with that threat.

Let's hope this scenario remains a mental configuration of "What If?"

Badger

[swamp]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_grand

[bill m]

I absolutely agree with hoping for no "What If?"
The last thing that I think about is assault by multiple assailants. I think that you're probably already in mortal trouble if you end up in that condition. That's why I think about how to remain out of sight and unnoticed. If you have to carry enough gun and ammo to potentially survive multiple assailants, you're probably going to also have more trouble keeping on the move and remaining silent. Heavy loads usually mean you move with more noise, less speed, and less distance. I would hate to have all of that gear and, then, decide for survival, that I have to dump it. Then what do I have.
A 22LR or magnum in the right hands will certainly put some distance between you and whoever threatens. An M1 Garrand or M1A will be heard for miles. There goes your seclusion.
Everybody feels differently about this. I read about downed pilots and ground forces that had to make their way out of enemy territory. They usually don't shoot their way out. Once the shooting started, it was usually only a matter of time before they were captured.
Sorry, I kind of took this off-topic.
I think the M1A is a better choice than a Garrand for sure.

[kjjm4]

It depends entirely on the situation. If I'm surviving by forting up in my house with a supply of food and water, I'd want an AR platform rifle in .223 with a good optical sight.

If I'm running off into the woods and I have to carry all 4000 rounds of ammo with me, there's no question about it, I'd use a .22 LR (probably a ruger 10/22)

[bill m]

kjjm4,
All of the senarios that I have watched and/or listened to tell me that forting up in your house is only going to be temporary. If things go so bad that civil order can't be restored, your plan while forted up would be to plan your escape.
I think a 10/22 would do very well. If you had about 4 to 6 bricks of ammo, you probably wouldn't run out in your life-time.
So now that the 10/22 is established as a good choice, what would it be; m14a1 or m1 grand? After all, that was the question before I took this off-topic. Sorry! :dontknow:

[yoteshooter]

SHTF or bugout gear? Gimme a fricken break. Hunting from sun up to sun down on a weekend is one thing. "Living" in the wild while "hostiles" could be lurking is completely diffrent. Now there are some country boys who could do it in a non hostile environment, but in a SHTF scenario I doubt the average Joe can do it. I consider most people who ask these assinine questions to be of the same ilk as mall ninjas, TV MMA fighters, and "secret, no official records" navy seals. They ask questions obviously showing their expertise, about such items as m14a1 or m1 grands. Really??!!!!! 4000 rounds of ammo? If the SHTF do you really think you can just load all that up in the mini van an tool down the highway. Oh but wait, I forgot, some "survivalist ninjas" already have secret hiding spots in timbucktoo. Cool, you have half a cheaper than dirt warehouse cached, but again there is a problem. If you can walk there, its probably not secluded enough, and the boogie-zombies are just gonna let you ride your combat vespa there?

My idea of survival is a solid plan of good locks, a good dog, batteries and radios, 10-14 days of canned goods and non perishables, propane for a month, prescriptions for a month, squad corpsman size first aid kit, list of phone numbers/emails/addresses, recent pictures of loved ones in case of search, and enough ammo to keep mall ninjas, no record top secret navy seals, and other assorted unwanteds at bay until order is restored. If its truly armageddon then I have a few weeks to plan and conspire to make an escape. I have no illusions about the governments ability to find an kill lil ole me if the end of the world is government sanctioned.

Now go remove every single military surplus catalog an flier from the rack by your crapper and take a realistic look at what is conceivable and plannable. In Iowa, my concerns mostly revolve around weather disasters and looting/martial law.

[Badger]

yoteshooter,

Your NARROW mindset probably fits well in your mid-America scenario. GO for it! What is IOWA known for???? The majority of Americans reside elsewhere, Duh! In RURAL PA, there are farm folks who can, and did, reside here in times of great want. We are farm oriented with many good dogs. PA fields nearly a million rifle-armed deer hunters per year. I suspect Iowa does not permit rifle deer hunters, so there you got a shortfall when it comes to halting "Bad Guys.", Eh, wot? PA is a nation of Riflemen since 1776. Bring it on! If Iowa does NOT allow Rifle deer hunters, then what can anyone say? PA can, and has, kept the bad Mopes away WITH Rifles! We will do so again, 10-4?

Badger

[yoteshooter]

what does deer hunting have to do with combat arms? Other than possibly some marksmanship and basic fieldcraft, not much. Last I checked deer did not shoot back. You really should research before you post as Iowa does have a rifle season(not that matters in the argument about armageddon)for deer(doe only). We also rifle hunt coyotes and most of our deer are killed with shotgun slugs while running. Again dont see the correlation between deer an zombies. Rifleman in 1776 have nothing to do with the current post unless you believe in reincarnation. If you want to debate the points I made logically, then offer solutions to the points I made. To detract from my post based on deer hunting regulations and 1700's history is not becoming of debate I have seen from you before. As for me, many here have known me since 1998 or so. I too wore a badge and way back when swore an oath at a mepps office. Not everybody from Iowa has stayed in Iowa. Lets start with how to schlep 4k of ammo around during armageddon.

[Altjaeger]

Yote, don't worry. You are not alone. Badger often attacks other posters with an air of superiority, invented past lives and few facts; or even self-created facts that bear little resemblence to reality.:biggrin:

[yoteshooter]

Regardless of where you stand in America, doesnt the majority of the rest of the country live somewhere else?