Baiting deer

[ncboman]

as in huntin over a cornpile.

How do you feel about it?

ncboman

[AK-49]

as you know baiting is illegal in many states and legal in some. Shooting deer over bait is like shooting fish in a bowl just pick the one you want and shoot. It doesn't take a lot of hunting expertise to do that.

[Greywolf]

It is illeagle here.
But I can see where it has it's merrits.
Being able to pick and choose, is sound management of the local heard, or one source of it anyway.
I can see nothing wrong with it, if it is not used to any imoral advantage.
MTC

[LampLighter]

That is legal here, EXCEPT on public land. To be honest, 90% of LA & MS residents who hunt , do it. I am in the 10% most of the time.

Many here do not know any other way to hunt deer. Box stands, corn feeders, and food plots are the norm here. What do I think ??

You have heard me speak before of current trends of obiesity, poor food eating habits, and taking shortcuts in life. Without insult, because I too had several box stands and plots in the past, I think most of these fellows just want some meat and want to be able to show up at work Monday after Thanksgiving with "killing" stories. You have heard me speak before also, about the need to "fit in" and do things that "the group" does. By now you should start to see where all of this fits together. Look at it from a perspective of " what is on the hunter's mind" why does he do what he does?

Me, I got bored with all that. I like to go in the woods, deciefer the sign, and come up with a plan and set up. Move as the sign moves. Figure out what the deer is thinking. etc.

However, let me say that there is a product on the market now that will draw deer like a powerful magnet guaranteed ;) . It works best in a wooded enviroment ( in the woods). It is C,mere deer. This stuff WILL bring in the meat deer.

[Sidekick]

It's illegal here but I don't see a whole lot of difference between it and hanging a stand next to an apple tree or a hole in the fence next to an alfalfa field. Some people get all excited about being "one" with the wild and I used to be that way but anymore deer hunting is more like grocery shopping and the quicker I get em' on the ground the better. There are so many deer and so much habitat around here I don't think it would work anyway.

[LampLighter]

:D:D:D

http://www.cmeredeer.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4



This stuff works big time. The locals use it around here.

[dave-t.]

I think it would be better if it was not allowed the majority of the time. When everyone is doing it, there is too much available feed to draw deer like you want, and inn places where few people do it, it would be a very big unnatural draw to the animals.

I went on a hog hunt in TX where the feeder went off, 5 min later deer were there, and ate for 10 minutes, and left. That was the typical morning and evening hunts. Not very exciting, and imo, not good for herd capacity and possible desease transmission.

I think it can be easy for a hunter to cut himself off at the knees and rely too much on bait, and forget some of his scouting and tracking skills.

Still there are aplications where it could bee used successfully and with no harm.

I have no problems with bear or hog baiting.

[Twanger]

Baiting is legal in Maryland, and I recently saw the results of a poll of 500+ hunters on Marylandwhitetail.com and more than 80% bait.

I also bait, but do so only for deer removal purposes.

I much prefer to hunt without bait in the big woods with a bow or muzzleloader in hand, but that's only about 10% of my hunting.

[GF.]

There was a good piece on this in a recent F&S... Talks about spreading diseases, 'competitiveness' between huners on adjacent properties, non-hunting public's perception of it as shooting fish in a barrel & so on & so on... All of those are good reasons to ban it, IMO...

But beyond that, what is Hunting anyway?

Ask me, I'll tell ya that Hunting means that You go out and Find the Critter. NOT Critter Comes to You because you've altered the environment specifically to manipulate the animal's behavior.

Agriculture is a fact of life. But a crop field and a food plot are two different animals entirely--a farmer would go broke in a hurry trying to work such teeny-tiny little bits of land as a food plot, so the access/egress routes are a lot more predictable, and most food plots are sized to suit a 200-yard cartridge with no need for holdover or range estimation--so even if you're not clever enough to get a line on all the ins and outs of the thing, you're still looking at a See the Deer, Shoot the deer, Drag the Deer situation.

BFD.

I feel enough like a cheater just setting up in a killer funnel that I know the deer are going to be using, because it's really just a matter of time 'til something wanders by within range :(


I guess what makes hunting interesting and gratifying to me is figuring out the puzzle and getting in under the radar; the more active I am, the happier I am. But the more I sit and let them come to me, the more like grocery shopping it beomes....

[swamp]

http://dnr.wi.gov/news/DNRNews_article_Lookup.asp?id=893

[StringJumper]

I find myself in a catch-22 regarding baiting. Me? No, I never intend to bait. As someone else stated you are artificially altering the natural movement of deer. And if you don't think there is any difference in bowhunting over a pile of corn exactly 21 yards from your blind, and a 6 acre foodplot, then you have your head in the sand. Sorry to be so blunt but you can sit on a food plot for days and see dozens of deer and never be offered a shot.

But...I am really, really tired of arguing about this so I have basically waved the white flag. And there lies my problem.

If baiting is legalized then most people will do it. So now you have a big pile of yellow corn next to your stand. I have a stand over natural food sources 400 yards away. Now who is going to be more likely to see deer?

To paraphrase an old saying "your right to bait ends where it alters my hunting experience".

Once I was invited to a dove hunt. The landowner spent a lot of time and money on a millet field and baled the hay a few weeks before dove season. His field was completely legal and had a ton of birds on it up until a week before the season opened.

I went hunting on opening day and saw almost no birds. But we could hear some people blasting away about a mile from our field. Suddenly the shooting ceased like flipping off a light.

Later that afternoon the game warden came to our field to check licenses. We mentioned the sudden disappearance of doves and he laughed. He pointed and said there is a field right over there that is loaded with birds. We busted some guys for hunting over bait piles. They had brought in truckloads of wheat, millet, sorghum and sunflower seeds. So that explained where all the birds went.

Even worse, since no one was now hunting the field the birds were flying in and staying right there since no one was there to keep them stirred up. :mad:

So I am fine with baiting as long as it's not close enough to me to pull the game away from me.

[Hink]

I'll stick to the white oaks and lets the guy with the feeder sit his stand. There are going to be years where that guy with the feeder isn't going to do squat and years he's gonna do so so and then years where he is the main attraction. I reckon the same can be said about the white oaks and how the mast crop does that year.

When you deny feeding then in my opinion you have a greater chance of hurting the little guy that has scraped together enough dollars to buy a few timbered over acres and it might be years before there are acorns or in enough abundance to hold deer. With a feeder he can turn his property from a piece of land deer travel through to a piece of land that holds some deer. Of course the guy can and probably should plant food plots and such too and even have a small pond built.

I know a lot of guys that don't have all that many acres and what they have isn't terribly great whitetail habitat but they can and do work it so they kill a buck on their own place in rifle season or bow season. More power to them as far as I'm concerned if that is how they want their hunting or hunting experience to be. I'm sort of a real staunch supporter of allowing a landowner to do whatever he wants with his own property. In fact if he's in his ladder overlooking his directional set to go off twice a day feeder then he might not have an issue with me hunting on another part of his farm.

As long as you aren't creating something that looks like a feed lot in spring where everything is either manure or mud or leaving corn in piles to spoil and rot then have at it.

We have CWD in one area and its because we had a deer farmer with a feed lot attitude and he brought in some bad stock. Now there is nothing to do but kill and monitor and hope it doesn't spread.

By the way, I feed nearly year round out back of my house and I have one of the finest crops of squirrels you'll ever find on five acres of woods. I also have a few deer that show up after dark. I don't shoot these animals but I do enjoy seeing them.

[pepaw]

To each his own. As long as the legal limit is not exceeded.

They are great for feeding squirrels, raccoons and pigs.:D



pepaw

[GF.]

I'm sort of a real staunch supporter of allowing a landowner to do whatever he wants with his own property.

That would hold true if his actions affected only his land, but they don't. Feeding on a piece of private property affects the commonly-held resource--aka the deer--that are hunted by all.

What about when a private landowner feeds the wildlife and creates not only a 'supermarket' hunting experience for himself, but a de facto wildlife refuge that pulls in animals from the surrounding public land?

Then he's screwing over all of the guys who can't (or won't) pay to play.... and that's crap.

[dave-t.]

I found myself in a quandry last year over a possible baiting violation. I have apple trees in the yard. When they drop, its terrible, bugs, rot, my toddler, etc., bad news dealing with the unwanted apples. MO baiting laws are any area within 300yds of bait is considered baited, and off limits. If I move the apples, most of my property (440yds deep) is baited, along with the neighbors place, the other neighbor, and the guy across the road.

I dumped the apples close behind the barn last year, just to get them away from the toddler, and yes, coons and deer found them. I still hunted the stands that I already had in place, but if I was inspected, I'd have been guilty.

I would have been just as guilty though if I had dumped them in the road ditch. :confused::o

It was when the pile started disapearing that I started thinking how close to the line, or over the line, that I was without intending to break the rules or bait game. But, if I would have left them in the yard, and shot a deer coming to them, I'd be 100% legal.:confused:

[ncboman]

My game is at it's best where the deer aren't baited.

ncboman

[Twanger]

I found myself in a quandry last year over a possible baiting violation. I have apple trees in the yard. When they drop, its terrible, bugs, rot, my toddler, etc., bad news dealing with the unwanted apples. MO baiting laws are any area within 300yds of bait is considered baited, and off limits. If I move the apples, most of my property (440yds deep) is baited, along with the neighbors place, the other neighbor, and the guy across the road.

I dumped the apples close behind the barn last year, just to get them away from the toddler, and yes, coons and deer found them. I still hunted the stands that I already had in place, but if I was inspected, I'd have been guilty.

I would have been just as guilty though if I had dumped them in the road ditch. :confused::o

It was when the pile started disapearing that I started thinking how close to the line, or over the line, that I was without intending to break the rules or bait game. But, if I would have left them in the yard, and shot a deer coming to them, I'd be 100% legal.:confused:

In these forums I read about how a guy bought some land in New England to hunt, Maine I think, and some locals decided to screw him over and threw some bait piles down close to where he hunted, but not within sight, and then they tipped off the local warden. The guy lost his right to hunt.

That's the trouble with baiting laws... like in your case, they are so indiscriminate and it's hard to manage. Also - I don't see a lot of difference between a bait pile and a freshly cut corn field, or some other "food plot" that happens to attract deer.

[dave-t.]

You can bet I know where the persimon trees are on my property. I also have plans to plant a couple crabapple trees up by a small pond.

It can be a very fine line.

[Bushman]

Wisconsin has created a monster by legalizing baiting here. People have forgotten how to hunt. The deer have become much more nocturnal because they can eat at a bait pile in 5 minutes and chew their food all the next day in security cover because they have a 4 chambered stomach. Lots of the violations are baiting related. It has created such a cottage industry for apples and corn that anyone with a store front up north is selling bait. It has artificially kept increased deer numbers on property that will not sustain that size herd through a hard winter and everyone stops baiting after the deer season. It got to be who could out bait who and if one guy was doing it, everyone thought that they had to do it to compete. People were setting up on or near other people's bait and shooting "the baiter's deer" and hunting ethics have gone in the tank. WI. got their thing in a wringer with the CWD outbreak and baiting spreads disease. It drew deer across highways to get to feeding stations and car kills went way up.

I have hunted an area that was unbated because it was too hard to get back there with bait because of the steep terrain and natural features like a major river. The deer were walking around at 3:00 in the afternoon feeding instead of laying low in a thicket with a belly full of bait. Why can't people realize that and put the hunt back into hunting? It disgusts me to see a trailer with a 4-wheeler with a box on the back and hundreds of pounds of bait going north every fall weekend.

[GF.]

Also - I don't see a lot of difference between a bait pile and a freshly cut corn field, or some other "food plot" that happens to attract deer.


Surely you jest, Walt..... If you sit close by a bait pile, no deer can get so much as a mouthful of it without being in bow range. You stand in the middle of any corn field worthy of the name, and you'd need flight-shooting bow to get an arrow to drop into the woods along the edges...

The difference between a bait pile and a crop field is the same as the difference between 'hunting' inside a 1-acre enclosure vs. a state forest.

On food plots, I'm not gonna argue with you--those exist solely for the purpose of increasing the size of the herd and altering the deer traffic through an area.

[dave-t.]

I agree with that, here a common cornfield is 40+acres, a big cornfield may be a mile or more long.

[Sabre]

Wow, a topic on which I'm in complete agreement with GF !:eek: Never thought I'd see the day.:D

[Twanger]

Surely you jest, Walt..... If you sit close by a bait pile, no deer can get so much as a mouthful of it without being in bow range. You stand in the middle of any corn field worthy of the name, and you'd need flight-shooting bow to get an arrow to drop into the woods along the edges...

The difference between a bait pile and a crop field is the same as the difference between 'hunting' inside a 1-acre enclosure vs. a state forest.

On food plots, I'm not gonna argue with you--those exist solely for the purpose of increasing the size of the herd and altering the deer traffic through an area.

Cover the well-used trails close to the corn field that lead to bedding areas and the shooting opportunities will be there with a bow. Also, even though this subject is on the archery forum I was really thinking about hunting with a gun where you can pretty easily cover an entire 50 acre field. I will agree with you that shooting deer with bow is harder than with a gun! :D

[GF.]

But you see the difference - if you know what you're doing, you can find the right spot in the woods where you set up your stand and a deer will walk right under you just like clockwork.

But you've got to know what you're doing, or you could be sitting in your tree for days or weeks and see jack-diddly.

And on the other hand.... If you have not the first freaking clue what you are doing, you can set out a bait pile just about anywhere in the woods, and the deer will go well out of their natural traffic patterns to get to it.

It's the question of you finding them when they don't naturally want to be found, vs. them doing something unnatural to find you.

One is Hunting. One is Not.

[dave-t.]

The other side of the hunting cornfields is that where I am, in good farm country, 50-90% of the land can be in corn or beans. Lots and lots of options for feed. If one field gets pressure, he deer can move 1/2 mile up the same field, or go to any of the other fields around.


Not so many option for bedding though.;)

In north MO farm country, bedding areas can be seen from a good distance. It's everywhere the corn ain't.

[ncboman]

Where baiting is legal, a good size majority of hunters want it to stay legal. :confused:

ncboman

[GF.]

Plenty of bad ideas have had popular support over the years. Hell, if we brought it to a vote as to whether the US should remain a republic or switch over to a mobocracy, the mobocracy would probably win....:eek:

Some would say we've already lost that one...

[ncboman]

Hell, if we brought it to a vote as to whether the US should remain a republic or switch over to a mobocracy, the mobocracy would probably win....


No doubt. Here's a hint of proof. Read the following story and then read the comments.

Driving Checkpoint (http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/44262487.html#comments)

The majority support the checkpoints even though they are the greatest waste of police resources since donuts. They haven't figured out cell phones yet. When a checkpoint goes up, every bar for 30 miles knows about it and all the drunks know the roads are clear cause all the cops are at the checkpoint. Notice they nabbed one dui. :cool:

wunder who Mortie is? :D

I hunted here in NC before baiting became legal and the mature deer have become much more nocturnal imo. Fortunately, the price of fuel and corn is putting the brakes to a lot of it. ;)

ncboman

[Smokey]

Growing up in PA, baiting was illegal. I have hunted and lived in several states where it is legal. In Texas on a couple ranches I saw some great deer and in Canada got to see black bear up close.

It did not matter to me at that time one way or the other on baiting. I shot some deer in Texas, I didn't do the 30 yard shooting in Canada but instead elected to photograph the bear.

I prefer to hunt without baiting as I prefer to hunt deer without the use of dogs.

[ncboman]

Where have you hunted that dogs were used?

ncboman

[Smokey]

About 25 years ago I lived in Fredericksburg, VA. Everything east of the Blue Ridge mountains at that time was shotgun only. It was also further restricted to buckshot only in some places.

At that time there were many places where people could use dogs to drive deer. I think it was only permitted east of the Blue Ridge. As I understand there were a lot of areas south of Fredericksberg where a lot of dirt roads would crisscross the forests. They would release dogs in these quadrangles and post hunters around the edges as the dogs drove the deer out.

Dogs are still permitted to be used but on a more limited basis at this time. I was invited to hunt with people using dogs several times but always declined. I did most of my deer hunting on Quantico Marine Base and Fort A. P. Hill and both had very good deer populations.

In that period you could hunt deer with a rifle west of the Blue Ridge Mts. I believe that is currently being considered to be changed.

[ncboman]

My first years of deer hunting were in a dog hunting setting of the old school. I had the most unique and interesting upbringing a country boy from North Carolina could ever ask for.

My dad was a plain quail hunter. He loved the birds and his dogs and never got into deer hunting until I came along and wanted to do it. Doing things for me I never fully realised until he was gone, my ol man made it possible for me to hunt at will almost everywhere in several counties in those years. :)

In 1964 the 'man talk' among 13yr olds in school was deer hunting. Mattered not than none of us had killed one, what mattered was going. And ...

to be continued ...
good night. :D

ncboman

[Greywolf]

going. And ...

to be continued ...
good night.

ncboman


NC just got yelled at or purred to:D

[DaveHawk]

In Louisa county Va. it's buck shot and dogs with permission, dogs need no permission but owners of the dogs do. More and more areas arounf the farm I hunt are dis allowing the dog hunters which is nice. But when I hear the dogs out running I quickly change my stand location because I know where the deer head to when the deer here the dogs.

[LampLighter]

My first years of deer hunting were in a dog hunting setting of the old school. I had the most unique and interesting upbringing a country boy from North Carolina could ever ask for.




Give us a transcript of a typical CB Radio conversation when the dogs are running hot & heavy.

[ncboman]

There were no CB radios used deer hunting when I grew up. Hunters were assigned posts and frowned upon if they moved.

One of my granddads didn't drive so hunting with him was being dropped off at some spot for the day. He'd stay right there all day. ... and he killed the biggest buck that club ever killed.

My other grandad had no patience at all. He was constantly riding down to the next spot or all around to 'visit'. He'd leave a crossing with the dogs on the way. :D

Here's the unique part. The section of the county where I actually lived was and still is illegal to run deer with dogs. Still hunting only. This gave me a completely different hunting perspective than most country boys from the south. I had the best of all worlds, so to speak. :D

ncboman

[TJF]

Baiting is legal here except on Public ground. The majority of bowhunters in my area bait. With the few trees and none of them being mast bearing... it is a good way of drawing deer into the few trees so you can tree stand hunt. They are almost always successful with does and younger bucks. Even the idiot bowhunters do quite will and we have some real slobs in the area.

A few big bucks die every year from baiting in my area. There's one guy who has taken two 140's and two 160's class bucks in the last 4 years baiting. The bow hunters are few enough and spread out enough where the deer don't wise up as they would in states/areas of heavy baiting making most deer nocturnal and not visiting their piles until after dark. Our cold, snowy winters makes baiting even more effective.

I don't bait. Just not my thing and never cared to do it. I don't have a problem with people who do bait. Each their own.

Tim

[happycamper]

But i plan on baiting my private property in conjuction with a trail cam to see whats on the land.In ALA where i hunt its legal as long as the pile is gone 10 days before the season begins.I've had discussions with folks over this and i honestly have come to the conclusion that as long as i am....1.legal,and 2 legal... then i am going to do it.Plus it is a food supplement.Seems like everybody else is.I dont want to argue because there are alot of folks on this site who know more about deer hunting than i ever will.Just giving you an example of what a person getting into the "game" is dealing with.

[DaveHawk]

I have about 2 dozen back yards to hunt if I were to bait them all I'd go broke. I had to find a solution. I found that just putting out a coffee can full 2 nights before or the night before the shoot and then a half can the afternoon of the shoot the deer will come, they can smell the corn from a long way off. The I will only shoot that spot one a week.
Baiting works good for maintenance.