Topic for discussion

[ncboman]

What do you think about this?

Ken Barr Trophy Room (https://acrobat.com/#il=1&d=z-eTn2MQfJ6L1dllibYO4w)

( ... it takes a little time to load. Not much, but a little,)

[Altjaeger]

I am afraid I would become a bit jaded. A nice display for a museum of natural history and it i it makes him happy wonderful. It would not be for me personally.

[Bushman]

I would venture to say that the man probably has some psychological problems. In his quote he even states that he is glad that he is done with his expletive display and that reads like a compulsion to me. We all have a few mounts around and enjoy looking at them for the memories that they invoke, but in rooms like that how could a person have that many favorable memories or think of those animals as anything more than just a commodity item? I can see why Brian, the taxidermist is smiling.

[Bill Gunn]

I can see why Brian, the taxidermist is smiling.

+1

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Doesn't look like he's been spending the rent money on taxidermy fees or hunting leases. If a guy has plenty of clams and wants to build an extravagant trophy room, then he should. I think I could have done a little better than the open barn concept, but I don't have the clams to do it so I shouldn't fret over it. What I find a little unsettling is that there is so much. How can one man do enough real hunting to amass those numbers ion a single lifetime. That's not just a bunch of does on the wall either, those are real deer and sheep, and elk, and bears, and lions, and, and, and,........

The guy must have been shooting on the run and that taxidermist has made a career out of one man's hunting..

Alan

[GF.]

JMO, it takes more than money to create that kind of monument to one's self.

It's his money, so he can do what he wants to do with it. Personally, I don't know how much of his wealth he gives to charities, but what he's got invested in that barn could address a lot of needs in this world. I don't know how he's made that kind of money, but it evidently hasn't involved a 24/7/365 kind of effort. If he has done all of it on his own talent, then God must've blessed him mightily... Kinda makes a person like me wonder what he could accomplish if he put some of that time & talent to charitable ends.

[dave-t.]

I read that he is in the pear business and owns one heck of an orchard/cannery operation.

[GF.]

Must be pretty huge, whatever it is.... Though the ability to generate that kind of wealth might lead a skeptical person to question the validity of certain farm subsidies....:hmmmm:

[kjjm4]

To be honest, I've never been a fan of trophy rooms and would never have one myself. I don't have a single head mounted or even a set of antlers hung up anywhere in my house. It's just not my style. I have albums of hunting and fishing pictures that I sometimes show to my buddies, but thats about it.

Like GF said, it's his money and he's free to spend it as he sees fit, but to me, spending that kind of money on a trophy room is a waste of money that could be spent on much better things than a self-aggradizing display like that.

[Twanger]

I had a watershed moment a couple of weeks ago, driven primarily by a gentleman (I use the phrase loosely) on another forum that constantly beats up the (legal) crossbow hunters in the crossbow forum. It seems that if you don't hunt "his way" then you are not a real hunter.

So I've boiled it down to the most essential element.

An anti-hunter is a person who criticizes a hunter for exercising their legal right to take game.

Plain and simple.

So in my eyes, if the guy took all of those hundreds of animals legally, then more power to him. Who am I to criticize, or even judge?
He's a hunter. I'm a hunter. I'm not about to criticize a fellow hunter that took game legally.

We have plenty of anti-hunters standing in the wings to do that.

[Altjaeger]

Pretty well stated Twanger.

[Herne]

Have I met this punter Twanger? He seems to be very keen on "true hunters". Apparently I know nothing of deer, and less of humans who are after big bucks.

Sadly I can't get this to load - so I have to comment generally. As you know I'm not a great trophy man - but for those who are, carry on IMO. Often if well done they are very interesting. The only thing is i prefer my trophies sort of natural. I love those ones of say lions** tackling a gazelle or somesuch, and I wish I had the money and space for things like that. But on one forum there is this mount of a deer with an arrow through it, blood snot and all. I don't like that much.

We all kill, of course, and maybe I'm being a hypocrite, because I suppose me more than many, but that kind of thing is horrible IMO.Tasteless is the word I'd use.

My few mounts are to remember the animal and the day and the company - not a death.

** I had written loins tackling.... which might be really interesting. :)

[Silvertip]

I'd say he made a bit of a pig of himself.I wonder what will become of it all when he croaks ?

[ncboman]

Herne, try it again and give it a few minutes to load.

My wife's first comment. "I wonder if he is a Christian?"

That was my first thought too.

I have more trophys than most hunters but I can remember the story that goes with each of mine. I seriously doubt this guy can.

[GF.]

My wife's first comment. "I wonder if he is a Christian?"

That was my first thought too.



:hmmmm:

Not sure I see the connection, but then again, I was just wondering if there weren't more charitable purposes at hand for that kind of cash, so maybe we're on the sam epage with that.

Twang - Do we do the sport more good by 'supporting' ths guy's 'right' to hunt as much as and however he wants, or by instilling an ethic that recognizes and discourages excess? I have no issue at all with his choice to kill large numbers of animals, provided thatthe kills were clean & sporting and that edible meat went to good use; some of us have killed lots and lots of animals because the local herds need thinning out, some professionally, and some... Well, speaking for myself, some of us just haven't killed that very many animals for lack of time, opportunity and yes, skills. At least to a degree, anyway...

But one of the great writers - I think it was Ruark - once wrote that after a man has killed a particular animal then the sporting thing is to get out of the way and let the next guy have a go at it. He was speaking of elephants, but the same can apply more broadly (IMO) to any exceptional animal... For myself, I'm hoping one day to have one nice specimen on the wall of each species that I've had time to really come to know. A whitetail, a mule deer, an Elk; maybe a pronghorn or even a sheep, should I be so lucky. But my own feelings are more in line with Herne's. The important thing for me to remember is the hunt; the day, the companionship (or perhaps the solitude), and yes, sure, the animal. My own reasons for wanting an actual mount would be more in line with having a miniature museum of natural history for my kids and grandkids so that they will always remember my love of wild places and the creatures that have the gifts to survive there.

But JMO, erecting that kind of monument to one's own 'prowes's is just a little too self-congratulatory. Sort of like Wilt Chamberlain boasting about having indulged himself with thousands and thousands and thousands of women. Maybe it's because I'm constanlty surrounded by people who go to great lengths to put their considerable wealth and success on display for all to see, and maybe it's because I don't see myself as having so much for others to look at. Maybe I'd feel differently if I felt more 'successful' myself, but honestly, I sure as hell hope not.

It just doesn't seem tasteful. It doesn't seem decent. It doesn't seem worthy of praise. It's just not honorable. If 'success' would make me change the way I feel about those sorts of core values, I guess I'd rather not get to be too 'successful' after all...

Because at the end of the day, when we satisfy our own wants ahead of someone else's needs, we're hardly living up to the standard to which we've been Called. We all fail, of course - every damn day. But when a guy seems to be reveling in his own wretched excess.... Frankly, it's not anything that I want to be associated with in any way, shape or form.

I don't think that makes me an Anti. I hope it makes me a decent Steward.

[GF.]

I guess thi sis what I'm looking at...


I'm not about to criticize a fellow hunter that took game legally.

We have plenty of anti-hunters standing in the wings to do that.

So why feed them that kind of ammo?


So in my eyes, if the guy took all of those hundreds of animals legally, then more power to him. Who am I to criticize, or even judge?

Not to get TOOOOO political here, but how do you feel about your tax dollars going to welfare programs? Who am I to judge whether a particular person 'needs' my support or if they're just sponging off of the system? Who am I to complain if they find a legal means to receive more benefits than I happen to think they should be entitled to?

Remember - 'Legal' is just the lowest standard of conduct that society will tolerate without imposing criminal sanctions. JMO, that allows plenty of room for thoughtful self-policing. I don't see any profit in allowing the unjustified criticism of some self-righteous, self-congratulatory ninny to deter the more moderate among us from engaging in a thoughtful discussion of what Sport hunting is and should be about.

[Altjaeger]

Remember - 'Legal' is just the lowest standard of conduct that society will tolerate without imposing criminal sanctions. JMO, that allows plenty of room for thoughtful self-policing.

I remember you using this argument before on archery. Invariably what it end in is a call to GFs higher standard. I think legal is the standard. Self-policing is just that, Twanger can police himself, you take care of your affairs and I will do the same for myself.:smile:

[GF.]

Not my higher standard, Alt. I don't know about you, but I'm still looking up for guidance; not merely toeing a fine line between what the law says is right and going to jail

Isn't it legal for a man to screw a woman other than his wife?

Isn't it legal to let all that screwing lead to 20-year-old adolescents having fathered multiple children all over town, leaving them and all of their mothers on the dole that you and I pay for? Now who's screwed? You. me, and those kids who had no say in the matter, that's who. Their mothers aren't in much better shape, but they knew what was going to happen when they signed on, surely...

And wasn't it legal for the WallStreeters to engineer the housing bubble the way they did? You hear the word 'scandal' a lot, but so far I haven't seen many of those guys headed for jail. Or even worried enough to call their lawyers, seemingly.

If a man doesn't look outside of himself to determine what is right or wrong, then what kind of man is he? Are you going to let a bunch of politicians shape your morals for you?

[Altjaeger]

:rolleyes1:I am glad you have a direct line to God to tell you what you and others should do.

[Twanger]

Interesting you bring morality into it.

God gave us dominion over the animals. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you - Genesis.

I think the moral high ground is established here, and the bar is not all that high.

if you eat what you kill, or feed someone with what you kill, then it's in accordance with God's Law. That's it.

Fair chase ethics related to sport hunting, and I don't consider myself a 'sport hunter.'

I take hunting far too seriously to lower it to a 'sport.' It's a life and death struggle between predator and prey.

I believe, morally, that we owe an animal a quick death that is as painless as possible.

That's where my hard-core morality stops, and I'm happy to let the law pick up right there.

[ncboman]

Not sure I see the connection, but then again, I was just wondering if there weren't more charitable purposes at hand for that kind of cash, so maybe we're on the sam epage with that.


My wife and I were pondering about the guy's tithing. "more charitable purposes" are not the same thing.


Because at the end of the day, when we satisfy our own wants ahead of someone else's needs, we're hardly living up to the standard to which we've been Called. We all fail, of course - every damn day.

You and I are not on the same page at all.

I don't believe in socialism, which I've seen you espouse on the forums repeatedly. The Bible doesn't teach socialism either. If that's the Calling you hear, I think you might be careful what/who you're listening to.

I think we can all agree, the pics alone seem to make the guy appear 'excessive'. Whether he actually is or not, I don't know.

[ncboman]

I remember you using this argument before on archery. Invariably what it end in is a call to GFs higher standard. I think legal is the standard. Self-policing is just that, Twanger can police himself, you take care of your affairs and I will do the same for myself.:smile:

It could be argued that 'legal' isn't much of a standard, as a guy could be a game hog and still be legal.

[ncboman]

Interesting you bring morality into it.

God gave us dominion over the animals. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you - Genesis.

I think the moral high ground is established here, and the bar is not all that high.

if you eat what you kill, or feed someone with what you kill, then it's in accordance with God's Law. That's it.

Fair chase ethics related to sport hunting, and I don't consider myself a 'sport hunter.'

I take hunting far too seriously to lower it to a 'sport.' It's a life and death struggle between predator and prey.

I believe, morally, that we owe an animal a quick death that is as painless as possible.

That's where my hard-core morality stops, and I'm happy to let the law pick up right there.

I don't necessarily agree with all that but I can easily live with it. :biggrin:

[Altjaeger]

It could be argued that 'legal' isn't much of a standard, as a guy could be a game hog and still be legal.

I agree that he could be a game hog. I would even say this man is a game hog, but it is not mine to criticize if he is legal. What I am saying that the law is the standard by which we are called to act. Until then we are on quick sand in our criticism. If we truly believe it is out of line then we are called to rake action in supporting a change in laws, but not against an individual.

I will stick with that I would not be comfortable in his shoes. But he is free to do as he wishes within the confines on the law if it makes him happy. Whether he is Christian, Jew, Taoist, Moslem or any other religion has nothing to do with it any more than where he spends or gives his other funds. That stuff is just a distracting argument.

[ncboman]

Whether he is Christian, Jew, Taoist, Moslem or any other religion has nothing to do with it any more than where he spends or gives his other funds. That stuff is just a distracting argument.


That stuff is just comments made regarding the topic. I don't see it as a distracting argument any more than pondering who actually finds and scouts all the trophys or pondering how many of them are game farm vs fair chase.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Without a doubt the guy likes to hunt. Without going through the page again and without knowing him, I will say that there is an off chance that he did not kill all of them, or any of them for that matter. He just built the display and is displaying the mounts. (truth is he probably killed them).

I suppose on a scale of good to bad, "legal" would be a minimum standard. However there are many, many legal means to take game animals and those legal means vary from state to state and country to country. There are really much fewer "illegal" means and methods to take game and much high talk is bantered about concerning what is "sporting", "fair", and a bunch of other "feel good" words.

I've seen deer, good bucks, that could hear me breathe while they were checking does at a feeder 200 yards away. Shooting them from an enclosed blind was an exercise in patience and absolute stealthy silence. One false move, one sound, would have sent them into the brush. On the other hand I have killed them at 10 feet rattling horns when they came around a bush and stood waiting to fight with those antlers I had dropped on the ground.

What is sporting, what is fair. There are those who deride the enclosed blind/feeder hunting as less than sporting and fair. I know better. The deer coming to horns didn't have a chance. It was murder, plain and simple, if you want to ascribe human characteristics and morals to killing an animal.

Did he eat the meat or cause it to be provided to eaten by someone? Well, what about the hides? Deer hide is valuable. Liver, kidneys, etc.. are all edible. If those got wasted was it immoral? It certainly was not illegal. Do we draw the morality line at food? If you get hungry enough, you'll eat that hide.

What I'll say about Mr. Barr is this. He evidently and obviously likes to hunt and display the trophies he acquires while engaging in that pursuit. He evidently spends a lot of time doing it since if you were to quantify the time it must have taken to kill all those animals and care for the capes properly. Just some quick math on the taxidermy alone is getting into the millions of $$$$ the building is 1/2 mil, the guns pictured are at least another 1/2 mil. Air fare to Africa, even if and especially IF you have your own jet, is another chunk of change.

What I'm getting at is that Mr. Barr is certainly doing his part to stimulate the economy and he's getting to do something he likes to do even if he is a bit obsessive about it. I suppose, if I had a few more million dollars than I have right now I would do some extravagant things too. I would divide my time between hunting and fishing though (and a few other things that bring a sparkle to an old man's eyes, like gardening).

But I know and you all know what it takes to shoot even one of those big bucks, and I'll leave it at that.

Alan

[ncboman]

If you get hungry enough, you'll eat that hide.


:D

I like that.

[DaveHawk]

Doesn't look like he's been spending the rent money on taxidermy fees or hunting leases. If a guy has plenty of clams and wants to build an extravagant trophy room, then he should. I think I could have done a little better than the open barn concept, but I don't have the clams to do it so I shouldn't fret over it. What I find a little unsettling is that there is so much. How can one man do enough real hunting to amass those numbers ion a single lifetime. That's not just a bunch of does on the wall either, those are real deer and sheep, and elk, and bears, and lions, and, and, and,........



The guy must have been shooting on the run and that taxidermist has made a career out of one man's hunting..

Alan


All I can add is the man is passionate and blessed to be able to do what he has done and love what he has done. More power to him !!

Thanks NC for posting this.

[Craig]

Cabela's is looking for all their displays!

[Just a Hunter]

This topic had me scared for a moment.
I thought someone had broken into my trophy room and taken picture's while I was away

[ColoYooper]

It kinda fits one definition of OBSCENE..."I know it when I see it"

[Chuck S]

Sort of reminds me of a tv short I watched on Mr Hagadone, http://www.hagadone.com/ seems that when he was in his 70s a friend suggested that he really needed a yacht. So the result was the Lady Lola. http://askville.amazon.com/Duane-Hagadone-decade-born/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=10638574 Some folks are so rich they think nothing of spending the money they made on things they want. (strange concept) Assuming that Mr Barr is in his late 50s or even 60s, it's possible that he's been actively hunting and collecting trophies since the 60s. A few here adn a few there and next thing you know you need a room. Depending on money available you may even need a building to house your trophies and gun collection! Well done Ken Barr as long as all were taken fair chase, legal, with money made by his business or labor, etc-- I say to each his own. If you have more than one general purpose rifle or more than a trophy or two perhaps you are walking in his footsteps but doing it as you can afford.