.243 for Black bear in the Northeast?

[Bwana416]

I recall that enough black bears have been taken in the Northeast and Canada with the .250 Savage and .257 Roberts to fill a small high school football stadium. Handgunners regularly used to take them with the .357 till specialized hunting handguns appeared.

Why then is the .243 with either partition bullets, Nosler solid base ballistic tips or Barnes X-bullets automatically off the table for bruins up to 200lbs? The .243 is an easy rifle to shoot STRAIGHT and PLACEMENT is everything. A bad hit with a .308 will not bring a better result than a .243 that blows the heart to bits, right?

-Ray

[Just a Hunter]

I recall that enough black bears have been taken in the Northeast and Canada with the .250 Savage and .257 Roberts to fill a small high school football stadium.

Im sure the same could be said about the use of stones on bear's followed by club's, spears, bow and arrows and then the earliest of blackpowder muskets.

There was a time when the 30-30 would have been a modern cartridge, and Im sure it was used fairly often on bears of all kinds along with Elk and Moose.

What you dont hear about is the fact hunters from those time periods expected there game not to drop at the shot and a part of being a good hunter was also
having tracking knowledge.

Hunt your black bear with a .243 if you so wish.
Wait for that perfect shot and buy yourself some bear silhouette's with internal anatomy so you can have some knowledge of where best to place your shot.

PS: When was the last time you heard mention that hunting bear with the .250Savage, Roberts or a .357magnum was still popular?
If these cartridges were as succesful in making quick kills on bears as you might imply then they would still be in vogue would they not?

[Bwana416]

Oh there ARE a lot of "ifs" here. IF you will practice with the rifle till you now it's bullet path better than Angelina Jolie's measurements. IF you will pass up ANY chancy shot and limit shots to 100 yards max with clear shots. If you work up a hyperaccurate load that approaches max ballistic performance for the round. IF you choose a tough bullet like the Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition. Meet the "ifs" and the .243 should do the job. Shirk almost any one of them and you are in for a world of grief, I admit that. Our local bears are small, usually under 200 lbs when shot. Some DO get huge, though. We had a 650 lb. bear taken a few years ago in the Alleghanys.

-Ray

[Just a Hunter]

:) When you look to find the sound coming towards you belongs to a 400+ pounder and realize that he is close enough you may only get one shot before its close enough to touch noses with you I have one question to ask.

At that moment would you be happier knowing you have a 110gr .243 or would you feel better having something larger and more powerful?

PS: A Brown bear may run to you in a false charge and you will hear of brown bears leaving you alone after a attack once there assured your no longer a threat.

If a Black Bear chooses to attack he has likly decided your worth eating. Fight for your life as laying there just makes it easier for him to choose which part to eat first.

[Bushman]

Northeast black bears can't be that much different than WI. bears of which I know a thing or two about getting them over bait. First off they can and do get way bigger than 200#. Next they are putting on lots of fat in the fall in preparation for hibernation. Third you are hunting them in late September if your bear season is like ours, so the under story growth is as thick as it will ever be during the year. Most bears worth hunting live in or around evergreen swamps that are wet and dark. Most big bears show up just at last legal light and you will have minimal time to find them when they run off after the shot. September nights can be pretty warm and a bear will spoil if you don't find them right away. A bear's feet are soft and do not leave scuff marks like a deer so they are difficult to track without a dog. You can't hear them when they walk or run either. I have no doubt that a .243 will kill the biggest black bear out there, but the problem is going to come from finding them after you shoot them. They have lots longer hair that soaks up blood like a sponge and that extra fat layer is going to close over a small wound channel. Every deer that I have seen killed with a .243 did not have the kind of wound channel that I would want in a bear and a TSX or a Partition are not known for big exit wounds. IMO more bore for bear is needed than a .243. You want a BIG leaky entrance wound and an even larger exit wound so that you have a good blood trail. We mostly used broad heads on them, but the ones that we got with rifles were at least .30 caliber and that is the diameter that I would recommend or larger. When we followed up arrow shot bears we liked a 12 gauge slug gun. Thankfully we never had to use it to shoot again.

[Bwana416]

I was not planning to set out to hunt black bears with the .243, but IF (again with the ifs) I am in an elevated stand and IF I have a clear shot at the first or second cervical vertebra than I am sure that a 100 grain Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition will shatter that much bone and sever the spinal cord just below the brain. How far CAN he get then? I do have my late Uncle's old but mint early Thirties vintage Winchester Model 92 in .32 Winchester Special. It can spit 170 grain 8mm bullets pretty fast and that would be more my speed if I really thought I'd see a bear. In NY 90% of bears are taken incidentally by deer hunters. We have very few dedicated bear hunters here. No hounds allowed and no baiting.

-Ray

[Bushman]

Sure if you spine him he will be drt, but I can't say that I have ever seen a neck shot recommended. They have pretty heavy muscle structure that can soak up lots of fpe. With longer hair than a deer, their neck is not as well defined for a precise shot either. Lots of the guys who run bears here with dogs use an iron sighted .30-30 or .32 Special M94 just because it carries so well through the brush. The bears that I have come across during our gun deer season have all been hibernating and that is the reason that WI. does not allow bear hunting during the November gun deer season. Without being able to bait or run them with dogs, our chances of seeing one in the fall would be pretty rare even though there are like 35,000 of them in the state.

[Bwana416]

35 THOUSAND!!!? We only have about 7,000 and that's up from 5,000 twenty years ago. Tell THAT to the animal "rights" morons screeching that the black bear is endangered. They like to talk about the "Florida Black Bear" or "NC Black Bear" as if they weren't ursus americanus all the same. I guess Uncle Pedro was right when he snapped up that Model 92. He said there was nothing in NY State you probably couldn't kill with it.

-Ray

[Bushman]

Ray, I suspect that Uncle Pedro bought you a Winchester M94 instead of a M92. Those early M92's were only made in .25-20, 32.20, .38-40 and .44-40 chamberings.

[Bwana416]

I may be cornfused here. If you looked at the last offerings from Winchester on the 1894 they only listed .30-30 but I have to go look at it now.

-Ray

[Bushman]

True enough about those newer ones, but the older M94's were chambered for: .25-35, .30-30 (also known as the .30 WCF), .32-40, .32 Special and the .38-55. The Trapper M94 (also known as the "Daisy Deer Rifle" to guys in our deer camp and the reason that there is an 11 point set of antlers over my shoulder as I type this because I shoot a .308) could be had in .30-30, .357 Mag., .44 Mag. and .45 LC. They came out with the M94 XTR Big Bore in .307 Win., .356 Win., .375 Win. and .444. They might as well have named it Big Boring for as popular as it ever was around here.

I sure like to play with my M92 in .25-20, but I have never figured out what it's intended use might have been when they brought it out. Too small for big game and too big for small game.

[GF.]

I'm going to side with those who hold that precision shooting on a dark-haired target in poor light is no easy task. Add in all the reasons listed why bears are famously difficult to track, and a high-precision, long-range deer-and-goat-killing wonder like the .243 just seems like it's got it all upside down.

Sure, guys used to use the lighter rounds; that's what they had to work with, so they made do. JMO, a fat, old levergun cartridge was probably considered a better choice than a quarterbore way back then, too!

JMO, I would sooner hunt bears at close range using my .45/70 or my .54 roundballer, given a choice between those and a .243, and I'm not sure that I wouldn't take a bow over the .243 as well.

[Bwana416]

My .54 Tennessee longrifle with it's 44" swamped barrel is DEFINITELY black bear (or elk) medicine. So is my 68# Howard Hill longbow with 3-bladed Wensel Woodsman heads. For that matter so is Uncle Pedro's old .32 Winchester lever gun. At least THAT one can pour out a LOT of lead FAST!!! I was just wondering if I were to encounter a clear shot at relatively close range (under 60 yards) with a well built 100 grain .243 would it be worth the chance IF the bear was on the smallish side. I guess there's something to be said about carrying the Model 29 with heavy hunting loads as a backup?

-Ray

[alan]

So what would you do if a 400# bear shows up? Why take chances if you don't have to?

[Hi Ball]

I would like to know, when can the hunter tell his bear is only going to be a 150 pounder? I learned years ago that one never knows when a very large bear my pass your trail. The shooting of a 500 pound bear with a .243 cal is a bit like using a V W car as a truck. I believe in breaking both shoulders of any bear! I also think one needs to thing about what if before they grab their trusty predator rifle to dispatch a tuff critter like a large Blackbear. My minimum for blackbear is a .338 Win mag and on my last hunt, I used a .416 Rem mag.

[Greywolf]

Ray, your original statement re uncles rifle was

I do have my late Uncle's old but mint early Thirties vintage Winchester Model 92 in .32 Winchester Special. It can spit 170 grain 8mm bullets pretty fast and that would be more my speed if I really thought I'd see a bear. In NY 90% of bears are taken incidentally by deer hunters. We have very few dedicated bear hunters here. No hounds allowed and no baiting.

If indeed you meant to say 92, it would have to have been in 32/20! Mod 92's were a short action gun, 38//40 44/40 44spcl 32/20 /25/20 etc.

AS for killing bears with 243, little old indian ladies in the far north crawl into dens and dispatch bears with a 22 revolver, but I wouldn't make that a sport.
243? No problem, under the best conditions, guaranteed open shot to the brain or heart. Even Blackies are grizzly characters at times. (NO pun intended)

[rimrock]

would a 243 work?, in most cases yes!, but if you were asked whats the IDEAL rifle or carbine to hunt black bear with,or follow up a wounded black bear in thick cover in less than ideal lighting, (always at least a possibility) Id bet the vast majority of people would select something, in a carbine length that could get a fast second shot, (pump,lever or semi-auto) if required, like a 35 remington,30/06, 12-10ga ga slug gun,444 marlin 45/70, 450 marlin, simply because you can,t always predict what will happen, an unseen stick deflecting a shot, a sudden movement of the target, there always a small possibility you won,t hit exactly where you planed to, and a wounded bear may not take kindly to your presents
I know Id sure be far more comfortable walking back from a hunt in dark woods with a bit more ability to thump something big and hairy with a bad attitude at bayonet ranges than a 243 if it ever was required.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/SMattila/Hunting/DSCN07980001.jpg
35 whelen
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45/70
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10ga semi auto

[Hi Ball]

First of all I would like to say, that just because I choose to use a .338 Win mag as my bear gun or even the .416 mag to shoot an 800-lb blackbear in Ska. Canada, one does not have to jump to a .338 mag for a black bear gun in order to have enough gun for the job. A common caliber like the 30-06 is plenty of gun for any black bear if you have those bullets picked out properly. I like the 200 or better yet the .220 grain bullets for bear, this combination has killed many a big Brown back in the 40's and 50's which squared over 10 feet by the way. The next caliber I like is the .35-Whelen, this caliber is just a humdinger for any bear hunt! Another couple of favorites of mine are those Marlin 1895 rifles in the "Triple Four" or the 45/70 caliber using hardcast bullets in either.