Best Broadhead for Elk

[EdMehlig]

I am going on my first Elk hunt in Sept in Oregon. It is a bow hunt and would like to know what you all thought would be the best broadhead and grain weight to use. My bow is set at 60lbs. I was thinking of the Muzzy Phamton, Steel Force or Magnus Stinger.

Thanks..Ed

[GF.]

The Stingers are sharp as hell, man... I cut my finger on one last year and it didn't stop bleeding for hours and hours and hours.... Despite the paper towel and the duct tape strapped on so tight that my fingertip was cold as hell all the way off the hill...

I used the 100-grain, 4-blade last year, but never launched o at anything but the Block.

They seem to be a really good head, but there are plenty more out there, really… 'Best' is in the mind of the user. Chisel-tipped modular heads and mechanicals should be (IMO) absolutely off the table, so I would steer you towards any reputable 3 or 4 blade, cut-on-contact design. If you’re comfortable sharpening your own, that opens up more possibilities, but even though I do real well on most of my knives, I’ve opted for factory edges these days, personally…. Whichever you have the most confidence in, really….

Weight is whatever you’re tuned for, but....

Since you have some time and because Elk are big animals, I think what you can gain in arrow mass and cutting diameter by going up to a 125 (vs. 100) probably outweigh what you give up in terms of speed. I hear a lot about guys shooting Elk at 40 yards and out, but I also hear a lot of sad stories of lost bulls – and angry stories of bow-killed bulls found by firearms-season hunters. Coincidence? I’m not thinkin’ so….

My younger brother plunked a nice, fat cow at just under 20 yards with a 100 gr. Stinger 2-blade... using his 30-yard pin. She stood there staring him down - daring him to move – while she got wobbly and appeared to be losing control of her sphincters. But then she followed the herd off of the bench they were on, and he never found so much as a drop of blood. At least not on the ground. His arrow sailed off a little ways and looked like it had been dipped in the stuff, he said.

So two lessons – one is that high-hit Elk are damned hard to bring down. Second is that 2-blade heads are probably not as good as 3 or 4-blade designs, provided you can get the penetration that you need. And any reasonably modern compound shooting 6-7 grains per pound should be able to drive a 4-blade COC through an Elk no worries. Maybe your shaft won’t go sailing off through the woods on the other side, but who cares, man? Just open a decent-sized hole on the off side to let the air in and blood out. Maybe you'll get lucky and the shaft will get backed out; the Stingers cut both ways, so if (as Fred Brear said) shooting them with a 4-blade is like hitting them twice, then that would be like shooting them FOUR times!

Oh, and stick it in the right spot to begin with.

[EdMehlig]

Thanks GF, I like the looks of the Muzzy Phamtom broad head, but I hear you need 5" fletchings to make them shoot acurately?????? I was going to go with the Stinger but I've read a lot of reviews where people were stating no or hardly any blood trail???? Don't know if they were using the two or 4 blade. So I think I am going to go with the Steel Force HP 125gr 4 blade broad head.

Ed

[Twanger]

I killed a few deer with the Steel Force COC BH but could not always get them to spin stabilize well. About 1 in 4 would not pass the spin test. I was shooting 270 fps and it seemed that they would wind plane a little.
I'm shooting 5" feathers with lots of offset.

I would guess if shot slower they would stabilize better.

You might look into Slick Tricks. Four blades really makes 'em bleed.

[dave-t.]

I would use a G-5 Montec, Nap Hellrazor, or G-5 Striker.

I've used the Montec on deer a few seasons, and have had great success with it.

[GF.]

JMO... Slick tricks run a blade angle that's not conducive to deep, deep penetration. I'll agree with you on the 4-blade, though.... That's why I'm using them; 2-blades can just open a slit that muscle contractions that pretty well seal off.

I like the Montec and the Hellrazor better than the Striker, because of the Striker's replaceable (and therefore IMO loseable) blades.

But if you're looking at that kind of 3-blade, then the Wensel Woodsman gives you the longer, flatter ramp angle up the blade, it's damn solid, and a lot of tradshooters are crazy about them.


Penetration is The Deal on Elk.

That said, the 1" width of the Steelforce seems a bit sketchy compared to 1 1/8....... Gotta be balanced, just like a good bullet...

[Twanger]

GF - you're right about the cutting angle. Also, I'd say that many factors affect penetration.

There is a design trade-off competition between internal damage, penetration, and external ballistics.

Einstein said "Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted."

I believe this is as true in shooting animals as it is in physics of the atom.

For example, the fact that slick-tricks have a cut-out in the blade helps stop them from wind-planing, but I'm guessing that the flat dull trailing edge can hang-up and slow the thing down as it penetrates the animal. Could even get caught on a bone that the first part of the blade cut through.

Long flat pointy blade tips can get turned on bone, bent and lead the head astray. Long blades with large areas are more susceptible to wind-planing. Arrows that bend in the body or fishtail in flight have poor penetration characteristics too.

At one time NCbowman posted a picture of hundreds of different arrow head designs... and they were all flint! It seems that we've been experimenting long before steel was invented!

If I had to write requirements for a broadhead it would be a host of conflicting requirements: many blades so that the wound cannot be plugged easily, large blades to cut a wide wound channel, but great penetration and supreme accuracy in fight. Durability and re-shootability. Easy to sharpen but holds a great edge. Of course, low cost.

It's a conundrum of incompatible engineering requirements.

I lean towards 3 blades, small heads, and arrow accuracy. A small 3-blade head will easily kill an elk if placed properly. If the head is so long and cumbersome that you can't get it to reliably stabilize in flight then it means little that it penetrates well.

[GF.]

Because accuracy is always the #1 consideration...:top:

Is it just me, or is this sounding more and more like considering the cartridge's MV when picking out a bullet?

The thing is, the # of blades and the cutting diameter are just like expansion; a bigger wound channel at the expense of penetration. And as we all know, there's no sense expecting a 150 grain ballisti-bomb out of a .300 WM to make up for ****py shooting, and neither is there any profit in going to a heavy-for-caliber super-penetrator to kill an average deer with an average round. And neither one will compensate for operator error or misjudgment.

But personally, I've gone to starting at the extreme for penetration purposes and scaling back down to what makes sense

With my recurve, in the low 50s and probably not shooting over 180 fps, I may be better off with the 2-blade COCs than if I were to bump up to a 4-blade. The guys I hunted Elk with last year were using 2-blades at roughly the same poundage, but I don't know if they've ever killed one with them. For deer, I think 4 blades makes sense; Elk... maybe not. But with the contraption shooting a 350 grain arrow faster than most 70-pounders could until just a few years ago, I think I could shoot a 4, 5, or even 6 blade chisel-point through a lot of deer before I ran into a penetration problem.

One good thing I noticed about chisel points is that because they have to stretch the hide a bi before they poke through, they seem to make bigger cuts. The hide must almost wrap over the head before the cutting begins... That seems to make for a biggish exit... assuming you can get one. Probably also delivers more of a thump to the side of the animal, which probably makes them run harder. Well, no... I guess I should say it probably makes them that much more likely to run. A bunch of guys who have shot deer with COC heads have stories about animals that act like they're not even hit, but it seems to me that a deer that takes a good, hard crack in the ribs is going to blow outta there on full steam, rather than half power. Do they think they're running from a predator or not?

[Twanger]

I find it difficult to find a trend in why a deer will run or not.
Eighty percent (+/-) will run like the wind right after they are struck.

Late season last year I shot a buck through both lungs with a very loud crossbow at a range of 7-8 yards and he just jumped a few feet and then stood there after the shot for long seconds. I wondered if I missed.
Then he jumped again a few feet and stood there some more.
Then he ran off like the wind, and crashed about 80 yards out.

Shot a small doe at a range of 25 yards with the pistol, very loud, and she just continued to walk and feed until she tipped over.

I do think that if the arrow stays in them they run more often. Ditto if you catch the off shoulder.
However, 90% or more of the time my arrow goes right through them like a rocket and sticks in the ground before they can even move. They still usually run like he||, but once in a while they just stand there, or jump a few feet and stop.

What I think is odd is that sometimes you'll pick one off out of a group and that deer will run like it was stung by bees, and the other deer will just stand there and let you shoot another one. Sometimes they all run off with the one you shot. Often these deer will come back if they don't know you were there.

After accuracy.... quiet bows rule.

[dave-t.]

I've had that happen to me before Twanger, where I shot the lead deer, and it ran off through the group, but the others paid no attention and came on down the trail as if nothing ever happened. I don't have the first clue as to why. They are usually much more in tune with what other animals are doing around them.

Another time I was gun hunting a big bean field with another hunter down the field about 300 yards. He shot a doe that had a 4pt trailing her, she ran 40-50yrds and cartwheeled in the field, and that buck woudn't leave her. In fact he tried to mount her while she was laying dead.

[rimrock]

Ive preferred the muzzy phantom heads for the last few years, but Id point out that the weight of the arrow draw length and draw weight effect your results will vary, you can,t expect a 60lb 26" draw combo with a 600 grain arrow to penetrate like a 87 lb 32"draw and 600 grain arrow would

[Poor Man]

I am a firm believer in the Thunderhead by N.A.P. Taken all of our elk with them. Fly ecelent, cut everything they touch, leave good blood trails and most importantly penitrate bone. I have shot through an elks shoulder ( 80# bow) and my father burried a Thunderhead in an elks spine ( under his tree stand).