Trap & Skeet

[SeniorCoot]

Best we get forums going-I shot skeet(frist season) & trap last year and will again this year-Started shooting my Cynergy but didn't do well- so went to my SBE11- ok but not the answer- i seem to go up and down with scores-Late last fall I bought a used Beretta 686 and added some Carlson SP chokes- will try skeet for skeet and Full for trap- also got some yellow and amber glasses as i found i was having problems seeing pheasant and targets in cloudy weather- any suggestions to boost consistency?

[Bayrat]

Coot,

Those are some nice guns. You should be able to do well at clays with any one of them ..... but only if they fit you.

Have you tried patterning any the guns at 40 yards? Not just to see what patterns they're throwing with what shells , but especially important with new guns,.... where they shoot the center of those patterns when you are looking down the barrel at a bullseye.

I'm big with wide shoulders, but not proportionally long arms. I've had to slightly shorten and put 'cast-off' in the stock of every shotgun I own. And because they have even shorter arms and narrow shoulders, 'cast-on' for my daughter's and girl friend's shotguns. That puts our heads where our dominant eye is directly in-line with the center-line of the barrel, with head up and both eyes level. And our heads are at the right fore/aft point on the stock to not shoot under rising targets, as so commonly happens with new gun owners.

Bayrat.

[SeniorCoot]

Good point and thanks--i have just patterned my turkey gun and will do same with others now that weather is better.

[Bayrat]

Coot,
If I may suggest.

If your going to pattern your skeet and trap guns like a turkey gun, you'll only find out how well they pattern when you have time to aim like a rifle, but not 'where' they place the highest concentration of shot (hopefully the center of your patterns) when your swinging the gun on a moving target.

With every new gun, before I check patterns with chokes and differant shells, I put up a 4 foot square paper - just like I was going to pattern shells/chokes. I mark the center with a Sharpie pen about the size of a clay.

I back off a measured 40 yards (so I have a relationship to most clay target patterning distances).

Without taking time to carefully aim like I would with a rifle, I bring the gun up and as soon as I see the target floating on the end of the barrel I fire. I do that ten times with the same piece of paper. Then I look to see where the highest concentration of shot is in relation to the clay drawn on the paper.

Some guys like a "flat" shooting gun for skeet - one that the pattern is pretty much centered on the clay because the clays aren't rising quite as fast as in trap.

For Trap, many guys like a "high" shooting gun - one that the pattern center is high compared to the target paper clay. That way, because of the faster rising trap clays they can still see a straight-away bird.

Since I use the same guns for both trap and skeet I adjust the stocks so that I'm shooting only slightly high .... but when shooting trap, I have to compensate by covering the clay with the end of the barrel on straight-aways or I'll shoot under every time.

And, not all chokes for a given gun shoot to the same point of aim. Check each choke, of each gun you'll be using.

Hope this helps.
Bayrat.

[SeniorCoot]

Thanks bayrat- I will try your suggestions. They sound logical.

[snake river rufus]

Pattern each choke tube, sometimes one tube will shoot no where near another.
Do you know where you are missing? High, low, behind?

[SeniorCoot]

Mostly behinfd according to my buddies that i shoot with- gotta keep the GUN moving.

[Bayrat]

Coot,

"Mostly behind ...... "

When I started out ... if I'd been anymore behind the bird than I was, I'd have to shoot the day before the bird was released to be able to hit it !!!! :D

That's why I decided to learn to shoot starting from a 'gun down' position for skeet and sporting - got no swing without it.

Plus, at the time, I thought learning gun down starts would help with upland bird hunting ..... that is, until I got out in the field and found there ain't much upland birds to hunt here in central NY anymore. :mad:

If you want to stick with gun up starts for trap, here's something my mentor taught me that you may want to try.

Start with the barrel about a foot or more below the roof line of the trap house - instead of like many trap shooters who start a foot above. Not only does it not block sight of the clay if it leaves the trap house in line with the barrel,.... having farther for the barrel to go in the same time span I have to generate more barrel swing speed to catch the bird. That extra speed helps me keep the gun moving so that when I 'see' it's time to pull the trigger, the barrel has moved on to a bit more lead by the time I react, pull the trigger and the shot leaves. Plus, that extra barrel speed/momentum helps me prevent 'swing stop' and I have a better follow through.

He always insisted that the faster you have to move the gun, the tougher it is to stop it !!!

Sure worked for me!!!

Bayrat.

[SeniorCoot]

Hey I*'ll give that a try- i was holding above house on middle positions and to the right on #5 and left on #1-also above--
Where in central NY are you? i lived for 6 yrs in Ithaca-shot a few birds there with my first lab but not many- i had a small farm outside of town the last few years I was going to Cornell.

[snake river rufus]

I used to put some weight on the end of the barrel when I'd go into a slump of stopping my swing. a fired shell full of shot taped by the muzzle helped keep the swing moving.
You might also consider seeing a shooting coach, sometimes they will see things that your buddies don't.

[Bayrat]

Yes, as Rufus said, definately find a coach, or at least a mentor who is consistantly a good shooter, if you can.

I finally got help after a very frustrating year plus of learning bad habits. Some my own and some from other well-meaning shooters who were trying to help, but had bad habbits themsleves. It's always much easier to learn the good before having to unlearn the bad ! :rolleyes:

And pick your coach/mentor carefully !!!! As you may have found out by now, trap fields can be chock-a-block full of bad coaches :D.

My mentor always said, "when in a slump, go back and start RE-checking all the basics. Stance, bring gun up to face not face to gun, check starting aim point, and for God sakes keep your head on the gun!!!!!". He used to get very frustrated with me lifting my head occationally. :rolleyes: He said that someday he was gonna duct tape my head to the gun and see how well I did then !!!:D

As a result of his teaching, when I start shooting poorly I know it's because I'm off on the basics, so I try not to make any changes to the gun once I get it set up to where it's working for me. Adding/removing weight can be just one more variable for some shooters. Learning to be consistant in what you do is key to consistantly breaking clays.

That's why I also use the same pump 12 ga for trap, skeet and sporting. Seen too many guys who could be very good shooters, but they'd drive themselves nuts because they kept switching guns thinking a more 'specialized' gun would help make them a better shooter. If your going to shoot differant clay sports, it's easier to get good using just one gun. Get a good gun that you like - get it fitted to you.... if it's not already a good fit, and then practice with it on as regular a basis as you can.

And.... a good coach can also help you check gun fit and what/how if anything needs to be change.



I'm about an hour east of Ithica near Norwich.

Bayrat

[Bushman]

If it were me, I would open the chokes up too. I shoot winter trap league and they tell me that frozen birds are harder to break, but I've never seen it. We have guys on the team that still shoot a full choke and a hit off the 16-18 yard line where our team usually shoots from turns the bird to dust. I've gone from a full with 7 1/2's to an improved modified to a modified and now to a Briley extended choke light modified with a handicap load of 8's. My birds count just as much as the guy who dusts them and that combination of choke and 8's has me our #1 gun. That more open choke is very forgiving and if I stop a swing or think I've missed one because I've held on it badly, the bird still breaks often as not.

When I shot skeet with my o/u it was skeet #1 and skeet #2 for chokes. Above all the shotgun needs to fit. I grew up shooting Remington 870's and 1100's and when I used my o/u for trap my average went down two birds. My parkerized 870 isn't as pretty as some of the Perazzi's, but I'll put my average against most of the guys who shoot them.

[Bayrat]

Good point Bushman.

I shoot with a Hastings modified choke for trap, but with the barrel being VERY back-bored and magnum shot it shoots a measured full pattern. I shoot one ounce magnum 8's, but use a 1200 fps load so I'm not just knocking dust off some on windy days.

If they could spend time down in the trap house loading birds and watching from in there, trap shooters would be amazed at how many birds get hit, but only show dust being knocked off from pellets going way too slow for their size.

Using a mod or improved mod choke with 1-1/8 ounce of 7-1/2's, or even an ounce of 8's is plenty of pellets in a pattern at 16 yard ranges .... unless the shooter is slow and likes to shoot a falling bird.

For skeet I switch to an Imp Cyl that's been honed out a bit larger (can't get skeet or cyl chokes for my gun). With an ounce of chilled 9's. it then shoots only slightly tighter than Imp Cyl, about like skeet two.

Bayrat.

[SeniorCoot]

Thanks guys- i have thought of getting a coach and might just do it this spring--i am not a real serious T&S guy shoot a few rounds o0f clays at place we trsain our dogs- shoot one old man league for skeet and a fun league for trap- funny thing is I'm a pretty fair shot in the field- goose or duck fields- dux from boat or blind etc--or any upland bird.