Do the .17 and .20's work that much better?

[Bushman]

Maybe if I need to ask, I wouldn't understand. It just seems to me that we have been perfectly content with the .22 caliber rounds since they invented smokeless powder and with bullets ranging from 30 up to 90 grains, it can handle about any varmint application. I've seen the .22's blow around in a wind and the lighter .17 and .20's must be even worse in the wind. I suppose the fun factor enters into it with additional speed, but can you really tell the difference in a few hundred feet per second on the target? What am I missing having a .22 lr instead of a .17HM2 or a .22 WM instead of a .17 HMR or a .221 Fireball instead of a .17 Fireball?

[dave-t.]

Faster, flatter, less kick, more explosive hits, and they also seeem to be exeedingly accurate. I don't know why that is, but folks who use the micro calibers report awesome accuracy, even with the rimfires.

If you aren't wanting to send tiny bits of little rodents all over the landscape, then you're probably not missing anything.

The tiny cals would be more fur friendly on fox, bobcat and yotes though, if that mattered.

[30-338]

About 95% of my varmit rifles have been rebarreled etc just wanted to up the accuracy level. Depending on target yardage velocity can be important IMHO.

Some days out PD shooting wind gets so bad wish I had a 50cal. I've been shooting the 17Rem now over 30yrs so have a place for 17cal that I use for varmits. Beside the 17Rem have a 221 Fireball and have 17 on that case to me they are just another varmit rifle and has the same limitation as any varmit rifle. On a real calm day I've take some 500/600yd shotswith the 17Rem and it's a great learn tool for reading conditions.

I build my 221Fireball on X-P action had 26" fluted barrel in a McMillan stock used a Rem 40x action for the 17Rem also 26" barrel in McMillan stock used a H&S stock/Rem 700 action with 24" barrel for the 17machIV.

Sometimes I may take 3/4varmit rifles you can be calm all morning then wind pick up so try an have enough calibers that I can shoot the enitre day.

I've got a friend that uses a 17HMR when he driving around and checking cattle doesn't have to worry about ricochets also uses a 22mag.

[Bayrat]

Many of the guys who save the pelts use the 17 cal for short to medium range yote and fox hunting because they say it's more "fur friendly".

Small entrance hole - easily stitched up, and no exit wounds, but still devistating results internally.

However, most of those guys are/were using .17 cal centerfire. I haven't heard of any switching over to the .17HMR. And I would wonder why because I can't amagine the .17HMR would even come close to what 30-338(and others) can do with a .17Rem.

I think quite a bit of the .17HMR attraction, like many other calibers that have pooped up, is more because it's 'new', not necessarily because it's better than what's already out there.

As a someone once said, "We have more calibers than we know what to do with ..... but it sure is fun trying to find out.".

Bayrat

[snake river rufus]

While I haven't used the .17hmr on a lot of coyotes I will say that I have always had to do some tracking, I'm starting to believe the .22wmr is a better round when the body weight starts closing in on 30#s.

[jayd4wg]

I can attest to the power of a 22WMR with the right bullet.

33gr remington polytip VMAX bullets make soup out of the lungs. no pass thru
40 gr CCI JHP's will pass thru, leave about a half inch hole on exit.
some guys like the federal 50 grainers - my gun won't shoot them.

I usually stick to the Remmy's as my gun will print .5 to 1" at 100 depending on wind. I'm comfy shooting to 150, using the mildot scope. Sighted dead at 125, 4" low at 150 and the third dot down at 200 is close enough to put a smack sound in a standing ground hog. I rarely shoot further than 100 though, i like sneaking up on the G'Hogs.
I have yet to put much time into hunting dogs.

[bugsNbows]

Time will tell. I just picked up a Remmy Varmint SF in .204 Ruger to play with.

[SeniorCoot]

Posted this before BUT one guy who shoots with us went to 17 & 204 for giggles and that's what we got-- fine at short distances with no wind but do not work at all against 223 or 22-250 in SD shooting PD's--The wind always blows there- going tomorrow and guys from mT are leaving their fad guns home-- still trying to sell them.

[Scout]

I've not played around with the 20's but do have some experience with the .22 and the .17. From my experience, the .17 doesn't really kill them any deader than a .22 mag. It just gets there a little quicker.:D My Savage .17 is more accurate than my Savage .22mag. Whether or not it's the rifle or the cartridge....who knows? They're still both fun to play with.

[Bushman]

Being fun to play with is the name of the game I guess. I like Senior Coot's "fad guns" moniker. I've been kind of frustrated lately looking for .221 Fireball ammo on the shelf because all I see is the .17 Fireball ammo. I bought the .221 Fireball because I think that it is a more practical round. The ammo buyer at Gander Mountain doesn't seem to agree.

[Bill Gunn]

I bought a CZ .17HM2 quite a while a go. It's good lookin', super accurate (3/8" groups all day @ 50 yards), and I actually like the gun a lot.

I checked out which load it liked best (Eley), bought 1200 of 'em, and it's sat in the safe since then, almost 2 years... :rolleyes:

My personal favorite is a .22 mag, or a .222.

[Hi Ball]

I never owned a .17 cal but have several friends of mine who do shoot the 17, one even goes back to the days of the .17 Remington. I do have a .204 in the Savage model 12, with a 5 x 15 Bushnell 3200 elite mil-dot recticule and turrets. It shoots under .500 MOA 7/24 and most days will do under .300 MOA with 32 grn bullets. It's boring to shoot it is so accurate.

We also have the .223 and it too is very good on most varmints. The rifle has clean lines and very nice wood considering it is a CZ rifle. Also has the same scope as the one above. I figure it was around $125 bucks cheaper than the Leupold model with turrets and mil-dot.

[Drakeslayer]

After driving 250 miles to shoot squirrels in Bonanza, OR I discovered my son's 10-22 was missing a pin. He left it out when he reinstalled the trigger assemble after cleaning. Since I had neglected to bring any extra rifles, I borrowed a CZ 17hmr bolt gunfrom the ranch owner. All I can say is WOW! The critters were running around on top of the snow which turned crimson when the rounds connected. I felt the range we were able to connect reliably was increased 25 to 50 yds. The terminal effect was impressive but I realize that bullet construction is likely the main factor there, still velocity of the little pills must be considered. I haven't bought one yet, didn't like the trigger of the CZ and funds are in short supply due to Arnie's pay cuts. I work in CA. but I certainly liked the performance of the round. In the back of my mind I wonder if a new premium 22lr wouldn't do as well. But I will remember that day for a long time.

[Bushman]

Drakeslayer, first off welcome to the forums. I'm glad that this thread flushed you out from among the anonymous lurkers. I don't think that a .22 LR will have the velocity to equal the results that you saw with the hotter .17 HMR which is a rimfire .22 Magnum necked down to .17 caliber. That said, I just picked up a box of .22 Magnum 30 grain V-Max cartridges made by Hornady and I am thinking should be getting pretty close to what a .17 HMR can do. I do like the larger bullet selection available these last years for the .22 Magnum. Back lots of years ago when I started shooting the cartridge there was only a 40 grain hollow point or a 40 grain solid.

[skb2706]

I shoot pds all the time and have thousands of private land acres to do it. I have several .22 cal center fire rifles but these days I take the .204s. They have as much range, not more effected by wind than the mid size .22 cal bullets at 22-250 speeds, shoot as flat if not better and take less fuel to do it. I can also be my own spotter....fad gun or not they are very effective. We bust pds quite easily at 350-400 with .204s and its no less windy on our plains than anywhere else.

[Hi Ball]

Bushman I have owned and shot the .22WMR for at least 10 years. I have dispatched fox, squirrel, opposum with good results under 75 yards, using a Leupold 2 x 7 power scope. Coon just soak up those 22mag bullets, unless you can put head shots on them. I went to using FMJ bullets for those critters but they still get to the woods and disappear sometimes.

I then simply went and got the CZ model 527 in a .222 Remington caliber. It does real good out to around the 225 yard marker using 50 grn Hornady V-Max bullets. Why even in a 25mph wind and under 150 yards, I have no problem hitting my targets with that very accurate rifle. It is a Tack-Driver to say the least, shooting those 50grn Moly bullets at 3150fps.

I have the rifle zeroed at 150yds dead on, it is 1 inch high at 100 yds and 7 inches low at 300 yds. It's been a joy to own and shoot quite frankly. Those Hornady bullets are really give an explosive effect on small animals, like a 1/2 stick of dynamite was strapped to their backside. :)

[Bushman]

Yes, I've had a .22 magnum for about as long as I've been shooting too. I've been very pleased that they have a lot more bullets available for it now, but it could never measured up to the center-fires. I had a .222, .222 Magnum and a 6mm that I used for a time. Even loaded some light Sierra bullets for my .30-06 to shoot crows in the dump with. I looked at those CZ's but the safety was backward from all my other rifles so I bought a Cooper instead. A .221 Fireball around here is near perfect as we can't shoot that far and it makes .224" holes in targets about as well as anything else. What I've always liked about the .22 magnum though is that it is a rim-fire and rim-fires can be used year around anywhere in the state. Not so center-fires. Farmers only know what they hear and if you are shooting a bigger center-fire with lots of noise, they think that you are shooting their cows or something. Few woodchucks and no prairie dogs around and would you believe that what few woodchucks that there are here are a protected species! Bigger varmints like fox, coon, coyotes, wolves (wishful thinking) need a little more bullet weight I'm thinking than the .17's or .20's. That .204 Ruger looks like a fun gun though.

[Hi Ball]

Bushman I purchased a .17-HMR this past Spring and put it through somewhat of a workout on various small game animals. I shot close to 20 squirrels with the rifle and it did a very good job for the most part. I usd several types of ammo too, once in awhile a squirrel would jump 4 feet into the air and run 15 yards but that was the ammo causing that to happen. I shot a couple of red fox and hit them dead center of the chest, only to knock them down quickly and 5 minutes later they got up and ran off. I hit a oposum once 4 times in the boiler but it just kept going to the woods until a head shot connected.

I don't have much faith in the .17-HMR, only on P-Dogs and squirrels size animals, should this caliber be used in my humble opinioni!!! The .22mag is far more effective in putting down the smaller animals and will do the same for the coyote too under say 60 yards . However, there is a new "50grn bullet" out now for the .22mag and that will really give it some penetration deepth on coyotes or other animals. I am going to run a test this weekend with this new Federal 50 grain (Game-Shok) ammo, just to see how it does. I am also trading in that .17-HMR Savage rifle that shoots 1/4 inch groups at 50 & 75 yards with a 4 x 12 power scope.