Tele-Check.... What Are Your Thoughts On it?

[Hoosier Hunter]

Indiana is reviewing the possibility of going to a tele-check system for checking in deer and turkey. It really seems to be a controversial subject. Many are for it but many have concerns. How will we fund it? What does it cost? Makes it easier for cheaters, loss of revenue for check-in stations (pop, chips, sandwichs, ect.). I've heard some even say it just cheapens the importance of the game animal and lessens hunter attitude :confused:.

So far CO's and LEO's are supportive of it. I'm personally supportive of it as well. I realize there is no need to recreate the wheel here. The technology is already out there and being used.

Right now we're required to fill out a temporary tag immediately upon killing. This temporary tag is homemade and not gov't issued. Then we're required to take the animal to an official check-in station within 48 hours. There they will log the information and give you a permanent metal tag. Check in stations are not required to look at the animal or verify anything.

What's everyone thoughts on tele-check? Chime in whether you have it or not.

HH

[Sidekick]

We have it here in Missouri and I love it. I live at least ten miles from the nearest town so it cuts down on the amount of time I have to haul a carcass around which is a good thing because sometimes the weather is a bit on the warm side here and I want to get it skinned and cooled as soon as possible. Also saves on gas. Is it open for abuse? You betcha! But I don't care and I think that to a certain extent neither does the MDC. We have an overabundance of deer and I don't think they worry a whole lot about the occasional illegal act. That doesn't mean they won't nail your hide to the wall if you give them a reason to I think that they just want to make deer hunting as easy as possible to get the kill numbers up. It's also easier on them.

It does cut down on the check station camaraderie but I would rather be able to shoot a deer behind the house and have it hanging within minutes of firing the shot than drive 25 miles round trip and waste about an hour first. You'll like telecheck.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

The whole idea of checking in your animal is foreign to me. Here your tags are on your license. When we kill the animal we fill (property and county) out the tag and cut out the date and attach it to the animal. There is also a tag log on the license for the same information. Then we do with it as we please with a few minor restrictions in regards to butchering in the field and final destination. In 48 years of deer hunting I've never had to so much as show a tag to a game warden much less check a deer at a check station. It seems to me that your Game Wardens are up drinking coffee at the check station waiting for someone to come in with an improperly filled out tag so they can justify their existence. Ours are out looking for violators in the field. I used to give them the keys to our place but they never came out because they knew there wasn't anything to catch out there.

Now I have been checked on the water while fishing but never while hunting (duck).

I can't imagine the logic behind shooting a deer behind your house and having to load that sucker up and take him for a 5 mile ride much less a 25 mile ride just to show it to a game warden. I'd think a lot of folks just wouldn't do that. Hang him up in the shed and cut him up. Be frying backstrap by the time you'd've gotten back from the check station. Evidently, they aren't going to come out to find perpetrators. That would mean leaving the Check station. Even phoning in the kill is a bit overboard. The way I figure it, I bought my license and I can choose to use the tags or not (I can't let someone else use mine). TPW can just assume I killed my 5 deer, although I can't recall the last time I did that.

I do believe that when we start seeing more and more regulations and restrictions as to recording and tagging and checking animals that are hunted it is an indication that the Wildlife Department is running out of actual productive things to do. The departmental bureaucracy has gotten top heavy with pencil pushers and nobody wants to do the legwork to catch up with those who are poaching (what ever that is these days).

Alan

[Smokey]

The tele-check system should work fine. It should also save the state some money as some places have temporary people and college students doing some of the monitoring. I think they do loose some information on condition of the deer herds. By that I mean they take measurements and sometimes a tooth for ageing.

In PA and AZ you tag your animal with the appropriate tag provided by the state and take your animal home. You then send in a report card on the game killed at the end of the season.

I believe PA requires bears to be taken to a check station and AZ requires bear and mountain lion to be checked.

[bugsNbows]

Ive hunted the last couple of years in KY. They have it there and it's no big deal. I've hunted NY for many years, same thing. No need to go to a game check station. I'd support it.

[Bushman]

We need to check ours in too and this last year I saw more info was asked for than ever before. The state has check in stations all over the place like gas stations and convenience stores. No wardens ever unless you take them to a ranger station or DNR office. We then get a metal tag put on that confirms that they were registered. The meat processors won't take in meat unless you provide your license number and the state can cross check those records to make sure that the deer was registered. We do have a pretty well regulated check in system. Now if they would only let us cut the deer in half or quarters for easier packing out of the big state land. No ATVs off private property and getting a big whole field dressed deer out by yourself is a lot of work.

[Hoosier Hunter]

I live within a 1/4 mile of a check station so I'm one for the fortunate ones. I process all my deer and would like to start it immediately during warmer weather. It's not uncommon to be in the 80's during early archery. Having to hang the deer, load it back up the next morning and have it checked it is a pain. I've probably taking close to 75 deer over the years and never had one aged here but I hear they do ocsasionally do that.

[venado]

Alan and I see this in the same manner.

What needs to be noted is that check stations are going away state after state and for good reason, they provide only limited information that is not necessary for the state's effort to manage wildlife and they cost money/personel in some form or fashion that can be more effectively spent elsewhere.

Many states instituted check stations in an age where deer were under great duress and their survival was under question. Since that time the herds have increased exponentially and there is no danger that deer might be eliminated.

In the case of Indiana as Hoosier Hunter discusses, the harvest has increased dramatically since the early 1980s and is currently near an all time high. From that information it is obvious that check stations are not needed for management purposes, and the only reason for a check station to exist is one of tradition. Traditions are great but they always need to be balanced against the usefullness of change.

[MOGC]

...It seems to me that your Game Wardens are up drinking coffee at the check station waiting for someone to come in with an improperly filled out tag so they can justify their existence. Ours are out looking for violators in the field....
Alan

Wrong answer... When we had check stations the Conservation Agents weren't hanging around drinking coffee and shooting the bull as you assume. MDC Agents were out in the field doing field checks, ect. If there was a problem at a check station the people running the station would call the Agent in to come take care of whatever the situation was. I had them call the Agent in on me once, I tried to explain to the attendant that he was wrong, but he wouldn't listen. The Agent came in, I explained, the attendant was in fact wrong and they both apologized and I was on my way none the worse for it. No biggie...

I like Tele-Chek better. If you are camped in the boonies you don't have to drive in to a check station for your deer. You might have to drive in somewhere to get cell reception, or climb to a tall hilltop, but even that is better than driving 20 - 40 miles to a check station and then back to camp. Crooks are crooks regardless and the simple act of physically checking a deer won’t prevent that fact.

[venado]

MOGC said:


Crooks are crooks regardless and the simple act of physically checking a deer won’t prevent that fact.


You have that right..! That is the reason that check station information still demands that experts at analysis of data come up with factors to reasonably predict actual harvest data no matter the method used to detect harvest. Some tricky number dude needs to determine that 0.0002567% of hunters are crooks.:rolleyes:

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Using Check Stations to manage a deer herd is like managing my bank account based on what I spend. It only measures what I spend. Unless you're doing some kind of science project to study deer it counts for nothing unless you are going to account for everything which I would think would be cost/time prohibitive.


"I had them call the Agent in on me once, I tried to explain to the attendant that he was wrong, but he wouldn't listen. The Agent came in, I explained, the attendant was in fact wrong and they both apologized and I was on my way none the worse for it. No biggie..."

This would have been a Biggie for me. Wasting my time because of some forms being filled out, (if that was the cause of the Agent's agent being wrong) when I had to waste my time taking the deer in there in the first place to be checked. These days and times it is rare, in my opinion, that the actual "Poacher" operates. I doubt the one's that do take their poached deer to the Check Station. I think there are lots of citations being issued on "Technicalities". 30 years ago there were some guys who were getting $35 - $45 for a deer and they were selling them to people who were viewing that as cheap meat. There were lot's of "folks" who were getting it even cheaper with one 22 lr behind the ear. Those days are gone for the most part. Welfare took care of the need for cheap meat and skinning out and cutting up a deer is a lot more trouble than picking up a sirloin on the "Lone Star Card".

Man, you even call your Game Wardens, Agents. That in itself smacks of top-heavy bureaucratic meddling. Take your time away from hunting and camp to report to the Check Station with your uncleaned deer so your game dept. can justify their existence and budget.

Make no mistake, I think ours is getting a little Top-heavy too. But ours has to live within the budgetary limitations of hunting and fishing license sales. Kinda keeps their perspective as to who is in charge.

Alan

[pepaw]

I agree with Alan that tag and log system appear to work for me. I wish there were far more wardens to cover the many miles of deer country here. If the fine was big enough for poaching, that would even be more beneficial.

Funny thing, Alan, only time I recall one of my deer being checked was in Goliad for a buck from Duval Co. while we were passing through. My dad still laughs because the warden made a wisecrack about the small buck's rack. (Back then I was still in my "pull the trigger" stage:o)

pepaw

[LE]

I hunt in states where both systems are operational. Never had a problem either way. Good information can be gotten from the check station. The problem of monitoring CWD is one of the information gathering things that can't be done with a phone call. Sure it takes time & some gas to do it, but it is still not a bad thing. Either way is ok with me.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Pepaw, One of our Wardens was recently (last couple of years) convicted of poaching. He was a long time Warden in this area. Could be justice for more than a wise crack. Where did you hunt in Duval. I used to live in Benavides and my family has owned property there since 1903.

Alan

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I'll concede on the CWD point. IF that is indeed one of the Check criteria then perhaps I wouldn't mind it myself.

Alan

[GF.]

CO, you never had to check anything, at least not in the years & units that I ever hunted. MN had a mandatory check-in, at least during the CF season, which wasn't that bad a deal, but maybe only because it was directly on the way home--right alongside the little 2-lane highway we took--and it was usually well below freezing anyway. Spoilage was never a problem, and we normally didn't get them home and skinned for several days, so it ddn't matter if they froze with the hides on because that was gonna happen either way. And CT used to be mandatory for everybody during firearms seasons (CF or ML) but DIY by mail for archery purposes... For the coming season, I think you only have to check in if you want a replacement doe tag, though of course I'm going to make sure that I know what the rules are before I head into the field :D


JMO, mandatory check-ins really suck from a hunter's perpective. In CT, they wanted the animal intact (gutted is OK), but the shops that served as the check stations had such limited hours (never open on Sundays) that you were really hosed if you got caught out late. Think about shooting a deer at the end of legal hours on a Saturday and being required to keep it hide-on and in one piece until you could get the animal to the check station on Monday, likely having had to take time off of work to get there... :mad: Between spoilage in warm weather and having to grunt the hide off after the whole carcass has gotten well-cooled, it's a pretty bad deal all around...

On the other hand, keeping an eye on the success rates and seeing what people are actually dragging out of the woods should give the deer managers a pretty decent idea of what's out there, especially if they're recording age class, points, beam diameters, body weights, sex ratios, etc.

So I understand the need for good data, but I do believe that the hunters can provide the vast majority of what's needed (apart from accurate body weights) without requiring a fairly wide detour on the way home from the field or forcing somebody to leave a carcass hair-on over the weekend in 60-degree or warmer weather.

CWD checks are a whole different can o' worms. When you look at how WI reacted (or overreacted, depending on whom you ask) to their CWD 'outbreak', you can easily understand the desire for good, accurate data and as broad a sampling as possible, but that's something that ought to be possible without requiring that you check in the entire carcass before butchering the rest of the critter, wouldn't you think?

Anyway, on the whole, I'm happier without the check stations. It's not as if the actual Poachers are going to stop in and ask to get themselves arrested, so from an enforcement standpoint, it seems that they'd really only be able to 'catch' people who had made dumb or ignorant mistakes...

All that said, I do kind of enjoy the collection of metal tags that I've accumulated since I moved out here. Apart from one hair-on Elk hide from that big cow, I haven't ever had anything mounted, so they're sort of my 'trophy' collection and it's almost a little bit of a shame that I won't be collecting any more.

But I'll take the extra time and convenience and call it a good trade :cool:

[Little Buck]

From Virginia here. We went to tele-check a few years ago. We also still have the option of using a check station (for now).

There's no doubt it is super convenient and is a quick source of data for the DGIF (Department of Game and Inland Fisheries). However, there is also no doubt that some people don't check what they shoot. I don't know that this is anything that hadn't went on before though.

My big concern with VA is that when we purchase our license online, the copy is sent to us via email as a PDF file. We print the license and we're good to go. What we do when he kill a deer (bear and turkey also) is cut a notch on the tag we intend to use. We then check it and get a check number which is entered onto the license on the tag that has had the notch cut out. At that point, that tag is considered used and is no longer valid.

The problem is that a person can go back and reprint the PDF. Then they have a license with no harvests on it. Now let's say they killed a deer, notched their tag and took the deer home. They are supposed to tele-check it. They don't check it. They butcher the deer, and reprint their license. Viola....they now have a new complete set of tags.

LB

[southtexas]

Wow, so you can basically print as many tags as you want! Sounds like a pretty big loophole in the regs to me!

[GF.]

And in VA, it'll hardly make a dent in the herd :eek:

I don' know.... Is it better to inconvenience all the honest guys just so the poachers have one more regulation to ignore?:confused:

[Sabre]

[QUOTE There were lot's of "folks" who were getting it even cheaper with one 22 lr behind the ear. Those days are gone for the most part. Welfare took care of the need for cheap meat and skinning out and cutting up a deer is a lot more trouble than picking up a sirloin on the "Lone Star Card".
[/QUOTE]

You'd be WAY WRONG about that here. There are lots of backwoods families who still eat fresh venison year round in some rural areas of NY. Poaching is a family tradition passed from generation to generation in some area's around here. We have a call in system here but it's voluntary and there's no penalty if you fail to do it.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

You may be right Sabre. There are still some families that eat lots of deer meat, and javalina and hog here too but their numbers have dropped drastically in recent years. We have begun generational welfare in South Texas and it does not necessarily follow racial or ethnic lines. There is an increasing number of people who just flat wouldn't know (or care) what to do with a deer hindquarter if it was laying on the kitchen counter. Even right here in the town where I live. I cleaned out my freezer one year and drove around trying to give 1 yr old frozen deer meat away. No body wanted it. I finally found a guy who makes dehydrator jerky and now I take him all I don't want and a good bit on yearly freezer clean out day, but he is the only one.

A voluntary call in with no penalty. I am surprised to hear of something in NY State that I like.

Alan

[Twanger]

I like the automated check-in by computer or phone.

Poachers will not check deer no matter what, so it doesn't matter if honest people physically check the deer in, or do it by phone.

I believe the convenience will make it more likely that some hunters will check in a deer. There's a scenario that's a pain in the ass with the physical check-in requirement.... Imagine that it's late September and HOT. You kill a deer with your bow just before dark, and finally recover it around 11pm. Check-in station is closed that night. To keep it from spoiling you take it to the walk-in cooler. You have work the next day. Next morning you're obliged to haul that bloody deer back into your truck, take it to the check-in station, haul it out, check it, then back in the truck & back to the cooler. It's a royal pain in the rump. Contrast that with firing up the computer that night when you get home and entering the kill. No contest! I'm pretty sure that some people would simply not check the deer the next morning with a physical check-in requirement because it's such a pain, but they would check it if they could simply do it by computer or phone.

[DaveHawk]

I'm with Twanger. Late evening deer retrievals , no problem, # is logged into my phone.

[Renegade]

I haven't had to use it yet but it's finally coming. In Pa we've always had the report card system in which you send in a postage paid addressed postcard, that came with your general license, within 10 days of a harvest for deer or turkey. (We have check stations for bears)
The problem with it is hunter compliance, as is with any system, even though it takes all of 4 minutes to do. It is easy to forget to send in your card, especially when there is, in reality, no penalty unless you get caught, then it's $25. Not much incentive. And the PGC has never really pursued violations of this type. Slowly over time the reporting rate has decreased to in the neighborhood of 40% from it's once mid 60's rate. It varies based on antlered, antlerless, and season too. The method of using reporting cards and rates is a valid one which has been peer reviewed, see here http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/deer/pdf/reporting_rate_variability.pdf , but the rate of reporting is low.

The Point of Sale (POS) licensing system just finally went online Monday, 2 years behind schedule. This allows computerization of all license sales and personal info., so it's only another step to be able to offer Tele-chek. Hopefully it will be online for use next year. The paper card system will still be used jointly along with it at least for the first couple years. I think between telechek and online reporting options, we will get a higher compliance rate, and hence a more accurate harvest estimate. What's amazing is that some hunters complain that it's just a guess and they don't have any idea, but yet these are the same people who either refuse to send in a card or send in one with false info on it!

I would also like to see more voluntary checkstations to collect additional biological data on harvests. Right now the PGC personnel examine roughly 30-50,000 deer at processors thruout the state. Some local QDMA chapters and a co-op from the Allegheny Nat'l. Forest are the only ones who do checkstations but I'd like to see more to collect biological data. Every bit helps.

[ncboman]

Poachers will not check deer no matter what

oh yes they will and do.

Some years back when the limit here was five, I killed 56deer and every one of them was registered to someone. The local boys may kill over the limits but all deer get registered. It's just too easy not to do it and once a deer is registered, you're covered.

I like the telecheck system. :)

ncboman

[dave-t.]

And you still probably had a tag left in your name, incase you were checked in the field. :rolleyes:

Not all poachers wait for the season to come in. One that I used to know would swear that "in season" was the worst time to poach, but he always had at least one unfilled tag on him during the season.

[MOGC]

oh yes they will and do.

Some years back when the limit here was five, I killed 56deer and every one of them was registered to someone. The local boys may kill over the limits but all deer get registered. It's just too easy not to do it and once a deer is registered, you're covered.

I like the telecheck system. :)

ncboman


Probably a more accurate statement would have been, "Criminals will always be criminals regardless..."

[ncboman]

Probably a more accurate statement would have been, "Criminals will always be criminals regardless..."

Your statement can be proven inaccurate by some of the members here on this site. :)

ncboman

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I have no ideer what you're talkin about!?!?!:rolleyes:

Alan

[Sabre]

Your statement can be proven inaccurate by some of the members here on this site. :)

ncboman

I resemble that remark !;) There were years I filled several freezers with venison yet still had my own tag unfilled at the end. We live and learn and hopefully grow.

[ncboman]

Nothing like kids to turn a guy around. :)

ncboman

[BILL K]

Calling them in makes life easier, but no system will ever have 100% compliance.
As to poaching, with the economy circling the drain the way it has been we'll be seeing a lot more mystery meat on peoples tables.

[purple heart]

I don't mind the mandatory checks we have to do here in VT. during rifle
season and ml season because it's usually cold enough not to have to
worry about spoilage. It's during bow season that the mandatory checks become a pain in the butt. Like others have said, when you hit a deer just
before dark and recovery isn't until after check stattions are closed then
you have to keep the deer cooled down until the next morning. We don't
have access to walk in coolers. Call in checks would be nice for this season.