What Went Wrong- PICS

[LampLighter]

Now that I got my treestand buck, I set up a duplication of a shot where I lost a deer this past December. A medium amount of bright red blood, but trailed over 400 yards in a sage.scrub brush area, eventually no more blood. Non-recovery.

The shot was high in a climber (27 feet approx.) with the deer broadside approx. 15 yards away from the base of the tree.

I remember the event clearly, and I duplicated it here today. My top pin is dead on at 20 yards on the ground. That I know. Back in December, I know that I aimed between the spine and the center of the chest. That is where I goofed.

I did not know about angles causing high hits. I had never trained for this until now. The second arrow from the top is duplication of where my arrow likely hit.

The two arrows close together in the right spot are what I learned this morning. They were accomplished by placing the green pin (top) under the deer, just under like if you were going to graze the skin.

NOW I Know. At these angles, AIM LOW

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/003-1.jpg


http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/002.jpg


Here is an on-scene pic taken that day:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/008.jpg


What is ironic is that back in the 80's , due to the video Bowhunting October Whitetails we all learned to aim low. Mr. Wensel had slow motion photography of a deer reacting to a bow being shot- straight down with arrows flying over the deer. But now with the technology of quietness and speed, such as the BowTech Alligence in the above pics, really that habit got washed out of our training. Remember, back then Rick Blaze and the Wensel guy were shooting Oneida Eagles, a noisy bow indeed.

I hope I have shared some information with yall that can be of some help. Just like turkey hunting, I feel you must analyze what went wrong, and tell yourself, " Ok, next time, I'll ...... " If you just blow it off, you may repeat it.

[Bushman]

The buck that ended my bow hunting was hit in the same place. High in the lung area and below the spine. Three of us and a dog looked for that deer all day long and only found one drop of blood. You are probably using a fast enough bow that the deer won't jump the string, but a lot of times they duck down before they run and an arrow goes high. There seems to be a lot of thicker tissue up that high too and it takes the steam out of an arrow pretty quickly. I did not get complete penetration on that deer and I think that the arrow helped plug up the hole so that all the bleeding was internal.

[LampLighter]

I understand. I had a Magnus Stinger that was ultra sharp, and my finished arrow weight is 440 grains. + - 2. I recovered the aluminum arrow broken in two not far at all, but both halves apart from each other.

If any of you guys have not watched that 80's video, it is on DVD now .

3 Rivers Archery has it.

[GF.]

JMO, the two lower hits are too low. They look like you'll only get 1 lung and if you get heart with that, you may either butterfly the whole thing (good) or just graze it (NOT good).

It would help a lot if you were to do it again, and take a fresh set of pics from directly in front of the animal at brisket height. That'll show you exactly what I'm talking about.

As a matter of fact - why don't you challenge yourself to a little fancy-shootin' and stack your shafts at 2" intervals from top to bottom? Then I can pull it ansd show you exactly what I'm on about....

[LampLighter]

Also. I goofed in the tracking. From blood patterns, I realized that I was bumping the deer as I tracked. Now I also know to go take a walk- go eat my MRE. Take a break. Then take up the trail.

I am learning. Been bowhunting since 1981, and am still learning. Have quite a few bow kills, but I still want to learn to avoid losses.

[bugsNbows]

Gravity will effect the arrows less when shot at steep angles. I always aim low from treestands OR I re-set my pins (at the treestand height to be dead on) before I go out. I have also used pendulum sights with success.

[Bushman]

GF, I would take either of those two lower arrow hits before I would want one of those upper ones. Even with one lung, the exit would be low enough on the body to give a guy a good blood trail. Even if you don't get that far lung, you have punched a big hole in the h/l area ahead of the diaphragm and that deer will not be able to pull a vacuum to inflate the lungs. A sucking chest wound called pneumothorax. It will be a real sick animal that would bed down pretty quickly if you don't chase it.

With a bullet that second arrow from the top is an instant drop because of the shock to the spine. Not so with an arrow.

[GF.]

Bushie - total agreement as to which I'd prefer among those choices pictured :cool:

And when I went back and looked at it again, the two lowers are not quite as low as I think I thought I thought that they were... maybe. :o

That's the damnedest thing about all of this - just a minor change in the point of view can make the good look bad and the bad look good. That's why it would be really helpful to have the additional pix that I suggested :D

[LampLighter]

I had already pulled the arrows by the time you requested the frontal pic. But it is easy to see your point.

[ncboman]

:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Bowseason%2007/102207141r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Bowseason%2007/102207147r.jpg

^ #166 entry ... 18yds (I placed the arrow to show shot angle)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Bowseason%2007/102207126r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Bowseason%2007/102207128r.jpg

^ #167 exit ... 16yds

both shot from my climber about 23ft up.

[LampLighter]

nice eating nc. I would have made cajun sausage :D . Anyway, we were discussing shooting deer from steep angles broadside with the deer close to the base of the tree you are in. Say, 27 to 30 ft up.

What's your scoop on this type of shot. As you can decipher from the above discussions, I showed that the arrow hits higher than the point of aim. You must aim low.

[ncboman]

I hit both of those a little higher than I wanted.

Can anyone remember ever hitting one too low?

ncboman

[Twanger]

I hit higher more often than I hit low.

Those two high shots are in the spine (or close enough), and would probably drop the deer right on the spot, but you'd need a quick finisher. I'm ALWAYS mentally prepared for a quick second shot... needing one about 20% or the time.

Shots typically hit high on close range shots because you're probably not bending at the waist enough. (I don't always remember to do it either) The bow-arm should make a right-angle with your body, and if the angle is narrower than that the inclination is to have your bow recoil up and for the shot to hit high. Add 2 inches for that, and another 1-2 inches because an arrow will high high at 15 yards if you're using your 20-yard pin.

If I'm shooting at deer from a high stand at ranges of 10-15 yards I will aim an inch below center-line on the deer, and the arrow usually hits about 2-3 inches above that, resulting in a pretty decent hit above center-line of the animal.

If the down-angle is 45 degrees, for example 10 yards away and 10 yards up in the tree, I consider it too steep to shoot. You margin for error is basically zero.

[dave-t.]

I can't say that I've shot one to low with a bow. I have come real close with a gun though.

From looking at the first pic, I'd call the second from the top arrow a spine (or very close) hit, the top arrow being on or over the spine. I hit a doe just a hair below that second arrow in 2007 from 7yrds, and she dropped from a hit centered high on a rib, high double lung, dead before I got my feet on the ground.

Looking at the angle of the target from the stand, I'd have to be 7-9yds from the deer at the elevation I hunt to get that angle, I only hunt at around 15'.

From 10-20yds I aim for the back of the heart just behind the front leg. If you end up 2-3" high, you still have a good hit annd exit.

The funky shots are 0-8yds. The angle of the sight plane, and arrow trajectory are at pretty steep angles here, and there is a difference in aim for a 5yd shot vrs. an 10yd shot. 5yd shot hits low, 10yds shot hits high, using the 20yd pin.

I'd say the hardest shot for an average bow hunter is a 4-5yrd quartering to shot. All kinds of ways to screw up a seemingly easy shot.

[GF.]

I don't think of 'quartering-to' as an 'easy' shot, myself. Too much bone in the way....

Bt those steep angles.... Form ain't the end of it

Even if you hit where you want to, the point about 45 degrees being a practical upper limit is well-made. I even cobbled together an image, but now I can't figure out posting it.....:confused:

Anyway, you get steeper than 45 degrees and you start missing one lung or the other. Doesn't seem too tough to work around, though - if you want to be 30 feet up, why not just set up 15 yards off of where you expect the deer to show up? And if they come by inside o' that, why not just wait 'em out and let 'em get out a little farther?

[GF.]

How 'bout dis?

3 shots all at 'zactly 45 degrees, and if you get any steeper, things really don't look too good....

[dave-t.]

I see your point, but a deer ain't getting away with any of those hits.

It can get even more complicated when you throw in body angles too. Another thing is that the spine dips aweful low up towards the neck and shoulders.

[GF.]

Nope, none of those are survivable in the least... But try putting a line through there at anything steeper than the 45 degrees shown, and things just suddenly don't look so good

[Smokey]

I'm a ground hunter so do not have to worry much about the high angle shots. As my boys tell me I give up a lot of shots but that is OK.

This is a very good post along with the good pics.

[GF.]

I much prefer hunting on the ground, but there's just not enough room to do it effectively up here.

And deer movements are so concentrated that if you're going to hunt a funnel, you may as well do it from a place where you won't stink up the joint. Sure, I could hunt other parts of the property to which I do have access, but aren't we supposed to hunt for them where they are? :D

[ncboman]

Doan put too much into double lung shots. There's a mass of arteries just above the heart that are always freezer tickets regardless.

Here's what I consider an almost perfect hit on an 8yd broadside shot from about 16ft floorheight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/2005%20kills/110505037r.jpg
^ entry

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/2005%20kills/110505034r.jpg
^ exit

Even hit like that, these deer seldom make for a short track job because the bow going off so close turns them inside out.

When one is almost under me, I get torn on making a spine shot or slippin off to one side just a bit. I've done both and kinda favor the spine shot for the action/excitement and keeping the deer in fair play territory. I've never lost a deer to a spine shot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Kill%20pics/Spine_shot_2.jpg
^ Only day I've ever doubled with spine shots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Kill%20pics/Spineshot1rehr.jpg
^ Another. Those were the days.

Back to Billy's pics,

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/003-1.jpg

the top arrow is clearly too high. The 2nd arrow from top almost looks like it might go under the spine. I'd consider the seam in the target about perfect for a spiner at that angle.

ncboman

[pepaw]

That is exactly the last shot I took before I quit bowhunting. All my fault for not aiming lower, but it was very disappointing to wound that buck.

My gun killed buck this year had pieces of an arrow and broadhead through his backstrap, beneath the spine and lodged in the other ribcage. I didn't know he was wounded when I shot, but it was apparently going to survive.
Poor rascal had to be in pain.

Thanks for the photos and shot recreation.

pepaw

[ncboman]

I'm a ground hunter so do not have to worry much about the high angle shots. As my boys tell me I give up a lot of shots but that is OK.

This is a very good post along with the good pics.

thanks. I/we enjoy these threads. :)

You may not have to consider those angles but you have angles nontheless. When I was a boy I thought I could kill the moon and couldn't kill squat. :D

Interestingly, a good number of deer I've killed while ground hunting were spine shots. I'd like to take credit but actually every one was just luck. :D

One year way back I killed 3 with a recurve and spined every one. :confused:

ncboman

[ncboman]

That is exactly the last shot I took before I quit bowhunting. All my fault for not aiming lower, but it was very disappointing to wound that buck.

My gun killed buck this year had pieces of an arrow and broadhead through his backstrap, beneath the spine and lodged in the other ribcage. I didn't know he was wounded when I shot, but it was apparently going to survive.
Poor rascal had to be in pain.

Thanks for the photos and shot recreation.

pepaw

I submit deer do not feel or react to what we consider pain the same as we might relate.

I think it has something to do with their teeth because I believe dogs and hogs feel things much like we do. ... but their teeth are different. :rolleyes:

ncboman

[LampLighter]

Nope, none of those are survivable in the least...


I agree. I figured it died in that sage somewhere. I could not find it. In addition to the angle shot training, I am embedding the tracking lesson learned in my instincts too. Next time I will wait, because it did lay up 2x on me and I pushed it. I didn't see it but you can tell the deer was in a thicket pile with a pool of ...... . The important thing is I'm learning so as not to repeat it.


I tracked it all through this old CRP

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/P1020021.jpg

[GF.]

Doan put too much into double lung shots. There's a mass of arteries just above the heart that are always freezer tickets regardless.

Here's what I consider an almost perfect hit on an 8yd broadside shot from about 16ft floorheight.

That bunch of arteries.... Kind of a different kind of a Top-Knot, I guess you could say...

Yep, that shot's such a beauty it's kinda hard to look at! And 8 yards out bein' 24 feet, vs. you bein' less than 8 feet tall puts you somewhere in the 'under 45 degrees of angle' bracket, and that vastly simplifies your life by making it substantially easier to get two solid lung hits.

Thing is, though, if your shot should strike a little bit aft of that aortic top-knot and you only get one lung... well, then what?

I'm not gonna say that I don't 'believe in' that supposed spine-lung gap, because I know fer a damn fact that there ain't no such thang. On the other hand, enough folks have had animals run very long distances on a high lung shot to make this one of the more durable myths in all of hunting lore.

And frankly, if an animal couldn't survive an injury that basically wrecked one lung, then none of us would have two lungs in the first place. No advantage. And most of us know that in addition to having a right lung and a left lung, they're also compartmentalized into lobes - 3 on each side in deer (in case you're wondering, yeah, I had to look up how many :o )

But why bother dividing the lungs into lobes when more oxygen exchanging surface area could probably (otherwise) fit into the same volume? Well, if the damage is restricted to a single lobe, survivability is probably actually pretty good. And while looking for the number of lobes, I came across an anecdotal account of a guy who made a 'perfect' 6th rib broadside on a buck that R-U-N-N-O-F-T on him. The same guy shot the same deer a week later, and the wound was apparently healing fine--the arrow having passed through the seams between lobes...

Flukey shot, obviously, but how many times would it have to happen before anybody would be able to take the same animal a week later? One more argument for more than 2 blades on your broadheads, I guess ;)


So anywho... I'll take a treestand shot at under 45 degrees any time I can get it, but I'm with Twang on the idea that anything steeper can cause you some headaches....

[pepaw]

I submit deer do not feel or react to what we consider pain the same as we might relate.

I think it has something to do with their teeth because I believe dogs and hogs feel things much like we do. ... but their teeth are different. :rolleyes:

ncboman

I am only going by how many aches and pains I have in the morning without a graphite shaft through my back. And he was 7.5 years old. I figure about my age in deer years!

pepaw

[LampLighter]

nc

those look like your arrows in that foam deer. :p

[ncboman]

nc

those look like your arrows in that foam deer. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/2005%20kills/110505032r.jpg

almost. :D

ncboman

[GF.]

Nah....

Bowman's arrows would've been a lot closer together :D:D:D:D

[Twanger]

A couple of years ago Bill Winke discussed shot angle on deer in a Petersen's Bowhunting article. He said the if the deer is very close, say 5-8 yards, and facing straight-away you can shoot them just in front of the hip (aiming for the heart) and angle the arrow forward through the spine, diaphragm, liver, lungs, and heart. This is a devastating hit.

I've used it exactly one time in 100+ deer and that deer ran zero yards. :D I used it because I had a hunting buddy on the ground 40 yards from the deer, and the deer was about to flee. I knew it was "now or never."

I may consider this shot again in the future, but much prefer the double-lung shot.

[GF.]

If you center the spine, I guess the rest of that stuff is a moot point, but I don't see how you'd do a great job on both lungs by sending one right down the middle...

And FWIW, I'll pass on anything that's foreseeably going to cause a bleed behind the diaphragm. As a rule, anyway...Too close to paunch.

But if it's the only shot you've got and it's an animal you really, really want, I guess it's as clean a kill as any. At least in the 'humane' sense. Maybe not so much in the 'sanitary' sense :rolleyes:

[Twanger]

If you center the spine, I guess the rest of that stuff is a moot point, but I don't see how you'd do a great job on both lungs by sending one right down the middle...


As Winke says in his article you won't get two lungs with this shot, but as NCBowman pointed out that is not always required.... (but it sure is reliable!)

[ncboman]

(in small print) a very reliable shot is right thru the ham but we NEVER see it discussed on talk forums. :rolleyes:

ncboman

[LampLighter]

Bowman's arrows would've been a lot closer together


:p:p:p:p:p



http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/002-1.jpg

[LampLighter]

I climbed the same height ( could see old stand marks). This time I had the treestand buck staked out closer to the tree, so the shot was almost straight down, but not quite.

I was very surprised that the first shot, even though I aimed just under the deer like before, hit high. I ended up aiming 8 inches under the deer to hit the heart, or the lower half of the vital section. I aimed one arrow at his front hoof and it sank through the heart, or what would be just in front of the heart.

I am glad I am doing this. Been bowhunting since 82 and never knew this. I never used to climb that high neither. This summertime training is helping alot. I never had a 3d target before either.

[ncboman]

I am glad I am doing this. Been bowhunting since 82 and never knew this. I never used to climb that high neither. This summertime training is helping alot. I never had a 3d target before either.


The 3d is very educational for shooting from above. Now you see why I'm almost anal about precision shooting. :)

[My buddy]

WOW

[ncboman]

:p:p:p:p:p



http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/manygobbles/002-1.jpg


nice shot ... I hope. :)

[LampLighter]

That was my first robin hood. I shot it at 30 yards on Sept. 6, 1997 . I remember because I had just come back from burying my mom, and I did not care about too much. I guess it took away all the fear of " is grip too tight, follow through, " and all the other crap we think about at full draw.

[LampLighter]

I shot late yesterday evening, just when the fiber optics were fading, and again I waited for daylight this morning, shooting as it progressed. Same situation, high angle. I think I got the idea now :)

[ncboman]

I went out to shoot this morning about daylight and the skeeters ran me back inside. :eek:

[My buddy]

So you are practicing a shot that you should most likely pass on anyway?

[ncboman]

So you are practicing a shot that you should most likely pass on anyway?

puttin out a lotta line, ain't ya? :D

[My buddy]

Sure, why not.

[ncboman]

:)

Here's one I passed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/RopeLicker.jpg

The deer, not the shot.

:D

[My buddy]

Good idea.

Its pretty hard to get two lungs with that angle.

[ncboman]

:rolleyes:

doan have to get two lungs to kill a deer. Doan even have to get one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Kill%20pics/Spineshot1rehr.jpg

just gotta know where the arrow's goin.

;)

[My buddy]

:rolleyes:

doan have to get two lungs to kill a deer. Doan even have to get one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Kill%20pics/Spineshot1rehr.jpg

just gotta know where the arrow's goin.

;)

Sure you could put one in the ear too, but most likely that isn't going to happen that often.

I guess I have always been more concerned with quick kills and recoveries, rather than trying to extend my extend my shooting distance or take less "reliable" shots.

Even though you want an arrow to go somewhere doesn't mean it is going to happen that way or that the deer is going to cooperate. I don't know of another shot that offers as much "room for error" (or the unknown) as the broadside lung shot.

Also, for all the deer that lamplighter "passes" on, why take a "risky" shot? Let him walk out a little further to reduce the angle or even hunt lower to reduce the steep angle.

[LampLighter]

puttin out a lotta line, ain't ya? :D



Yeah, the city boy is putting out just enough to hang himself with.

[ncboman]

Yeah, the city boy is putting out just enough to hang himself with.

I dunno. He seems like a good enough fella. :)

[LampLighter]

No. You don't appear someplace new, and immediately start antagonizing veteran members. That is the activity of what I have preached about for some time of what I dubbed " The Punk generation." You and I grew up with respect for those who climbed a ladder when we were at the bottom rung. We earned our way in life to climb the ladder. This individual like many of the new generation ( those about 26 yrs old right now) really honestly believe they are entitled to things you and I had to work for and earn.

Anybody can sit behind a keyboard anywhere in the world and act like he does. It could be a pimple faced kid in New Jersey. But in real life, these boys around here would adjust his attitude quick. That is the significance of reality vs. computer forums.

[ncboman]

Who says he's new here?

Could be Clifford maybe. :rolleyes:

He posted he kills about a dozen deer a yr so even if he's hunting city deer, a certain amount of stealth and effort is acknowleged.

It's been a while since I bowkilled 12deer in a year. How bout you? :)

[Twanger]

It's a lot of danged work to kill 12 deer In a season iffn you butcher them all yourself.:D

MyBuddy seems alright... He's just trying to see what we're all about.

[My buddy]

Hang myself???....please...

Newbie???..I have already told you that is not the case...

I will admit, some of the areas I hunt have large numbers of deer, but, they are public tracts that receive quite a bit of pressure. Other areas I hunt the numbers are lower and the pressure higher, I do well in both cases. In all honesty, I don't really consider bowhunting difficult, then again I enjoy both archery and hunting.

BTW, when did 350 post become a "veteran" member???

Are you seriously comparing internet post counts to hard work and work ethic???? La...La..Loser!

I remember a time when people didn't think that responding to a few questions on an internet forum would make people respect them more. Or, exclude their comments from scrutiny.

Where and when I grew up, respect was earned not given and with your self serving comments about crossbow hunting, you gained no respect from me.

Now if you are saying that I don't have a point with my comment on your practicing shots you shouldn't take, then say that and explain yourself, don't just throw around a few idle threats that do nothing more than increase your post count and lead you to believe you deserve more respect.

[LampLighter]

He is not Clifford. Cliff is from right up the road in MS. Cliff would clobber this knucklehead.

[My buddy]

It's a lot of danged work to kill 12 deer In a season iffn you butcher them all yourself.:D

MyBuddy seems alright... He's just trying to see what we're all about.

I do butcher my deer and a few others along the way. Without doing my own my wallet would be at least $750 lighter....lol.

Because I do take a fair number of deer a year, even butchering is not that much of a chore. Skinning and boning out a deer on the day of kill hardly takes a 1/2 hour. The next day maybe an hour to grind, cut and package.

Thanks for the welcome....and btw I saw what you were all about, screwing with me, with the "quartering away" shot thread.....LOL:D

[My buddy]

He is not Clifford. Cliff is from right up the road in MS. Cliff would clobber this knucklehead.

Knucklehead? Already resorting to name calling?

I expected more from a "veteran"

[ncboman]

Cliff would clobber this knucklehead.

I doan think Clifford roams the net lookin for people to clobber. :D

Most of us here just like huntin with bows and arrows. In my travels bowhunters are usually the most trustworthy of sportsmen and are generally of high quality character.

I doan understand this 'us vs them' mentality. :confused:

You sometimes post like a cop with a bad attitude. :(

:rolleyes:

[ncboman]

I do butcher my deer and a few others along the way. Without doing my own my wallet would be at least $750 lighter....lol.

tell me about it.

I know friends of mine have deer 'processed' and that's fine but I honestly could never see me paying someone to do something with less care, knowledge, and quality than I can do for myself. ... not to mention taking three or more times longer than it really takes to do it. I think guys that learn to reduce their own and make a habit of it, can put a deer in the freezer before another guy can get a deer checked in with a processor.

Course I'm from a hunting family and we always made taking game down an important part of the hunting. I mean the hi-quality groceries are the whole point of hunting to begin with. :D

[LampLighter]

I doan think Clifford roams the net lookin for people to clobber.



Like I said before. Anybody pimple faced kid from Jersey can post anything. I was talking about here in our parts. Cliff is from right up the road here. Anybody can post anything on a web forum. In person though, Buddy's unearned assertions wouldn't be tolerated here in McComb, MS or Deville, LA. That is the plain truth. So what goes on here ( the forum) doesn't mean anything. An as far as the cop comment, I have advised you several times about those self prophecies. You can make yourself see whatever you want to see. I assume the new guy is posting here- I don't know. I have blocked him. nc, you know better than to fall for the sheep group. You used to be on top of that, way back when we were on a shared server. I think the forum has crashed and started over, what, 2x since then. That's what I am talking about. These new kids don't have a clue how long we all have been talking here.

[ncboman]

:)

How long we've been here and/or post count has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or verasity of someone else's posts. I know a lot of good bowhunters that have never posted on a talk forum. :rolleyes:

I know this. I would enjoy shooting with anyone/everyone here, if for no other reason than to prove in real life I'm not just blowin smoke on the internet. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Ohio%20bucks%202006/2006Ohiohuntcamp194r.jpg

neither is Twanger;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Ohio%20bucks%202006/2006Ohiohuntcamp004reh.jpg

It's so easy, a caveman can do it. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Archery/S5300290.jpg

:)

[LampLighter]

I see nothing wrong with yall getting together.

Just me, personally,
to prove I absolutely have no interest in proving anything, other than that time they didn't believe the shots I pulled off with the Marlin 60ss. With that, money talks & BS walks. Simple as that.

I see it different, because in real life I see it. Talking about your opinion on new vs veteran, senority in life. Do you know that in real life, I have heard quite a few entitlement generation kids actually say that they cannot be seen by their friends doing any kind of manual labor. One of them ducked down and hid. Can you believe that. And they want the same things WE sweated, worked long hours for. Some actually believe they are due or entitled these things. Mind blowing unbelievable. That is where I get my senority ideas from.

[ncboman]

I absolutely have no interest in proving anything, other than that time they didn't believe the shots I pulled off with the Marlin 60ss. With that, money talks & BS walks. Simple as that.

ahh, you're willing to prove what you feel good at ... :rolleyes:

Well if you doan feel comfy with your bow, I'll let you use your .22. You'll still have your hands full. :p :eek: :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Kill%20pics/Spine_shot_3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Kill%20pics/Our_deer---_experimental_020.jpg

have bow will travel. :D

[LampLighter]

When one is secure in life, he/she does not have to repeatedly try to prove it to the crowd. Often he/she attempts to be the "highlight" of the party. Don't think I didn't notice when I posted a pic of the foam deer with the arrows in it, you had to post repeated pics of dead deer, then "restore" the thread by "reposting" the foam deer pic . I have no bones to pick with you nc. But I did notice that. Besides, people like my thread. I got 808 views so far. Did you pick up on my slick, subtle reply which went something like this: " looks like some good eating, but now back to the topic, we were discussing angles..... what's your take." I separated the two like the dead deer were irrelavant to the topic. Slick ha.

[ncboman]

slick. :)

[My buddy]

Like I said before. Anybody pimple faced kid from Jersey can post anything. I was talking about here in our parts. Cliff is from right up the road here. Anybody can post anything on a web forum. In person though, Buddy's unearned assertions wouldn't be tolerated here in McComb, MS or Deville, LA. That is the plain truth. So what goes on here ( the forum) doesn't mean anything. An as far as the cop comment, I have advised you several times about those self prophecies. You can make yourself see whatever you want to see. I assume the new guy is posting here- I don't know. I have blocked him. nc, you know better than to fall for the sheep group. You used to be on top of that, way back when we were on a shared server. I think the forum has crashed and started over, what, 2x since then. That's what I am talking about. These new kids don't have a clue how long we all have been talking here.

Please elaborate on my "unearned assertions", mind you I have the same philosophy be it on the internet or in person. And when I speak my mind I don't do it in riddles and rhymes talking of "sheep" and "self prophecies", I just speak what is on my mind.

It is obvious that you have some type of superiority complex, first you whine like a child about people using crossbows, now you what to limit what "newbie's" are allowed to comment on. Get over yourself.

[My buddy]

And some pics.....

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/xcalstud/IMG_0494.jpg


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/xcalstud/MVC-204Fresize.jpg

[LampLighter]

This message is hidden because My buddy is on your ignore list.


This is all I see now. What ??? :p

[ncboman]

And some pics.....

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/xcalstud/IMG_0494.jpg


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/xcalstud/MVC-204Fresize.jpg

very nice. :)

[My buddy]

This is all I see now. What ??? :p


Don't kid yourself, you know you can't help but looking at what I have said.



The following is your previous comment toward me...

"In conclusion then, let me say to the rookie newcomer. Man, you don't want to butt heads with me. I'll disect every sentence you post and make you look silly. When you come after me, you really need to think. Do some research first and make sure that you are not putting foot before mouth, because I will catch you. You should be aware of Self-Fullfilling Prophecies. Those are where you are so mentally sure that a particular outcome is going to happen from a given event, that in reality, when that outcome fails to occur, your mind makes you see it as having occured indeed."

I'm still waiting for the part where you catch me with my foot in my mouth and make me look silly.......:p

[ncboman]

And some pics.....

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/xcalstud/IMG_0494.jpg


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/xcalstud/MVC-204Fresize.jpg

:)

Black Widow?

[My buddy]

:)

Black Widow?

Good Eyes, most are not familiar with that model

[ncboman]

similar to their current one piece offering but your's is much prettier imo. :)

I mostly camp on my hunting adventures and have shared camps with several Black Widow shooters over the years. Kinda interesting to me and kinda unusual is the ... hmmm, how do I say without gettin too personal? ... the interesting people I meet behind the black widows ... :).

one trip I hunted the same woods with a couple of trad hunters camping nearby. Befriended one of them pretty well over several days and we got to shooting one day. Come to find out this guy was 2nd in command of the DNR for the entire state I was hunting in. :eek:

I figured I didn't have to worry about wardens huntin with him. :D

[My buddy]

similar to their current one piece offering but your's is much prettier imo. :)



The design is similar to their TF model, however, mine is actually of takedown design. Mine also lacks a wood handle.

The only bad thing about the bow, in my mind, is that finding a back-up is next to impossible.

[ncboman]

A backup bow is nice but it's kinda like a 2nd woman. ...more likely to get stolen when she's not in your hands and on trips that's always on your mind like a damn disease. :D

[ncboman]

Is it the bow or do I see limbsavers?

[My buddy]

A backup bow is nice but it's kinda like a 2nd woman. ...more likely to get stolen when she's not in your hands and on trips that's always on your mind like a damn disease. :D

:D

I guess your right, you love the first one, but the 2nd one will do the deed if the 1st one can't.

[My buddy]

Is it the bow or do I see limbsavers?

Yep, Limbsavers......please don't tell the Trad Police:eek:

[ncboman]

what's the topic of this thread?

oh yeah, shootin down on deer and hittin em good.

...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Bowseason%2007/102207147r.jpg

:)

[My buddy]

showoff!;)

What are those, Gateway barred feathers? Reflective tape?

Do you make your own arrows?

[ncboman]

showoff!;)

What are those, Gateway barred feathers? Reflective tape?

Do you make your own arrows?

Trueflight barred yellow, red reflector tape. ;)

yes,

The Trueflight barred feathers are prettier than Gateway ... but I ran low and I'm into my Gateways now. :o

Looks like you have/had some 4fletch?

[My buddy]

Trueflight barred yellow, red reflector tape. ;)

yes,

The Trueflight barred feathers are prettier than Gateway

looks like you have/had some 4fletch?

Thats what I meant to say.....Trueflight.....it's been a while since Ive ordered feathers. And you are right I like the pattern on the trueflights much better that the gateways. Also I found the bases on the trueflights to be superior in consistency when compared with the Gateways.

Yeah, 4 fletch, not only do I find that they stabalize quicker than a 3 fletch, more importantaly I don't have to concern myself with how I nock my arrow. They work real well stabilizing broadheads.

[ncboman]

Also I found the bases on the trueflights to be superior in consistency when compared with the Gateways.


I've read this on the internet frequently but comparing the 100 count bags of each I have in hand, if anything, the gateways are a little better in that regard. :)

[My buddy]

I've read this on the internet frequently but comparing the 100 count bags of each I have in hand, if anything, the gateways are a little better in that regard. :)

Wow I can't believe that. The groups that I had to compare the Trueflights were night and day better than the gateways. The Gateways were inconsistent in base thickness and width. Are few times they were so thick and stiff that when fletched with helical they didn't want to lay on the shaft and I would have to force and hold the feather with a toothpick until the glue held it.

I guess it is possible that I got an odd batch. Also, it has been around 4 years ( I buy in 100's and still have a surplus) since I have purchased, maybe the addressed the problem.