Feedback on 10mm GLOCK! [Archive] - HuntAmerica.com Talk Forums

TinStar

06-03-2009, 06:20 AM

Use to carry a .40 cal. Glock as a duty weapon. Some things I liked, others I didn't.
I still like the 1911 better for many reasons; one being officer safety. At least it gives you a better chance should someone take your gun away. When we used to be able to carry our choice(yes; that's how backward our dept. used to be!) I carried a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm and it was great and very, very accurate. Later it was found that they would develope very tiny cracks in the frame from the pounding. Newer ones are stronger, but rather pricey these days. I always found the 1911 to fit my hand better than many of the newer types of autos. Just my HO.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

Hi Ball

06-03-2009, 09:10 AM

Hi Ball

06-03-2009, 09:12 AM

Howdy I got a problem with my PC and cannot bring up those PM's being sent for some reason or another. I have a couple messages but can not reply because the system will not let me enter. It keeps kicking my password out for why I don't know.:)

MOGC

06-03-2009, 10:01 AM

Tin Star, yes I too like the feel of the 1911 model but since I have a tendency to forget things once in awhile and have NOT be indoctrinated to draw that 1911 out of holster with thumb always knocking off the safety first, as the pistol comes out of holster. I didn't want to end up pulling the trigger and NO BANG!!!;):)

I like the Sig Sauer in the 40 acp but tests have proven to me, they are not better than the old 1911 45 acp loaded hot and with 230 grain ammo. This is why I been kicking the 10mm around lately. The "wet newpaper test" doesn't doesn't take a ballistics specialist to figure out the results and what caliber penetrated the deepest and what bullet did in fact mushroom and stay together.

Most confrontations on the street happen fast! I don't want to give up a 1/2 second taking off a safety from my CCW pistol. This is were the GLOCKS, H&K'S and Sig Sauer's win out in my humble opinion. I now just need to find some good defense ammo in 10mm and I am good to go as far as having a STOPPER for defense!!!;):)

HiBall,
There is no problem or time lag with a handgun that has a safety if the person operating it is properly trained. That is not a gun problem - it is a shooter problem. A 1911 is faster and more accurate on that first shot in trained hands than those double action guns you mention above. The crisp, short, single action trigger pull of the 1911 make for good hits - fast. The long, draggy, heavy triggers of double action guns often throw that first shot somewhere into the wild blue yonder. First shot hits win gunfights... misses don't count except as negative liabilities.

The safety might just save your life if you are ever disarmed. Most street thugs are not well trained and their first impulse is to point the gun and pull the trigger. Guns with no safety will fire. Guns with a safety might give you enough time to regain the weapon, or access some sort of back-up weapon, or run like hell screaming like a school girl down the street (not a bad option in this case). Never think you cannot be disarmed because it can and does happen. 20% of trained police officers killed by gunfire loose their life by their own gun in disarmings. LEO's are taught weapon retention techniques, disarming techniques, and carry their weapons in sturdy duty holsters with retention devises, yet they too are killed with their own guns by thugs that somehow gained access to the cops gun.

One of the big magazine writers, maybe Massad Ayoob (?) did a test once in which he placed a variety of handguns on a table and had a target about ten feet away. He assembled a bunch of people with varying experiences with guns as testers and timed them as they grabbed each of the guns off the table, made it ready to fire, and then fired a shot into the target. Even the rankest newbie with zero experience could make a shot within a few seconds with revolvers and guns with no safties. Guns with a safety took a markedly longer time and some people never got a shot off as they struggled with the gun flipping this switch or that lever, pushing buttons, dropping magazines, ect. Just some food for thought.

GF.

06-03-2009, 10:26 AM

....or run like hell screaming like a school girl down the street (not a bad option in this case).

:D:D:D:D:D

ROF, man, ROF....

That's part of my thinking in the whole CCW thing... Since I'm never going to be professionally obligated to end a conflict the hard way, 'run like hell' (screaming optional ;) ) seems like it oughtta be my first and best answer whenever it's a possibility.

Hi Ball

06-03-2009, 09:45 PM

MO-GC.......Yep, I hear what your saying but you are not tuned in to why I am not carrying my 45's anymore. The simple reason is this, I don't remember to take the damn safety off the weapon!!! This has nothing to do with my training as it all started with Uncle Sam back in the mid-60's and I can assure you those instructors were top shelf back in those days.

I have several 1911's and they have now become pieces of art-work for me. I needed something with no bells or whistles on the pistol. No safety, no hammer, hell I wish I didn't have to pull the trigger to get it to fire, just blink my eyes perhaps.

I never understood how in the hell a policeman can get his gun taken from him on the street! I was always told of the training they take etc. So you tell me how does this happen? I mean what are the percentages on how the criminal or mugger gets the drop on the Cop?

I have 2 good friends of mine that are retired Hwy-Patrolman and I am sure going to ask them the same question this weekend. Whooooa, I can't because I am going to a highschool baseball game for state at Springfield. However, maybe I will just call them up on the phone and get the lowdown.

Remind me to tell you about the time I was somewhat mugged at the Loop in downtown Chicago at 1:30 in the morning, back in 1971 waiting for the L-Train. I still wear the scare of the razor that cut through my leather full length coat. Yeah, it was a 3 on one ordeal at first but they they soon saw the light and nobody got my money.

Now tell me GC, do they teach Cops how to protect themselves or what? Do they practice of just take a class once a year type deall? All these policeman who get shot with their own gun, is the criminal some kind of karate expert or ranked contender because I have a hard time understanding how somebody with a nightstick, mace and gun gets over powered on the street.

TinStar

06-04-2009, 07:05 AM

HiBall,

Losing one's gun can happen to a rookie or even an experienced street cop. When I started with the sheriff's dept. we had a trooper locally that was involved in a shooting. He and his partner had pulled over two guys that were suspects in a robbery that had just gone down, His partner lost his weapon to one of them. He in turn shot Skip(the other trooper) who was knocked down and returned fire; causing both dirtbags to crap their pants and give up. Skip was wearing a Seocnd Chance vest. At this time(mid 70's) they were not standard issue to NY troopers. Lots of the guys poked fun at Skip for wearing it; and he was also a dealer for the co. He didn't get many orders; but after that he couldn't keep up with it. A few short years later they had become issue items. Skip's partner was a veteran and in good shape and very strong. Many, many cops don't keep practicing hand to hand techniques because between the job, overtime, and trying to live a normal family life it's very, very tough to squeeze in. Also many local govs. don't want to pay overtime for repetitive training sessions.
As MOGC pointed out; once you really get used to the 1911 taking the safety off while drawing becomes second nature and he is 100% right about the first shot too. Trigger pull is constant throughtout all shots. I used to take the X-ring out with my Delta Elite and although I always qualified expert with the Glock it just wasn't anywhere near as good. Give me a 1911.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

GF.

06-04-2009, 10:43 AM

I guess this ties in with my preference for the 'run like hell' option...:D

As an arresting officer, you pretty much have to get your hands on the perp, right? That puts you within arm's length, and that makes it a lot easier for the Bad Guy to get his hands on your weapons (though I would assume that it's SOP, when patting down or cuffing a suspect, for a right-handed officer to immobilize the BG's right arm with the officer's left, so as to keep the wepps as far from the BG's free hand as possible).

Now, again, as someone under no professional obligation to get anywhere near that close to a bad guy, I'd think that I could make it a lot harder for him to get close to my weapon just by keeping some distance...

Somebody pointed out that a perp-type can close from 20 feet a lot quicker than you might think (certainly under a second)... That really helps me re-frame the whole question of how accessible a concealed piece needs to be...

MOGC

06-04-2009, 10:49 AM

Tonk err, I mean HiBall,
LOL... I "think" we are on the same page basically... maybe looking at it from different ends of the book. Here is what I'm trying to say, don't blame the 1911 for your failure to remember the safety and applaud the other designs as superior platforms. I understand why you like the "point and pull" guns (because you can't remember to disengage the safety of a gun with a such a devise) and that is fine. A lot of people feel the same way. But again, that doesn't make them a superior weapon platform over the 1911 for everyone - only for people that don't train enough to remember the safety.

It IS a training problem, Uncle Sam did not teach you to carry a 1911 cocked and locked and disengage the safety on the presentation. The standard U.S. Military method of packing the 1911 was with a loaded magazine and empty chamber, you had to draw the weapon, then rack the slide to make it ready to go. This isn't a gun problem, it is a people problem. I know you have bird dogs and assume you are a bird hunter of some sort? If your dogs are on point have you forgotten to take the safety off the shotgun when the covey flushed? How about when you are sitting on a deer stand and a big buck suddenly shows up and you only have a few seconds to make the shot. Ever forgotten to take the safety off your rifle? I'll bet not because you are accustomed to doing that in order to make the shot, muscle memory. The same goes for the 1911, if you really trained with one you would have the same instincts without conscious thought.

Most of the disarming events I’ve studied are either from the officer getting attacked in a crowd and the gun being ripped from the holster, or in some cases, the entire holster has been ripped completely off the gun belt of the officer! Or, and this is more common now, from suddenly becoming engaged in hands on struggle after the gun has been drawn and is in the officers hand. A mistake a lot of rookies or scared CCW people make is to draw the weapon and have it in their hand as a threat to try to scare the “bad guy” into giving up. Bad guys who are drunk, doped up, or in some cases mental, just don’t respond like a reasonable thinking person might and lay down and give up. If they jump the person with their gun in hand, that gun is up for grabs. Or if several people jump the gun holder at once, then because of sheer numbers they can over power the officer or CCW person. It isn’t hard to see how this happens if you really give it some thought. It can and does happen to people of all backgrounds and is a real world concern that should be thought through beforehand.

dave-t.

06-04-2009, 11:06 AM

GF- I've heard the same thing about distance. They say at 21' a man with a knife is every bit as fast and dangerous as a guy with a gun.

Hitting on MOGC's comments about the bad guy getting the gun, that is why it is so important not to draw early and brandish a weapon as a threat. You don't draw early, and only draw when you have intent to shoot. When you draw, only a major backing down of the bad guy can save him at that point, and you should be applying some pressure to the trigger because things are really that close to going down. If the situation isn't that dire, the gun shouldn't be out and in play.

Never bring a gun into the equation unless you are ready to use it immediately.

GF.

06-04-2009, 11:29 AM

That was the impression that I've always had - the bad guy doesn't know it's there until it's 90-odd % certain that it's going to be the last thing that ever crosses his mind in this life...

Which explains why people practice at 7 yards, I guess...

But do I currently make sure that there are always more than 20 feet between me and anybody who looks the least bit suspicious?

I guess it's never too late to learn a new habit... at least not until it's too late:eek:

MOGC

06-04-2009, 01:17 PM

That old distance of 21 feet for a person with an edged or blunt weapon has recently been stretched out to at least 30 feet. Tactics are paramount and more important than anything else you have at your own disposal IMHO. I'll make do with a lesser weapon if I have solid tactics. The best weapon in the world cannot make up for bad tactics that got you into the tight spot in the first place. Many folks over look this and attempt to buy their safety with high dollar hardware and fail to prep the software (brain). A firearm does not in and of itself suddenly transform a person into a "dangerous man." Mindset and tactics are what makes a person dangerous, the weapons involved are secondary.

ncboman

06-04-2009, 02:11 PM

What gets me is once they find the bad guy guilty of being the bad guy, they often hand him over to some old, semi-retired, or extremely obese (sometimes female) armed cop to transport around at arm's length.

I'm sure we will continue to see the real bad guys kick ass from time to time because of lax policies and practices involving truely dangerous people mismatched with inept keepers.

:rolleyes:

While I'm on the subject, one thing that bothers me is this equal rights thing we MUST have for women. I sometimes see ~130 lb women officers escorting 220+lb male prisoners from place to place.

"Oh, but she can do everything a 200lb man can do." :mad:

Wrong answer!!!

A 130lb woman cannot take a punch like a 200lb man. She gets hit, she's toast.

but if we remove her from the task, she can sue. :confused:

jmo though. I try to stay away from the idiots and just read about it in the news. :D

ncboman

GF.

06-04-2009, 02:48 PM

The question is not if a 130-pound woman can take a hit like a 200 pound man. The question is if she can take a hit like a 130 pound man and (speaking as a 135-pound man :D ) whether either one of the 130-pounders should be tasked with escorting a very large, dangerous, Professional Bad Guy.

Seems like that's just asking for somebody to get hurt and/or killed....

But I do agree with you, NC, and so would any thinking person. Th eonly trouble is that we've gotten to a point where you just can't say certain things, now matter how painfully thrue.

It's like when they change the fitness criteria for the fire department-- can you carry an average-sized unconscious person out of the building or not?

Clinton wanted more female military pilots. Guess what? People died when incompetent pilots who happened to be female were kept flying even though they had flying records which would ordinarily get a pilot washed out of the program... several times over. In one case, a pilot got herself (and 3 other guys) killed after not complying with repeated, direct orders from the Landing Signal Officer (the first of which was "Wave Off!" and the last three of which were "Eject! Eject! Eject!")

And then there was this whole charade where some senior brass (likely with political ambitions) tried to 'prove' that it wasn't pilot error by putting other pilots in the simulator and having them repeat the same mistakes that she had made (even though those 'mistakes' were made in direct, conscious violation of the LSO's commands), and nobody could do it... Which everybody knew beforehand would happen, which is why the LSO told her to go around and try again in the first place.

Makes me wonder why I can't sue the NBA for 'height discrimination' just 'cuz I can't dunk. One year's worth of lost wages, and I'd be set for life!

Hi Ball

06-04-2009, 09:12 PM

Gents one of the reasons the 10mm caliber got tossed in favor of the 40 S&W besides a little politics, is the fact that 90% of the women could not handle the recoil of the 10mm. They did NOT want to issue several different calibers in the Bureau because someone could not qualify with the caliber of weapon.

The 10mm gives true .357 magnum performance in a semi-automatic handgun!
Now when the govn't got into taking sides in the woman verses man debates on jobs etc, things went somewhat South. I have yet to see a women in my trade that was as good as a man doing all the physical aspects of the trade. They simply were NOT made to do so! Now I know there are exceptions to every rule, I once saw a women who looked like a friggin Russian Shot Putter and no doubt stronger than I was at the time. She weighed in a 230 pounds in the gym and could bench press her weight too!

Nonetheless, things got stretched out of perportion and a lot of areas. I do believe if a women can do the work, then she does indeed deserve the PAY. I best close now before I get in trouble with the better half OK. ;):D:D:D

MOGC

06-04-2009, 10:29 PM

I've NEVER worked with a female officer I would have felt comfortable with on the street. Fortunately I have never had to partner with a female and I'm damned glad of it. The bad thing is that male officers will put theirself in danger to protect the female partner and attempt to force a situation when if they had another guy with them the approach would be different. The only thing I like about having females on the department is when I've arrested a woman to have a female officer search them.

Hi Ball

06-05-2009, 11:16 PM

Gentlemen! Today was a day of awakening for me and my very first GLOCK PISTOL in the caliber 10mm. I was expecting a long pull on the first shot but that was not the case and the trigger is more sensitive than any of my Sig Sauer pistols.

Now the good news is that this weapon kicks no harder than my 1911 Kimber compact model OK. I started out at 6 feet from the target and fired 5 slow one handed shots. The first shot was off an inch but the other 4 were bullseye.

The ammo I used to break the pistol in, was Remington 180 grain FMJ.
I dropped back to 12 feet and fired two-handed slow fire this time, at an orange center bullseye......I need the extra help in seeing what I am aiming at ok. Well I had 8 hits in the 10 ring and 2 on the line. I was beginning to like this plastic pistol!!! My wife put up some 9 inch bright orange targets and at 21 feet, I hit paydirt with all 10 shots.

I was very much impressed with the GLOCK model 29 in 10mm today! Now 2 fellows who shot in competition were there also and they both shot my new GLOCK and like it very much. One fellow moved back quite a ways after the other man put up the steel pie-plates at 30 yards and knocked every one of them over on slow fire. Hats off to GLOCK and the model 29! :);)

ncboman

06-05-2009, 11:32 PM

I was wondering how you'd like it. :D

I doan know much about various pistols but I've shot a Glock in 10 and was very impressed at the time. We were shooting some old 2x8 boards stacked together and the POWER was what impressed me most. Definately do not want to be shot by one. :eek:

Did your wife shoot it?

ncboman

Hi Ball

06-06-2009, 08:55 AM

Ncboman........I managed to shoot the Glock-10mm some more back at the house yesterday afternoon, putting 8 shots touching each other and two off about an inch or better. I have not run any penetration tests on the gun as yet, still trying to get some Cor-Bon ammo.

However, one of the fellows yesterday remarked that it did hit those steel plates hard and they flew down with much more authority than hitting them with his Sig 9mm. I have to curl my little finger underneath the magazine since it is somewhat shorter than a full size pistol but that is no big thing to concern one's self with at firing time. Yep, it is going to be a keeper as we say at the kennel!!!;) :D :D

Bill Mc

06-07-2009, 04:28 PM

HiBall, sorry I'm so late answering your question.

I did fairly well if you consider "group" size however I must work on my trigger squeeze.:D I'm shooting abut 3 inches left level with the aiming poing at 21 feet. The trigger guard needs to be a little bigger as the recoil irritates my finger. One LEO I know says he put a bandaid on his finger when qualifing.

Since I've read about the women LEO handling prisoners, I must inject about the case where a Fulton County deputy (female) escorting a prisoner (Brian Nickols) (http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/brian_nichols.htm) to court was knocked out allowing him to take her gun and killed the judge, the court recorder plus another deputy on the street.

He later killed a Federal Agent. His trial broke the public defender fund.

He was sentenced to life w/o parole.

Now talking about the 10mm, in the county where I live, the transition was from .357 mag to 9mm to 10mm. they found out in a shootout that the 10mm overpentrated so they switched to the 40mm.

MOGC

06-08-2009, 06:28 PM

All that fuss over calibers and the good old .45 ACP has been knocking down bad guys with little fuss or muss for nearly a century...

Dennis Keith

06-09-2009, 11:55 AM

Well, the outfit I work for won't allow us to carry the 1911A1 platform because it isn't double action. They say it is dangerous to carry them cocked and locked. Well I told that for 40 years I hadn't shot anybody that didn't need shooting while carrying the platform but to no avail. So I carry my 66, because it meets the double action requirement. They make me load her down to .38 special because they don't want me to kill anybody after the round penetrates the bad guy. I would feel a whole lot safer with the 1911A1 at my side, because I too favor that big old .45acp round over the .38 whether it is pushed down the barrel of the gun with the Parabellum case the .38 special case or the .357 case wrapped around its backside. When it comes to punching holes bigger seems to trump faster when it comes to swatting down THREATS, at least from all of the Gunfighters I've talked to including one Mr Bill Jordan, I was but a youn'un at the time I met him.

MOGC

06-09-2009, 12:14 PM

Dennis,
Get ya a S&W wheelgun chambered for .45 ACP and you'll have the right cartridge and even faster reloads with full moon clips than a speedloader for the rimmed .38/.357 case.

Dennis Keith

06-09-2009, 01:37 PM

MOGC, Been saving up for a while now, but I think a S&W in the "Long Colt" may get the nod when I finally have the bucks in place. Folks say "Money Talks" well I can tell you for sure mine does. Mostly it says "Good-Bye." So I keep working and trying to put money where I can't find so I can finally get that Big Bore in a round that I can carry at work, with a Four Inch barrel, because that is another item that is a must have on my "Work Piece."

Of course, I could win the lottery and then I can go on down to my favorite Gun Store and improve his cash flow a whole bunch! Would I still work? Sure I would, but I could sure get a lot pickier about what time of the Morning I had to get up to do it! 04:30 sure gets here EARLY!

MOGC

06-09-2009, 02:32 PM

I hear you on the money thing. Just my thought but the "Long Colt" won't do anything for you against human attackers that the ACP won't also do, and, the ACP will reload about three times faster when needed to via full moon clips vs. speedloaders for the rimmed .45 Colt cases. For a dedicated LE/Military service gun the .45 ACP is a step above most others in either semi-auto or wheelgun... IMHO.

Wismon

06-09-2009, 10:06 PM

This is one of the best threads I've ever seen on this site, imho. Tin Star, NCBoman, and others: hear, hear!

Long live the 1911 and thanks for being willing to speak out against the PC crap that decrees that we're supposed to pretend that a 130 lb woman can wrestle down a 220 lb career criminal.

Bill Gunn

06-10-2009, 12:00 AM

Same Old... Same old...

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/697635.html

ncboman

06-10-2009, 02:27 AM

Same Old... Same old...

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/697635.html

How is it only 2nd degree murder when he had a plan and obtained weapons for the attack?

on an aside, I just heard on the scanner a man I know near here was just robbed by three black males in a home invasion. I KNOW this guy ain't in the drug business. I locked my doors. :rolleyes:

ncboman

Hi Ball

06-10-2009, 03:15 PM

Bill Mc......Life in prison hey! Now you can kill a judge, a police offiicer and others and still only get life in a frigging prison with color TV, your own gym free and get good food for the rest of your life. Not to mention being able to go to LAW School too! What a crock of LIBERAL BULL CRAP!!!

Bill.....I hear you on the 10mm caliber but I just ordered a full size GLOCK that will be coming in next week sometime. I already have the carry model in a GLOCK 10mm......I will be loading Pow R Ball ammo by Cor-Bon that will not over penetrate, as it just blows up inside like a bomb going off. You can't beat that trajectory flatness unless your shooting a .357-SIG perhaps.

MO GC....Yeah, I hear you about that 45 in a 1911 model but firepower is not quite as good as the GLOCKS or that Sig Sauer modle 250. The first shot is a little tuffer for those that haven't broke in with the gun but I don't have that problem with any of my Sigs in 40S&W cal. We should maybe have a shooting match (up close of course) no 40 yard crap ok GC.

I got a few KIMBERS and they are great guns, just time for this old man to use something more in firepower and less work having to take off safety's. NO SAFETY"S on GLOCKS OR SIGS to miss taking off.......GC when you get to be my age you hopefully will understand. :D:D:)

MOGC

06-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Heck, I understand now... I think. I forgot exactly what it is I understand... Anyway, stay safe up there in Injun Country.

Hi Ball

07-17-2009, 10:02 AM

Now if you wish to see the ballistic difference between various calibers, you can go to AR 15 Armory.com and under the 10mm forum there are pictures of various caliber bullets shot into ballistic geletin for comparison. The last picture being the 180 grain 10mm bullet, which shows twice the damage done by a 10mm bullet compared to the 45acp. Just food for thought people! :rolleyes:

Badger

07-17-2009, 11:27 AM

I also vote for the M1911A1. When I was a young agent and working the projects, our duty gun was a S&W 4-inch M10 with 158 grain RN lead slugs. That was in the 1970s and my mentor (older agent) also carried a M1911 on duty. While not prohibited in those days, it was "discouraged" to carry any but the issue sidearm.

My mentor told me to go get a 1911 and "not advertise the fact." In a shootout, the quickest reload is a SECOND gun, I found out early on. Also, the 1911 is a more effective sap than a M10 when handling unruly prisoners. "Plastic" guns seen a bit light for the latter task, IMO.

Badger

Bushman

07-17-2009, 01:46 PM

I don't think that there is any question that a 10mm is enough gun verses some of the others. That said, wasn't it pretty much the reason that the .40 S&W came into being? People just couldn't handle that much pistol cartridge or it over penetrated or some other reason. I think that it comes down to how much is good enough. The .45 ACP was designed as a military sidearm cartridge and that was with full metal jacketed bullets, not jacketed hollow points. Even that .45 ACP round proved too much for the troops so the Government went to the 9mm round instead.

Dennis Keith

07-18-2009, 11:19 AM

It might have taken a bit of work to qualify EXPERT with the 1911, but it never was too much for the troops.

The stated reason for the swap to the 9mm was so that our NATO Friends could supply ammo for a common pistol round.

LampLighter

07-18-2009, 06:35 PM

Those interested in this thread would be intrigued to google April 11, 1986 and read all the info, including the FBI 10mm development

Dennis Keith

07-20-2009, 10:49 AM

That was the shoot out in Miami when a bunch of LAWYERS turned cops deceided to play cowboy and Indian with two bank robbers who did not want to PLAY. The FBI lost a bunch of agents that day and it was due to MISTAKES that should not have been made, but were.

Hi Ball

07-25-2009, 08:26 AM

Dennis, if the 2 FBI agents that day had been carrying 10mm caliber handguns, they would most likely still be alive today. Now I realize that after over a 100 plus years of the 45acp being around, that it does have it's loyal followers.

However, lets get down to the real "nitty gritty" shall we and by that I don't mean what your grandfather or some ex-military type person told you when your were still wet behind the ears. The 1911 is not an easy firearm to shoot for the most part. Many people try and can NOT handle the grip of a model 1911 handgun etc. weather it be a 9mm, 38 Super or 45acp.

The 45acp was designed for up close hand to hand combat situations under 50feet in distance! It is SLOW compared to other handgun calibers on in the industry today. Most factory loads are around the 800fps range. It shoots a large .45 caliber 230 grain FMJ bullet for the most part, in it's original design. Many people use a 185 or 200 grain hollow point and many of the older guns (also newer guns) do NOT like "hollow points" causing jamming sessions to acure.

Now lets get down to the real facts people! The 10mm auto shoots a 180 grain bullet out the barrel at 1400 fps, a far cry from the 45acp shooting a 200grain bullet at 900fps. The 10mm is a .40 caliber bullet that at 1400fps will in fact cause near twice the tissue damage of a 45acp hollow point in 200 grain and penetrate some 20% deeper into test media. NOW THOSE ARE THE REAL FACTS!!! Anybody doubt my words, can go to "AR 15 Armory.com" and view the ballistic geletin blocks that were shot with 9mm, 38spl, 40 Smith & Wesson, 357 Magnum and the 10mm. Then you will realize the true power of the 10mm verses the "old soldiers" 45acp.

I have 3 Kimber 45acp's and I carry a GLOCK 10mm because they are fool-proof and the 10mm delievers, what that picture is going to show you on terminal performance over all those other calibers. The other two calibers that are awesome in performance are the 41 magnum and the 44 magnum in wheel guns.:)