YouTube - How big a threat?

[GF.]

In looking for some other stuff, I came across a bunch of Anti propaganda, all made possible by - guess who - bowhunters posting video clips of their hunts....

Trouble is, they're pulling 'kill shot' sequences - many of which show nice hits with big mule-kicks (indicating solid heart shots).

But because the deer aren't keeling over on the spot, the Antis - having no clue what they're looking at and/or counting on the fact that other non- and anti-hunters won't either - these Antis are using hunter vids as 'proof' that the deer are descaping to die a slow and painful death.... :eek: :mad:

Now, of course we know it's crap, but I have to wonder just how gullible the average non-hunter might be about this sort of thing.

And the question is, how can you fight that kind of misinformation? We're not gonna have boom-flop video with archery gear....

[dave-t.]

You wouldn't want a drop shot with archery on there anyway, I think they are the more gruesome hit to see, imo.

Short answer, you don't do anything. It is what it is, and deer run even when hit right. Recovery pictures are all that is needed to show the hunter did his job, and that (hold your hats) anti's don't know what they are talking about in regards to hunting and recovery.

Do you think that even if the deer did drop stone dead without a twitch, that the anti's wouldn't find something to complain about? We all know they would, but it is their own shrill disrespectful behavior and arguements that hurts them at least as much as much as it helps them with their cause.


Have you ever asked an anti what an ideal animal death would entail? I'd be curious about the response.

I think defending hunters rights on video would be easy. Show some clips of down but not out deer that have been hit by a car. Show a couple big predators taking down deer, especially wolves and 'yotes. Show deer obviously suffering effects of desease and or starvation.

Now ask where the more humane and respectful treatment/management lies.

[Twanger]

Have you ever asked an anti what an ideal animal death would entail? I'd be curious about the response.

I think defending hunters rights on video would be easy. Show some clips of down but not out deer that have been hit by a car. Show a couple big predators taking down deer, especially wolves and 'yotes. Show deer obviously suffering effects of desease and or starvation.

Now ask where the more humane and respectful treatment/management lies.

I've been down this trail with Anti's in the past. The clear fact is they really don't care. They don't care about how much more humane a deer kill by arrow is vs. by car or wolf. They don't care that suffering by starvation or disease due to overpopulation is a far worse death than by arrow.

They only want to take away your right to hunt.

Reasoning with an anti about hunting is like reasoning with Al Qaeda about the benefits of democracy... you will get nowhere.

I no longer try to reason with anti's. They are unreasonable.
I do try to educate the generally neutral public least they be wooed over to the anti side.

[dave-t.]

The other side I don't understand about the anti's and greenies, is that from their arguement man has evolved from lower species, yet men are not natural, as in a part of nature. Any involvement between man and the natural world ends up bad in their point of view.

Well, if we evolved by hunting and gathering similar to a wolf or bear, then do men have less rights to the deer than the wolf or bear? Why?

They won't admit or believe that God has established us at the top of the food chain over animals, but even if we evolved why aren't we still natural with appropriate natural desires, skills, and urges to secure food from the wild?

So which is it....Have we naturally evolved beyond natrual, or are we placed here by God to practice domain over the natural world, but shouldn't?:rolleyes:

[GF.]

I no longer try to reason with anti's. They are unreasonable.
I do try to educate the generally neutral public least they be wooed over to the anti side.

Exactly... I'm just wondering what we might be able to do to beat the Antis to the punch on the education bit...

Reasonable people are easy to reason with--it's a lot easier to bring someone around to your point of view if you don't pretend to have a pipeline to the truth. When I run across someone who is operating off of dogma, I don't worry about converting them to my point of view, but I do have a tendency to try to educate the on-lookers (I'm sure that will come as a complete shock to you guys ;) ).

It does puzzle me, though....

Do these people think (as Dave suggested) that all animals should somehow be exempt from death entirely? Hell, they already got a break on taxes, so what more could they ask for?

But I think it's like Twang sez... Ultimately, what these characters want is the power & influence to get everybody to adhere to their own, unique world-view, and that can't be changed. And that doesn't apply to just the Antis, but to any kind of activist, really--right wing, left wing or dead down the center. I just wonder how much more influential these folks can really be with the advent of all of the unedited, un-fact-checked, self-generated media (such as YouTube).


Maybe NC's right and I don't give the average shmoe enough credit, but hey, if there are people so incapable of rational and critical thought as to espouse these points of view in the first place, doesn't it follow that there are a lot of people who are likewise 'differently abled' in regard to critical thought who are all too readily sucked in by these kooks?

[GF.]

So which is it....Have we naturally evolved beyond natrual, or are we placed here by God to practice domain over the natural world, but shouldn't?:rolleyes:


Funny you should mention that.. One of the 'related videos' I came across quoted a whole bunch of scripture which (according to the video 'producer') made it perfectly and abundantly clear that animals have spirits, they all praise the Lord, and they're all going to heaven just like people.

Therefore 'Thou shalt not kill' applies equally to animals and humans.

:confused:



And I'm sure that if you ask them, they'll tell you they're just taking the Bible at face value and telling you exactly what it says right there in black & white.... Just like the folks who will quote you chapter & verse about 'dominion'...

But it is nice to see that we agree on one of my own favorite arguments (and I say that as a guy who has spent as much of his life as an evolutionary biologist as anything else...).

Yes, exactly-- just how the hell is it that a pet cat is has a 'right' to hunt songbirds, and a wolf/coyote/bear/cougar has a 'right' to hunt deer, wabbits, & what-have-you, but I have no hunting rights whatsoever?

Is it that you only have 'rights' if you can't tell right from wrong?

Now, I am going to differ with the point about humans being at the top of the food chain, because I'm sure at least one person just about every day manages to fall down a rung or two :eek: . So maybe I'd say there's room up there for several apex predators, not just the one on 2 legs...

But there you go - we're on the same plane in the food chain but we're not the equal of the critters with which we share it...

:confused::confused::confused:

[Twanger]

I like this quote from Genesis...

"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Gen 9:3).

Kinda open and shut. :D

[GF.]

Yup.... Whether you wanna take that one at face value, probe it allegorically for some Greater Meaning, or ignore it altogether and stick with mainstream theoretical evolutionary biology, there is but One Truth:

Meat's meat. If it tastes good, eat it.

Unless it's toxic, of course :rolleyes: Gotta watch out for those little puffer fish...

One of my all-time favorite T-Shirt/bumper stickers:

If God didn't intend for us to eat [other] animals, then why'd he make 'em out o' meat?

[ncboman]

There are some videos circulating right now that are very distasteful and a threat to our ways.

I won't honor them by posting a link.

... and if I run across that crowd from Canada that gets their kicks and giggles showing their blood lust, I promise to make life very miserable for them, at least for a little while. :mad:

ncboman

[GF.]

Whose team are those butt-heads on, anyway?:confused::confused::confused:



:mad::mad::mad: