My 2009 Scouting Reports

[postoak]

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_CDY_0004.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=CDY_0004.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_IMG_0077.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=IMG_0077.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_IMG_0107.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=IMG_0107.jpg)

[postoak]

I finally got some deer photos off the game camera. And the good news is it was right behind my primary hunting site. This site is 2 adjoining undergrowth-free areas alongside the creek, with each having 3 whiteoaks. About 40 feet off these clearings is a game trail running parallel to the creek and that's where I have my game camera. I think this is a buck. What do you say?

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_Deer1b.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=Deer1b.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_Deer1i.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=Deer1i.jpg)

[postoak]

As you may remember, the NF I hunt has almost impenetrable undergrowth with some dirt roads and trails and alongside some ravine and creek bottoms being the only places feasible for walking. I decided to make a trail DIRECTLY THRU one of these undergrowth squares that would take me directly to the highway from where I leave the forestry trail to get to my primary stand. This would be about 1300 yards, but would save me 700 yards of dragging a deer out. I got about 800 yards roughly opened, but then gave up as the undergrowth approaching the highway is the thickest I've encountered. I'll probably work more on it next winter after the season, when it's not so thick.

I also haven't felt like killing a hog. I just haven't wanted to deal with a dirty tick-and-flea-infested carcass. I plan on waiting until I *do* feel that way. This is supposed to be fun, after all.

[Bushman]

You have a lot of strange stuff in your deer woods. I can see how it would be hard to know what made a trail because anything that walks in the woods makes a trail if they walk it often enough. Good to see you posting again.

[LampLighter]

Now is the time to make trails. If you are going to cut trails through the thick stuff, leave the first 30 yards uncut. This is so every Tom, Dic, and Harry doesn't find it. And lordy, do not bright eye it or worse yet flag it. Did you get a GPS yet? I would have gotton D40 cameras and spent that cuddleback money on a GPS.

Go now with a brush cutter, which is a super weed eater with handle bars and the capability of putting a skilsaw blade on it. I have one, a Sthil FS55. Cut that trail now as wide as you, and all the way to where you want to go. I guarantee you in 1 week the deer and hogs will take it over.

What's up with the domestic animals ? Where do they come from ?

I just ate some wild pig hot tamales the other night. Very good.

[postoak]

Lamplighter, most guys on here agree with you about the marking tape and brighteyes, but I use the tape at first and later pull it out and replace with brighteyes. However, as you recommend, I don't take my trails up to the public trails. It would be a tremendous piece of bad luck if they were ever found as there's nothing to make someone suddenly start wading into this jungle at some random point on the forestry trail.

I've run into some Aoudad sheep, a llama, and an emu while wandering around. I assume the first two had wandered out from one of the 5 acre homesites that line the highway. I've heard emus were let go to fend for themselves when the emu market crashed a while back.

The weedeater -- interesting idea which I never gave any thought to, but I don't think it would be practical as I'd need to punch a hole up right up to 6.5 feet high.

[postoak]

Today I went back and checked my camera. I only got one photo in 3 weeks, and that was of 3 small hogs. I kind of wish I had gotten an IR camera. I'm afraid the flash scared off that 1 deer I got on camera before.

I also toted about 10 pounds of fertilizer back to my primary site and scattered it around the white oaks there.

BTW, my Garmin Etrex Legend GPS unit -- which kind of worked in the winter under the trees -- is TOTALLY WORTHLESS now, with the deciduous trees all leafed out.

[Bushman]

A 6.5' high hole in the brush would be easily done with on of those Stihl brush cutters. I've got the FS90 and with a saw blade on it, there is nothing that nature can grow that the Stihl won't take down. Around here they take a dim view of you brushing out the National Forest though. I'll bet that you could rent one of those Stihl cutters to try.

And what's up with your Legend? I think that has the same circuitry as my Vista and I can get a position lock through the roof! Leaves have never once given me a problem. Marking trails does invite company. I once found a great stand site for one of our neophyte hunters off the highway and before the season he had trees every 10' painted on both sides with chrome yellow paint. I think people came to see what kind of a dufus would mark up the woods THAT much. I think that John kind of liked the company. He did see four bucks from that stand opening weekend and never got one of them. I went back two days later and did.

[postoak]

Well yeah, there's that, too. You can get away with some hand-trimming of the NF, but a tool like the Stihl would attract attention.

[ncboman]

I hand trim most trails I use just taking a little each time, the object being not to make it look like a trail. That's impossible where it's real thick but over a year or two, a lot can be done to make slippin thru the thick stuff a breeze.

I have one cutover that I have trails cut where I have created a little snag for anyone but me. The trail that looks like it goes on out to the field suddenly dead ends. You can see the field and almost anyone will try and go on thru. Once they do, they'll probably not want to come back in there for a while. The trail deadends in the most hellishly thick walls of briars on the property and of course, the closer to the field, the thicker it gets. :D

:rolleyes:

Use a good deer cart once and you'll never attempt a 700yd drag. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Israel/101606016reh.jpg

ncboman

[postoak]

I'd like a cart, but it will be a while before the missus will accept that expense. And my drag will be about 2800 yards. The trail I attempted would cut 700 yards OFF of that.

Is that one of the trails you cut? Mine are much narrower. That trail is about what the overgrown forestry roads look like here.

[ncboman]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Israel/101606016reh.jpg


I'd like a cart, but it will be a while before the missus will accept that expense. And my drag will be about 2800 yards. The trail I attempted would cut 700 yards OFF of that.

Is that one of the trails you cut? Mine are much narrower. That trail is about what the overgrown forestry roads look like here.

The above pic is from my property and I originally cut these paths by hand about 20yrs ago. It's actually narrow in the pics as we ran out of time mowing it that year. Many trails I have on other properties are barely recognizable if at all. ... trimmed just enough to slip thru quietly.

On public land, I pull out all stops to keep others from finding or noticing my trails. Here's what I do. I always carry a small saw and clippers hunting and as I go to and from my spots I trim very lightly, only to the point of being able to walk standing up. I also don't straightline anything. My trails zig and zag around thick spots and obstacles. Even thru 'plain woods' I zig and zag, only trimming so I can walk upright with my stand on my back.

My boys use to get very confused trying to follow my trails but now they have it figured out and it's really very simple. As my youngest said, 'go the way you can stand up straight. That's the trail.'

oh, of note, when I trim my trails I keep all the cuttings in hand and dispose of them in spots where they won't be seen or noticed. No trimmings left about to tip the nimrods off. As Lamplighter will confirm, a cut reed is a sure sign to the experienced eye for months to come. ;)

Take your wife along to the Honda store and just browse the 4wheelers one day. On the way home, mention how you can get a really good cart for 150 or less. :D

ncboman

[postoak]

Here's a little 9-pointer at my primary stand site:

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_Buck25Jul09-0946.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=Buck25Jul09-0946.jpg)

He won't pass the new ARs, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because I would be happy to take him.

I've moved my camera to my secondary stand site to see if anything bigger is going by there.

[ncboman]

Pretty buck.

I'd shoot him too unless I only had one buck tag left. :)

[postoak]

My secondary site seems to get a lot more game traffic than my primary site. (But it is less remote and more likely to be used by some other hunter.) There's a faint game trail alongside the creek and I caught these photos there.

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_SecondarySiteAug15th012.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=SecondarySiteAug15th012.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_SecondarySiteAug15th010.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=SecondarySiteAug15th010.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_SecondarySiteAug15th015.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=SecondarySiteAug15th015.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_SecondarySiteAug15th003.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=SecondarySiteAug15th003.jpg)

I've moved my camera on to my tertiary site, which is a trail feeding into a plantation, and well away from any creek.

[Bushman]

Hard to think that a 9 pointer would still be under the antler restrictions. One antler over 3" here and he is legal.

On the deer cart on the cheap. I'd hit a few of the garage sales and pick up a kid's coaster wagon. We had a dandy that the wife sold for like ten bucks that I wish I had kept for firewood, but it would have sure worked for pulling out a deer too.

[postoak]

Hi Bushman, I had to look up the term "coaster wagon". Down here in Texas we call them "red wagons", lol. I actually have one for the grandkids' use that I could put into use, I guess. I asked my wife (a garage sales veteran) and she said she's never seen one at a garage sale.

The 9-pointer is definitely not-legal, but the little 3 pointer is. On thinking about it, I'd rather take him than a doe, due to the low deer densities in these forests. I'm kind of conflicted. I'd like to have 2 deer in the freezer, but don't really want to shoot a doe unless I don't see a legal buck at all.

[Altjaeger]

Hi Bushman, I had to look up the term "coaster wagon". Down here in Texas we call them "red wagons", lol. I actually have one for the grandkids' use that I could put into use, I guess. I asked my wife (a garage sales veteran) and she said she's never seen one at a garage sale.

The 9-pointer is definitely not-legal, but the little 3 pointer is. On thinking about it, I'd rather take him than a doe, due to the low deer densities in these forests. I'm kind of conflicted. I'd like to have 2 deer in the freezer, but don't really want to shoot a doe unless I don't see a legal buck at all.

Most of our deer would easily fit into a garden cart as well.

If the Sam Houston NF is like the Davy Crockett almost all your hunters will be the first and maybe second weekend. In that case I might give your deep woods primary the first weekend hoping hunters pushed them in. As things settled down though I would be prepared to move to your alternate. If conditions are not right for hunting either on any particular day you can always go still hunt/scout new country.:)

[postoak]

Yes, after the first two weekends, there's almost no one out there but me.

That sounds like a good plan. My #4 and #5 sites are back along the creek, too. (All 4 of these creekside sites just happen to be about 1/2 mile apart, where small stands of white oaks are. But #4 and #5 are REALLY remote -- we're talking about super-long drag outs. I'm not sure a deer is worth that effort!

#6 is on a dry ravine about 600 yards from where it intersects the creek. It looks like a great site, but I'm afraid someone else will be using it because it's only about 200 yards off a forestry trail. I'm even afraid to set up a camera on it.

Based on what the cameras are showing me, tho, and what people here and elsewhere are telling me, the creeks are going to pay off. These latest photos have actually got me almost believing I'll be able to get a deer this year.

[dave-t.]

Creeks are great places to hunt, but it is best to hunt them on a fairly steady wind. Winds tend to swirl down in the bottoms, but if you get a steady wind/breeze it can at least keep you scent going in only one direction.

Good luck this year.

[postoak]

The predominate wind direction during hunting season is at right angles to the creek, and blowing from it to the trees I've selected to sit in. I *do* have to walk along the creek various amounts to get to them tho. In some cases this is only 50 yards, but in the case of the 2 most remote, I actually have to walk several hundred yards along the creek to get to them, which is another disadvantage to those two.

[DaveHawk]

I like stands along the creek but usually I will have a tree picked out on either side to play the wind.
This is my very 1st stand I built in 81 on a piece of property I have not hunted sence "86" Just got a lease on it again and yesterday as cw and I were cutting a trail through some of the thickest stuff, we looked up and there it was. Sits over this creek. I could be dozing off and here the deer walking through the creek, what a rush LOL

This creek has hundreds of crayfish and packed with minnows. I saw mink all the time playing here and woodies would pack in in prity good numbers also.

[postoak]

Remind me where you live Dave. I like the stony creek bottom, wish we had that along the Gulf Coast.

[DaveHawk]

Maryland, Along the Potomac river area. Stony creeks are nice. I use this one to move from East / west. With a nice 4-6' bank to use as cover.

[ncboman]

Based on what the cameras are showing me, tho, and what people here and elsewhere are telling me, the creeks are going to pay off.

Drainages = deer.

I hunt swamps, creeks, runs, etc, alot. While I pay attention to wind direction, I don't always hunt downwind. I figure being 20ft up gives me ~ 40+ yds in almost every direction unless the high ground on the hill is really high.

I wear rubber boots and deer normally don't have a clue where I walked so that's a non-issue. Usually in a swamp type environment I'm favoring the tree I can cover the run from one side to the other with clear shots over wind direction. While I may cut a sapling or a limb, I don't cut firelanes, so trees that provide natural shooting lanes are much preferred. Swamps seem to be hunts where deer often just suddenly appear right under me.

Deer move up and down drainages more than they just cross over. On a good swamp run in a good deer area I generally find tracks all up and down the bottom but generally in the hotspots there is thick or more brushy cover on the sides where the edge of the swamp goes to higher ground. Usually there is a trail or two running parallel to the drainage in that stuff and I like to be able to hit a spot or two along those less obvious trails as well as cover the more open bottom. Those trails are usually the ones bucks use but doe use them too. Swamp or creek hunting, at least early season, getting good clear shots is usually more difficult that finding deer to shoot.

A good hunt tree is good. A bad hunt tree is the origin of excuses.

I think you can't go wrong hunting the creek area and I'd be tickled if that big boar came by. No antler restrictions there. :)

[LampLighter]

Drainages = deer.

I hunt swamps, creeks, runs, etc, alot. While I pay attention to wind direction, I don't always hunt downwind. I figure being 20ft up gives me ~ 40+ yds in almost every direction unless the high ground on the hill is really high.

I wear rubber boots and deer normally don't have a clue where I walked so that's a non-issue. Usually in a swamp type environment I'm favoring the tree I can cover the run from one side to the other with clear shots over wind direction. While I may cut a sapling or a limb, I don't cut firelanes, so trees that provide natural shooting lanes are much preferred. Swamps seem to be hunts where deer often just suddenly appear right under me.

Deer move up and down drainages more than they just cross over. On a good swamp run in a good deer area I generally find tracks all up and down the bottom but generally in the hotspots there is thick or more brushy cover on the sides where the edge of the swamp goes to higher ground. Usually there is a trail or two running parallel to the drainage in that stuff and I like to be able to hit a spot or two along those less obvious trails as well as cover the more open bottom. Those trails are usually the ones bucks use but doe use them too. Swamp or creek hunting, at least early season, getting good clear shots is usually more difficult that finding deer to shoot.

A good hunt tree is good. A bad hunt tree is the origin of excuses.

I think you can't go wrong hunting the creek area and I'd be tickled if that big boar came by. No antler restrictions there. :)


I could not change a word above in describing my hunt methods. Exactly as nc said, and I'm in the Ms River bottomlands.

Only thing I add is there are certain runs that deer use in a swamp area that they use regulary. Even if deer are killed, new deer use the same runs. It is part of a puzzle and you need to put the puzzle together. That usually takes a few years of observation. It usually involves food. Woods trails and people walking the trails are important too. Late in the season deer will bed where they can see "up" these trails and will slip out the back door when you come up the trail.

Our archery season doesn't open until the first week of Nov. in my best areas, Oct. 1 in all other State areas. I always go slippin in early Oct. with total camo, head net and gloves, and good binocs., real slow early in the morning in my areas, and I see many deer easing back into the woods from the ag fields and acorn hotspots. That is how I know what is going on. Then when I compare what I saw with what I saw last year, and what runs I found, and consider where the rub lines, etc. go, the whole picture becomes apparant. " That's why all those tracks are...... " . That's what it's all about Post Oak.

[postoak]

Thanks fellas, we'll see how it works out.

[ncboman]

I know Tx has antler restrictions now. What about doe? Can you shoot them at will?

[southtexas]

ncb: regs are issued by county. Not all counties have AR's (although the number of counties that do have them is increasing every year).

the number of does varies by county, also. I'd say that a typical county would have a limit of 4 or 5 deer total, with no more than 2 bucks.

[postoak]

In this NF, you have to apply for a doe permit (although you always get one if you apply).

The limit for the county is 4 deer, no more than 2 bucks and no more than 2 doe. So, since I only hunt in the NF, I could shoot 2 bucks and 1 doe, max.

It is doubtful I will see a buck that will pass the ARs, and I'm not liking the idea of shooting a doe because of the already low deer densities, so I'll probably end up shooting that little 3 point that I posted a photo of.

[postoak]

I checked my camera at my #3 site. It only had 3 doe (probably the same one 3 times) plus a fox or a coyote, you decide:

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_Site3August29th002.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=Site3August29th002.jpg)

This site is on a game trail thru what I believe is a staging area between a bedding area and a plantation which serves as a feeding area and also an area where the deer get together and hang out. It's got lots of rubs and scrapes. Although I haven't seen a buck on camera, I have 2 rubs at the bedding area end of the trail.

I will hunt on this site during the peak of the rut.

I was going to move my camera to my #4 site, but I found unmistakeable signs that someone had stumbled across a 1000 yard section of "secret trail" of mine, and I didn't feel my camera would be safe there, so I stuck it on a game trail off the trail. I pulled up the marking tape for that 1000 yards, even tho it didn't really lead to a hunting site. I just didn't like anyone piggy backing off of my efforts. If they come out on opening day expecting to use that trail, they are in for a surprize. I marked the trail with my new GPS. I retired my useless Garmin Etrex Legend and bought the one that the friend of Twanger's recommended. It works great under the tree canopy.

[Bill Gunn]

Pretty sure it's a fox, but it could be a young coyote...

The more I look, the less I'm sure http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0024.gif

[ncboman]

looks like a yote to me.

a fox that size would have a much larger tail. :rolleyes:

[postoak]

I'm like Bill Gunn. When I first saw this on my camera I thought it was a fox. When I got it onto the computer, I thought more and more that it is a small coyote.

[LE]

My guess is a young coyote. Looks like he is on the move.

[dave-t.]

Coyote.

[postoak]

I'm having to be careful in the placement of my game cam, now that other people are out scouting. There's lots of places I'd like to put a cam, but just can't.

This past week, I have had it about 100-150 yards away from the creek. It's about 30 yards above the head of a ravine heavily cloaked with laurel cherry thicket. This area is free of undergrowth, and about 50 yards wide. Further from the creek than that, and the "highland" undergrowth starts up. I found a game trail in that semi-open area and caught this doe on camera. I am pretty sure it is the same doe, passing by about 12 hours apart. The camera caught her in almost the exact same spot and position.

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_Site7Sept132009001.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=Site7Sept132009001.jpg)

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_Site7Sept132009002.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=Site7Sept132009002.jpg)

I've moved the camera about 1900 yards along the creek from the highway, to a somewhat undergrowthless area alongside a ravine choked with the usual laurel cherries. There are 5 white oaks there, and a little game trail running down to the creek.

[postoak]

Well, there's good news and bad news.

The bad news is that we are having a VERY poor acorn crop this year. Poor as in none. I'm getting reports from all over the state, and others are seeing the same thing, but still others report heavy crops. Don't know what to make of that. I do know that June is normally one of our rainiest months, and we had absolutely no rain in June this year.

The good news is that I did see acorns that look like they came down partially eaten by squirrels from this one tree . This tree is one of the oaks that I fertilized at my primary stand site.

[postoak]

I've described the terrain around the creek I hunt on, before, but I have a bit better understand of it now.

About every quarter mile, on average (on the side I hunt), a ravine flows down to it. The ravines are sometimes wet, sometimes dry, usually not flowing water except after rains, but most often standing water for some ways in from the creek. Each one of these is invariably cloaked by heavy laurel cherry thickets. These thicks can be from 15 yards to 30 yards wide where they join the creek. They're so thick that where I have blazed a trail thru them, hogs start using my trail to cross. (In fact, that's going to be my hog hunting strategy -- to set up where I can get a shot at a hog coming thru one of my trails. These ravines usually extend at least 400 yards away from the creek. Sometimes twice that. I guess that means there are ridges between them that are wide at the creek and eventually come to a point way away from the creek. But we are talking about ridges so low that you would only be able to notice them if this were grassland -- which it is not.

There's one section of about a half mile, tho, where no ravines extend inland more than 100 yards (at most). These also are choked with laural cherries, but it is easy for me to go around the top of the ravine. And for some reason (perhaps due to logging, perhaps not) at this point above the head of ravine and extending, usually to the head of the next small ravine, is an area largely free of undergrowth. It's a belt about 30 yards wide. After that, we get the very thick upland thicket. I set up my camera two weeks ago on a path in this area, that paralleled the creek, and I got a photo of a doe (the last 2 photos I posted thumbnails of), using the path. If oaks aren't going to draw the deer this year I'm thinking seriously that this is where I need to set up.

Because my whole strategy has revolved around hunting at stands of oaks where they meet the creek, I haven't even been looking for rubs this year -- nor have I noticed any.

[postoak]

I still haven't a clue as to bedding and feeding areas in a forest where edible things are everywhere and cover is so thick every where that ANY place could be a bedding area and any place could be a feeding area.

[LampLighter]

My question is- how do you know there are few acorns ? Even looking up with binoculars never proved right for me in the past. We have boo koo acorns again this year. The squirrels were cutting on the big, big white oaks back over labor day weekend when I was easing around at the camp.

You have to figure out what the primary food is going to be. I suggest you stop roaming in the woods, but stop in the woods early morning & late evening, and listen for the squirrels, you know, " chit, chit chit, chit, begooooooo. " Go to that area and check out the acorn situation.

Any agriculture in the area at all ?

[Bushman]

Edible possibly, but maybe not preferred. Deer are just like you are. There could be a bowl of dry cereal on one table and a bowl of shrimp on another table. Both are edible, but odds are that you are going to head for the good stuff. One oak tree with good acorns is better than a whole woods of them because it will concentrate the deer activity. Oak trees don't have the same amount of acorns each year either. I have six oak trees in my yard and last year almost nothing and this year they are falling like rain. I like to hunt lower browse species instead of oaks, because I can depend that the deer will always be eating young poplar and forbes foods.

In my experience, bucks especially will bed on the upper part of a ridge where one jump will either take them down into the thick stuff or up over the top. They also like to walk on trails just below the crest of a ridge to limit their exposure. It is one of the reasons that I like to hunt in more hilly areas so that the topography help steer the movement. Also if a buck beds in an area where he feels safe, he will bed in that same area again. Beds are easy to recognize and this time of year I would be looking for rubs. Early rubs are going to be closer to a bucks core area.

[postoak]

Lamplighter, you are right, I probably couldn't see the acorns on the big oaks; but the oaks in my yard, which haven't lacked water, are now dropping their acorns, it's that time here. So, the fact that I'm not seeing acorns on the ground where I hunt has me worried. Of course my one tree that has them should be a deer and hog magnet. BTW, for whatever reason there are almost no squirrels in these woods. I think I've seen 3 or 4 in 3 years.

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned "ridges"! The rise between these ravines is no more than 20 or 30 feet over a distance of 300-400 yards. About half of that is within 50 feet of the ravine bed.

As for preferred foods, the woods are homogeneous in that respect. Preferred and non-preferred foods are mixed together everywhere.

I'm not really wandering around the woods anymore these days. I just walk in and out along the trail I have paralleling the creek, to change the SD card in my game camera and move it to a new location. I'm doing that once more before archery season opens and then putting it away until February.

[LampLighter]

Any agriculture in the area ?

[postoak]

No. The boundaries of the national forest are coastal bermuda fields for cattle.

[postoak]

Today was the rifle opener. There are still no acorns around here. I don't think we're going to see many on the ground. However, I was in Dallas this week and they have a huge crop up there. This matches reports I've gotten from around the state -- some places have heavy crops and other have almost none.

I've wondered whether deer were using the two trails I blazed down to the creek. Since the ground is covered with a thick layer of pine needles and leaves, you can't normally see tracks, but this morning I saw 4 rubs and a scrape on the trails, so they are using them. This might be bad, because I have to walk down the trails to get to my stand sites on the creek. Since these trails are narrow, I can't help but leave my scent on things as I walk along.

I also saw tracks along the trail that parallels the creek. I'm wondering if I should abandon the oaks on the creeks and just hunt my trails where they leave the forestry road. However, the fact that we have ARs this year mean that any bucks I ambushed along the trail are not likely to be shootable. If those trails are just being used by bucks trying to cover large amounts of area, then I'd have a better chance at a doe along the creek.

Anyway, I've changed one thing already. Instead of walking down to the creek and about 50 yards down to where the oaks are, I decided to set up right there at the trail head. Otherwise, I think my scent would get to any deer approaching along the creek from one direction and they would stop approaching me. That cuts my chances of seeing something in half. I eliminate that problem by hunting where my trails meet the creek trail.

[postoak]

I've got my game cam back out on one of my blazed trails. It's at an especially thick patch I had to cut thru. Any deer going that direction is going to use my trail, so it is a sort of funnel. I'm not confident in getting a 13 inch plus buck for the next couple of years, but I think the best way to do so is to find one with my game cam.

BTW, the buck I shot today, is NOT this little spike, even tho this was the same site, so I may go back to the same spot and try for him. But first, I'm going to go about 1 mile downstream to a spot where I think I have a good shot at a doe.

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/th_SecondarySiteAug15th001.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/want-to-be/?action=view&current=SecondarySiteAug15th001.jpg)

[Altjaeger]

It took us about 4 years to begin seeing bucks over 13" and there were of course fewer spikes in the meantime.

Unfortunately the TPWD seems to be intent on pushing the permits for the game management areas. Magically there are not enough does in the other areas to support the hunting of them. I know your National Forest is all game management area but that is not the case in the other three. I am in a situation where in the section I hunt the interspersed private land owners can hunt does 4 days a year. The larger clubs that into the LAMPS management program can get doe permits but some scoundrel has taught them not to cross those National Forest boundaries.

My only conclusion is that they want to sell those permits and are using the prmits to pressure/lure hunters onto those lands. Ithink it is about time for some Freedom of Information Act requests to the National Forests and to find the equivalent statute for Texas to go to the TPWD. Then some time for analysis and get ready to drive 3 or so hours over to some local TPWD meetings next spring.

[postoak]

Not quite sure what you are saying. There aren't enough permits? Or there are enough but you have to pay for them?

In the SHNF, the permits are free, and about 4 times as many are available as are applied for, so if you apply, you get one.

[Altjaeger]

Not quite sure what you are saying. There aren't enough permits? Or there are enough but you have to pay for them?

In the SHNF, the permits are free, and about 4 times as many are available as are applied for, so if you apply, you get one.

What I am saying is that in the Davy Crockett National Forest for example unless you hunt the WMA that only covers about 25% of the total National Forest you cannot draw a doe permit. It is the same for the Angelina and Sabine National Forest. Now I know that the Sam Houston NF is completely a Wildlife Management area can you can draw for all of it. So in three National Forest doe permits cannot be obtained for approximately 3/4s of the acreage.

To hunt a Wildlife Management area you need the Texas Public Land Permit that cost an additional $48 to hunt. Until 3 years ago we drew for does tags that were good for the entire NF and enjoyed about a 50% draw rate.

I talked to one of the Federal Biologist about 5 years ago and he told me the State was providing no special habit improvement programs in those areas and the populations were about the same throughout the forest so that there was at that time no benefit to buying the permit.

[postoak]

I see, do you have to pay the fee before you can enter the draw? Twenty-five percent may not sound like much but it has to be a lot of acres. I'm guess where you hunted wasn't in the WMA part of Davy Crockett.

[Altjaeger]

No, you do not have to pay the fee to draw, but do to hunt it. The management area is 30-45 minutes from my camp.

The National Forest is 161, 497 acres officially of Federal land interspersed with private land. Instead of working from memory I just dug a map out and it says the Alabama Creek Wildlife management area is 14,500 acres. That means that there are 147,000 acres without does permits while the interspersed private lands are allowed 4 days of does seaon over the Thanksgiving weekend and the bigger hunt clubs under MLD or LAMPS programs get doe tags.

[postoak]

Yep, that's pretty bad. That about 92% of the forest that doesn't have doe permits.

[postoak]

Well, since I've made contact with deer my last 2 outings, whereas I went the previous 2 seasons without seeing deer from my stand, I am going to pronounce that I've learned something about hunting our southern national forests (which are flat, never seen any snow, and have no surrounding crop fields).

1) You have to hunt "edges". Most of the forest consists of heavily undergrowthed areas that should be avoided. It's almost impossible to move thru them in a timely fashion, there are no trails of any length, and it would be very noisy to go into them, even if you could, easily.

2) Edges are highways, forestry roads, forestry trails, open pine plantations, the occasional very small clearing, along the creeks, some dry ravine bottoms, and strips alonside some ravines.

3) Since it is illegal to hunt the first 3 of those, they can be eliminated from consideration.

4) You must resist the tendency to hunt any area, no matter how appealing, that is easy to get to. This eliminates the pine plantations, and the dry ravines.

5) So you hunt the creeks and alongside some ravines which have low undergrowth areas. But, you only hunt these when they are back in aways.

6) The key is to blaze a secret trail down to a remote area.

That's what I've learned so far. Whether there is more to it than this, time will tell.

I'm already looking forward to scouting next year. Scouting, in this context pretty much means blazing new secret trails. There are 2 or 3 places along the creek that are just too remote to get to right now, and the access path is along the creek. So, any deer coming along the creek to my stand has a good chance of picking up some scent I've left. I've already mapped out the most direct way of getting to these sites, and come February I'll get out my nippers and get to work!