A List of B.S. Local Taxes

[LampLighter]

Our State legislature has a bill on the table that, if passed, would tax us via monthly internet service bill. This tax seeks to capture money for Cyber Predator law enf. BS!

Among taxes that already appear on the yearly property tax bill are:

* a local hospital. What the hel do I pay medical insurance for? I just as well drop my insurance and go to the local hospital.

* School Board. Oh boy, I pay hundreds to this- AND I HAVE NO FAMILY MEMBERS IN SCHOOL!!!!!. wHAT DO i GET ??? I asked this before. I was told " an educated community."

Alimony- what the hel is this ?

What I have come to realize is that millages are approved by local voting, therefore the majority of active voters approve these millages, because the MAJORITY are the middle class suburbs where each house has a mini van or a surburban, with lots of kids . All of these millages are applicable to these folks. Most go to public school. I must pay for THEIR kids to go to school, and what I get is an educated community ?

I think there should be individual exceptions where one can go down to the tax assessor's office , or the tax collector ( Sheriff) and file for a "not applicable" exception, and then these millages are not added to that particular person's property tax bill.

Use- pay, don't use, don't pay.

Why should I have to pay for internet cyber predator law enforcement when there are NO juveniles in my particular household? Why do I have to lay down my hard earned money from sweating in an attic in July soldering refrigeration lines, to protect the little snot-nosed kid over in Glendale Heights ? Why ?

[Bushman]

Probably because the snot-nosed kid's parents are not paying their fair share. At least they tell you where it is going. Up here they just change the assessment ratio and do what ever they do with the money and still it isn't enough. Rather then spelling it out for extra charges they call it "Special Assessment Charges" or they list some abbreviation that has no explanation like Northeast WI. VTAE that went up 6.2% this year to $515.50. What is that? Or this year I am paying $95.24 for Storm Water Management. $4,226.81 to have an educated community is a biter too. Not much fun at tax time here.

[ncboman]

We have an interesting situation with our county gov and tax situation.

The officials have this year borrowed money to pay the interest on money they borrowed in the past, seemingly ignoring the elephant in the room. :confused:

I'm lookin for the state to step in if this keeps up. :cool:

ncboman

[TinStar]

I agree that's it's getting totally out of hand. We have no kids either and have to pay for others. I don't mind that so much as I mind the schools being used for liberal indoctrination and thinking. And I mind that the kids seem to be getting dumber than smarter. And I mind about the administartors and teachers pay compaerd to the folks that pay their salaries. This is getting way out of hand. I am also pissed about all the "hidden" taxes that we pay without really knowing it. And what upsets me the most is how it gets pissed away by state, local, and especially the Fed. governments.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[GF.]

NC/TinStar - I'd agree with you that lots of tax dollars are wasted. Reminds me of an old cowboy/ski instructor I once met who said something about borrowing money to pay for the feed you gave to a horse that died last winter... But TinStar - administrators, well, maybe. There is a disturbing willingness in our society to reward administrative functionaries for shuffling paper in a way that makes them look busy, rather than compensating the truly productive workers for their ability to get vaulable work done....Is it just as bad in the school system? I don't know about that. But my younger brother is a public high school teacher' he teaches advanced placement courses in biology and coaches a lacrosse team or two, and he makes a hell of a lot less than most anybody belonging to any kind of union. And compared to a plumber or an electrician, his paycheck's a complete joke.

The educational system isn't perfect, but you can't blame schools for 'liberal indoctrination' when the parents don't give the kids any kind of skills for critical thinking and don't teach their kids the importance of standing up for themselves and their beliefs.


But I do think you other guys are overlooking a thing or two here....

#1) Assuming that you went to public schools yourselves, then tell me exactly who paid for your education?

#2) If you sent your own kids to public schools, what makes you think for one half a second that what you paid in taxes during those years actually covered the cost of educating your kids?

There's a reason private schools are so damned expensive, and it is - in case I need to spell it out for you - the fact that parents only pay in while their kids are there in that school.....

#3) An educated community = an educated worforce = people with jobs that will pay enough in taxes to provide for your grouchy old social security. An ignorant community = unskilled labor = jobs that get sent to someplace where there's a larger supply of cheaper and more motivated unskilled labor.

Some people pay more into social security than they take out, some get out more than they ever thought of paying in. Of which type would you prefer to have more?


Alimony- what the hel is this ?

If you're paying Alimony and you don't even know what it is--let alone why you're paying it-- then maybe you only got as much of an education as you currently seem willing to pay for somebody else's kids to get...:rolleyes:

[45seventy]

GF,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Improving the school district, will bring more families into the district, the families buy houses, which in turn raise your own property values, improves local businesses which generates a larger tax base and so on, and so on.

[bugsNbows]

I personally think the public (government) school system is a disgrace. The main "education" objective put forth by the government seems to be to get everybody just smart enough to support the government and the dependence on such, but not too smart to see the folly in that logic. I no longer have school age children, but if I did, you can bet your sweet arse they would be in a private school (no matter what I had to sell or do to see to it). The children are the future. To give them anything less than a top rate education is as close to child abuse as one can get...IMO.

[GF.]

No real disagreement here, man... #1 son is 6 and going into his 3rd year of private schol this fall. Thank God for financial aid (and it doesn't hurt that his uncle went there 8 years with Grampy payin' full boat). We have a neighbor with two little girls who have learning issues, and she's paying $53 grand a year.


Each.

#1's school is a hell of a lot cheaper, but still, full tuition is what I paid for two years at a very good private college, 20 years ago. Including room & board.

#2 Son has hearing issues and needs some special ed services to get his speech caught up, and we're already so disgusted with the public program that he qualified for (under ADA) that we pulled him out again. He may go back, but it's gonna be on our terms, and the plan is going to meet our objectives. You might figure that all the extra effort is what we should expect, having a kid with special needs; but the truth is, it's what every public-school parent should expect.



Kid Brother says he could just about write the report cards on back-to-school night:

'A' Students: two parents show up with a list of questions.

'B' Students: 1 or 2 parents show up and will listen to the answers to the other parents' questions.

'C' students: A parent might show up, but they're not sure what they're doing there or why they came.

And God help the rest of 'em...


And that's at a high school in a very desirable district where the parents have (presumably) put a lot of effort into seeing to it that their kids can go to good schools. But if the parents don't get involved and act like they care, a kid will limp through the entire system and come out barely able to function in society. If the parents do care, well, just check the enrollment at the very top-end schools - at least those which have need-blind admissions. The smartest kids in America come from all over America.

The system isn't great, and it may have an awful lot about it that's badly broken. But if the parents are willing to take responsibility, the public school system generally does still work.

[LampLighter]

I think GF is one of the freeloader freddies scalping off our hard labor, judging from his reaction. We are not paying for your kids GF. Go to work.

[Altjaeger]

I think GF is one of the freeloader freddies scalping off our hard labor, judging from his reaction. We are not paying for your kids GF. Go to work.

Did you attend publc school? I know you attended a state university. I agree we all benefit from a public school system though this one needs fixing.

I attended a public school as did 90% plus of the members here as have about 90% plus of their parents and children. Are they all Freddie Freeloaders? Were you and your parents? Are you and I as graduates of state universities?

I see school taxes as education on the installment plan from which we all benefit directly and indirectly. Unfortunately right now it is in many ways a crippled program at an inflated price.

[LampLighter]

For every action, there is a reaction


Quote:
Alimony- what the hel is this ?

If you're paying Alimony and you don't even know what it is--let alone why you're paying it-- then maybe you only got as much of an education as you currently seem willing to pay for somebody else's kids to get...


He starts- I finish. Simple as that. He should know that by now. Come on man, after all this time you know I am going to fire back. Be nice and I am your best friend.

Now back to the thread- No, I do not feel as though I have to invest in an educated community. I think that is BS. When someone wants something, he/she seeks it. Matthew 7:7 seek and you shall find.

The public schools can be financed by households that use them. Those that do not, let there be a provision by the sheriff (tax collector) to exempt households that do not use the school.

[Altjaeger]

What I have come to realize is that millages are approved by local voting, therefore the majority of active voters approve these millages,

I think there should be individual exceptions where one can go down to the tax assessor's office , or the tax collector ( Sheriff) and file for a "not applicable" exception, and then these millages are not added to that particular person's property tax bill.


As soon as you convince the majority of active voters or their representatives to change the system your way you can have that exemption. In the meantime I guess the democratic principals upon which this country was established will remain in effect and the current system will be ongoing.

I think if you look closer a lot more than parents vote for those taxes. That is because their parents, the voters themselves and their children, in addition to the public at large, have benefitted from public schools.

[Dennis Keith]

Alt, at the time you and I were going to school Teachers had yet to be UNIONIZED and still cared about whether or not "the young skulls full of mush" had been taught how to THINK. I remember one English teacher, Miss Gaydon, who would not fail you unless you earned the right to be Stupid. You earned the right to be stupid by NOT going to Miss Gaydon's home (Rented not owned) and going over your lessons finding the mistakes of others until you knew when you were making a mistake, and therefore, quit making mistakes.

Miss Gaydon never married, never had a child of her own, but when she passed away there was no room inside the church for her funeral, and little room outside it for "Her Kids" to pay their last respects.

I put my son in private school when the Third Grade Teacher in the Chicago Public School he was to attend wanted only to talk about her travel plans for the Summer and not to talk at all about the plans for the comming Fall Classes.

There are far more of the latter type in charge of "OUR" kids today than of the former. The only way to put the Latter Type out of the system is to allow Vouchers to help Parents who are struggling to get their kids EDUCATED to help pay for a private school where EDUCATION takes place. Only then can the "Miss Gaydons" take control of the Public System and quit wasting the kids time on anything that doesn't resemble the system that we had when we were kids.

Weeding out the teachers who care only about their plans for their extended time off is difficult because of The Teacher's Unions but, should we get the right to take the Tax Payment collected to spend it on the Education of the Children the way it is supposed to be and not on INDOCTRINATION, then someday when the Union finds it has Ill Served the Profession, perhaps the Professionals will again be able to take control of EDUCATING their charges.

I'm not sure just how long we have to wait for these changes to take place so those with Children at home expecting change better get started working for that change, before it comes too late to help their GRANDCHILDREN. The vote talley in the last presidential race tells me that we really have very little time to waste.

[Altjaeger]

Dennis, as I said there are problems with the system. Lets not mistake the difference of public education and the abolishment of it for parent financed private education as the only option. That is LL's proposal.

I don't pretend to be certain what the solution is but I am becoming convinced standardized tests are not it. I think vouchers where public schools compete with private schools for parent controlled vouchers MAY be the best. Still vouchers are a form of public financed education.

Whatever the solution I have no doubt that public education in some form is in the public interest and that all members of society (including the childless) benefit. As I said I see school taxes as education on the installment plan that benefitted our parents, ourselves and our children. School taxes and public education came about because the public perceived the cost not to was too great. Until the majority are convinced otherwise and abolish public education through the electorial and legislative process it will continue. Thats as it should be.

[ncboman]

Public education is one of the best things the US has going. The teachers union is one of the worst.

If I were king I would bust the teachers union and return the ciriculum to 1955 era standards. ... no retirement until age 60 at least.

ncboman

[LampLighter]

If I were king


Now that's an idea. If I were, OMG :eek: you don't even want to imagine.

[LampLighter]

More locals looking for $$$. I got paid a visit today by Code Enforcement. Now, my State license that says " licensed to practice Mechanical work STATEWIDE" isn't good enough in a particular parish (county). They want me to go buy their 400 dollar local license. Ah boy. :confused:

[dave-t.]

Vouchers would be a needed kick in the pants for the Teachers Union and it give folks who are interested in their kids future some options.

I do feel that education is a solid use of public money, and that we all should support the funding of schools, but if your kid isn't in the public school, the public school district shouldn't be taking your education money.

It is ludicrous how much money is thrown at each child for public education. It seems like the more we spend the worse the test scores, and behavior gets. Some copetition for those education dollars won't hurt the public schools one bit. It might open their eyes.

[ncboman]

More locals looking for $$$. I got paid a visit today by Code Enforcement. Now, my State license that says " licensed to practice Mechanical work STATEWIDE" isn't good enough in a particular parish (county). They want me to go buy their 400 dollar local license. Ah boy. :confused:

You better get the license or face being arrested with your job wide open and tools left out for the trip to the magistrate. Seen it done.

One town in our area requires a $20 anual permit. I charge every job in that town $60 extra for it. Most places doan require a permit to replace an existing roof or siding.

I call it extortion.

ncboman

[LampLighter]

You better get the license or face being arrested with your job wide open and tools left out

I'll get Paul to come bail me out :) I finished that job but he said don't do any more work without their license. I wonder what good my State Lic. is ? Everybody wants a piece of the pie. Hand in the cookie jar.

[Sabre]

I'll get Paul to come bail me out :) I finished that job but he said don't do any more work without their license. I wonder what good my State Lic. is ? Everybody wants a piece of the pie. Hand in the cookie jar.

It ain't gonna stop neither. I haven't taken the time to really figure it out but I'm quite sure the gov. is taking more than 50 cents of every dollar you earn right now. What is the limit people will put up with before they finally grow some balls and say enough is enough to these blood sucking leaches ? 70 percent ? 80 ? how about 90 ?

[LampLighter]

That is what it will take- the majority to stand up and say NO. They know the average person will just bow down, mumble disagreement lowly, then give in and pay. They know. A weak society indeed. I guess I too will have to pay them if I get another big job over there. It will be priced in the bids though.

[ncboman]

Yes, you will pay just like all the other sheeple you constantly criticise. :D

ncboman

[GF.]

It might surprise some of you - whether you're too young to know this or just have selective memory ;) - but the top tax rates in the US have been a helluvalot higher in years gone by.

In '32, the top-tier tax rate jumped from 25% (for those making $100k and up) to 63% - but they did raise the income bar to a million... And back then, that was some pretty heavy-duty income...

In '41, the top rate was 81% in incomes of 5 milion or more, but come 19 and 42, they lowered the income level to just $200k, and by '45 the rate was up to 94% on the sma amount.

Those 'happy days' in the '50s? 91%-92% from 1951-1963 (on incomes of $400k) and 40 years down the road from that? The top income tax bracket was a measly 35% on an income of $311,950 (same as for 2X median income) and these days the rate on 2X median is just 25%

And no, those dollar amounts are not adjusted for any kind of inflation....


You look at median incomes, and average taxes are lower now than they were in the '50s.

So basically, that whole generation of GIs who came home from WWII spent their entire working lives paying higher taxes than their kids and grandkids do now.

And which generation is doing most of the complaining? :confused:

[Sabre]

I wasn't talking just income tax and lest you forget, damned near EVERYTHING is taxed nowdays and the slime balls are busy thinking up more things to tax us on every day. Bought a pack of cigarettes lately ? 3.75 tax PER PACK here in NY. How about that tax on every gallon of gas ? And your dog license ? just another tax is all that is. Want to build a woodshed in your back yard, on property you already pay outrageous taxes on every year ? Don't forget your building permit {yet another tax} cuz you gotta give the devil his dues. And how bout that inspection sticker in your windshield or that registration sticker ? gotta give DMV their cut dontcha know. Free country my ass, you were born into government slavery and you ain't gittin' out till ya die. Oh, and I haven't looked it up but I do seem to recall that there was NO INCOME TAX AT ALL until sometime in the 1890's {except for a brief time during the civil war}.

[GF.]

I guess I have to draw a distinction between understanding why I have yo pay them and enjoying doing it ;) So I'm sure we'd agree that governments tend to be painfully inefficient and that taxes could be lower if things were run more effectively.

But you can't talk about what the income taxes were pre-Civil War unless you take a look at the services the government was providing, 'free of charge', at that point. Not very damn much. Aircraft carriers, tanks, fighter jets, army/navy/airforce/marines, interstate highways, the prison system, the FBI, the CIA, Medicare/Medicaid, social security, the FDA, the USDA, public education, the supreme court....

You and I may not agree on the value of every one of those services, but we do benefit from them pretty much equally, and these things all cost money. So no doubt about it, we're still gonna have taxes and we're still gonna have to pay the damn things....

So basically, you've gotta have a permit to build a shed on your property because your town has to be able to regulate what gets built and where, and make sure that it's up to applicable codes and so on and so on , and all o' that costs money.

And assuming that we can agree that the whole town benefits from (for example) building regulation, code enforcement, and so forth, then I guess we'd agree that paying for those services makes sense. But if you're my neighbor and I'm not building a shed on my property, then why should I be paying as much as you do for someone to regulate your stinkin' shed?


Cigarette taxes? Hell, man, those are 100% voluntary. If you don't like 'em, then quit smoking. That is part of the reason the taxes are high, after all - the Benevolent State wants to give you an added incentive to do something good for yourself, even if it is something that seems like a complete no-brainer to anybody who's not already addicted to the damn things...:rolleyes:

But some of those tax dollars are supposed to go toward defraying the cost of health care for smoking-related illnesses, since cancer & other medical treatment for uninsured smokers costs everybody a lot of tax money. Just like your shed, the cigarettes are creating a cost, so they need to create the revenue to pay for the regulation. It's no different from hunting licenses, but I don't hear many of us complaining about that....


Bottom line is, things like your shed and your smokes end up costing everybody money....

So the question is, do you want everybody's taxes to go up, or just everybody's but yours?:D

[Altjaeger]

Sabre, I will agree on almost everything you say with one exception. That is smoking.

I cannot lay my hands on the study so you can take or leave what I say there. I was a 2 pack a day smoker for 30 years and quit almost 3 years ago.

Smoking is not a public niusance or a health care cost containment issue as advertised. It is about the ability to control others.

There was a study about 10 years ago that smoker cost the taxpayers less, not more than non-smokers. It does compress the time of the cost in the last days so they appear higher. With a shorter life span though the life time costs of medical care is less.

The seperate smoking areas and oinization filters had pretty much eliminated smoking nuisance in the restuarant industry. Now it is just part of the demonization of smokers and control of other people. It is the control of people which to a large degree is the goal of almost everything liberals seek.

[Altjaeger]

As I said I agree with most of your post. We all want a strong defense, interstate highway system, FAA type control of safety, etc. Of course we want our pet projects like CRP financed but the next guys pet project killed for cost containment. Still somewhere we are going to have to quit growing responsibilities and killing some programs.

Last I heard our total tax bill is now exceeding some European countries as they shrinktheir governments learning they can't doit all. The figures I hear are between 45-50%. In caculating cost all taxes are figured. Income taxes, state and federal, school taxes, the hospital district tax and the local junior college tax, the many excise taxes and fees such as gas, phones, and deodorant. Also the car inspection, vehicle registration, sales tax, county tax, city tax along with many others. What is not counted but should be because we really pay for those in our purchases are the taxes on businesses and industry.

Nope we will give up our neighbors pig, but we all will have to a give uplittle to get costs under control.

[Sabre]

Sabre, I will agree on almost everything you say with one exception. That is smoking.

I cannot lay my hands on the study so you can take or leave what I say there. I was a 2 pack a day smoker for 30 years and quit almost 3 years ago.

Smoking is not a public niusance or a health care cost containment issue as advertised. It is about the ability to control others.

There was a study about 10 years ago that smoker cost the taxpayers less, not more than non-smokers. It does compress the time of the cost in the last days so they appear higher. With a shorter life span though the life time costs of medical care is less.

The seperate smoking areas and oinization filters had pretty much eliminated smoking nuisance in the restuarant industry. Now it is just part of the demonization of smokers and control of other people. It is the control of people which to a large degree is the goal of almost everything liberals seek.
Nothing I would disagree with at all there Alt. I was aware that the outrageous cigarette tax is a control/freedom robbing issue {as well as a huge bogus revenue raiser} and that smokers actually cost the system LESS than non smokers. So as a smoker I get to pay much more than my fair share for guys like GF who don't smoke and actually cost the system MORE to keep alive in their old age.:eek: What a thrill:rolleyes:

[Sabre]

Cigarette taxes? Hell, man, those are 100% voluntary. If you don't like 'em, then quit smoking. That is part of the reason the taxes are high, after all - the Benevolent State wants to give you an added incentive to do something good for yourself, even if it is something that seems like a complete no-brainer to anybody who's not already addicted to the damn things...:rolley

Smokers are just the easiest minority of the day to demonize and extort huge, unfair amounts of tax money from. They WILL get around to the rest of you in good time. Like sugar ? It's bad for you and it's use is completely voluntary so I hope you won't mind if they slap a 300% tax on every bag you buy. What about fast food ? A proven killer that is also completely voluntary so slapping a HUGE tax on all those porky, belly bombaholics would be just as justifiable as robbing the smokers blind. If those don't suit you how about soda, beef, beer, margarine? Get the idea yet ? I don't want to hear you bitchin when they get around to your favorite vice.

[GF.]

:D :D :D :D :D :rolleyes:

Though, seriously - I don't eat fast food more than a few times a year, because it tastes like something we try not to say too often around here. Likewise with margarine. Give me a little actual butter, or I'll do without, thanks. They're talking about a hefty tax on sodas around here already, and it doesn't bother me.... because I don't think I buy so much as a can a month.

But sugar? Beef?

Do you realize how much too much of that stuff we eat already? We spend less, as a percentage of our total income, on food than any people in the world, and we average over a half a pound of meat a day. And the benefit of all this good, cheap, high-quality food? We've got the fattest population in the world.

And the result, of course, is that Americans tend to die from relatively preventable stuff like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers, all of which are related to being too fat and eating too much meat....

And the beauty of it is that - on average - the poorer you are in this country, the fatter you're likely to be.

:confused:

But hey, no need to tax all that stuff (well, except maybe the fast food crap :rolleyes: ). Just pull the subsidies and let the prices go up to where people will start thinking about how many calories they pour down their gullet instead of just 'supersizing' everything :eek:

Not that that's gonna happen when it would cause Big Agribusiness and the Fast Food industry to lose billions and billions of dollars in subsidies and profits. Better to let the US consumer population pay for it in taxes that go to cover health care costs associated with preventable diseases.

And don't fool yourself - living a long time costs peanuts compared to dying over the span of a couple years of chemotherapy. Living a long, healthy life and then keeling over pretty quickly at the end is where the cost savings come in. We're just all so scared of dying that we'd rather drag things out another six months or a year at something over 6 figures a pop. During which time we're apt to be so damn sick that we can't enjoy whatever time the additional suffering might buy...

And yeah, I pay taxes on a beer or two a day. So what? If they get too high, then I guess I'll either quit drinking the stuff or start making my own....

[Bill Gunn]

The taxes in NY are ridiculous.
Here's how bad they are...

Ripley NY is on the shore of Lake Erie, right on the border of Western NYS and Western Pennsylvania as shown on the map...

The sign is right on Rt 5 which is a main road that runs through the small town (I added the "White Out" the entire word is actually on the sign)...

[Altjaeger]

:D :D :D :D :D :rolleyes:

Though, seriously - I don't eat fast food more than a few times a year, because it tastes like something we try not to say too often around here. Likewise with margarine. Give me a little actual butter, or I'll do without, thanks. They're talking about a hefty tax on sodas around here already, and it doesn't bother me.... because I don't think I buy so much as a can a month.

But sugar? Beef?

Do you realize how much too much of that stuff we eat already? We spend less, as a percentage of our total income, on food than any people in the world, and we average over a half a pound of meat a day. And the benefit of all this good, cheap, high-quality food? We've got the fattest population in the world.

And the result, of course, is that Americans tend to die from relatively preventable stuff like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers, all of which are related to being too fat and eating too much meat....

And the beauty of it is that - on average - the poorer you are in this country, the fatter you're likely to be.

:confused:

But hey, no need to tax all that stuff (well, except maybe the fast food crap :rolleyes: ). Just pull the subsidies and let the prices go up to where people will start thinking about how many calories they pour down their gullet instead of just 'supersizing' everything :eek:

Not that that's gonna happen when it would cause Big Agribusiness and the Fast Food industry to lose billions and billions of dollars in subsidies and profits. Better to let the US consumer population pay for it in taxes that go to cover health care costs associated with preventable diseases.

And don't fool yourself - living a long time costs peanuts compared to dying over the span of a couple years of chemotherapy. Living a long, healthy life and then keeling over pretty quickly at the end is where the cost savings come in. We're just all so scared of dying that we'd rather drag things out another six months or a year at something over 6 figures a pop. During which time we're apt to be so damn sick that we can't enjoy whatever time the additional suffering might buy...

And yeah, I pay taxes on a beer or two a day. So what? If they get too high, then I guess I'll either quit drinking the stuff or start making my own....

:eek::rolleyes::confused::rolleyes:\

I do not know where to even begin at such childish self-centeredness and misplaced certainity. I think I will let the ignorance of that post stand for iself.

[45seventy]

What part of that post is childish, or self centered?
GF made clear, concise points, of which are true.

[LampLighter]

Here is a quote from GF:


But sugar? Beef?

Do you realize how much too much of that stuff we eat already? We spend less, as a percentage of our total income, on food than any people in the world, and we average over a half a pound of meat a day. And the benefit of all this good, cheap, high-quality food? We've got the fattest population in the world.

And the result, of course, is that Americans tend to die from relatively preventable stuff like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers, all of which are related to being too fat and eating too much meat....


Precisely my point in crossbow arguments, and in many debates. I have said that time after time. I am going to know how to find this one in the archives :D .

[TinStar]

GF,

I don't mind paying taxes for worthwhile things; but the fact is that many things we pay for are not. Like welfare to those able-bodied enough to work, payiung for medical services for illegals that is breaking some hospitals in the SW, money for ACORN, etc., etc. I think if you draw a list up to compare you might worthless beating out worthwhile.
I for one didn't enjoy helping the pay the bill for His Arrogance to take his wife on a date to NYC. While we all know that such things as the military are good I think you use too broad a brush when looking at "benefits" versus "worthless crap".
Personally I am not happy at all paying school taxes so that the lefties can indoctrinate the kids.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[ncboman]

Welfare has quietly been replaced by disability.

Remember this when reading news on health care reform.

ncboman

[GF.]

TinStar -

If your point is simply that far too high a percentage of every tax dollar goes to Worthless instead of Worthwhile, you will get NO argument from me. We tried to do away with welfare benefits for those able to support themselves and - presto! - just as NC said, suddenly it turns out that these people (and their kids) all have 'disabilities' up the Wazoo.

The question is, are we willing to pay what it costs in the short term to get to the solution that's actually sustainable in the long term?

Like anything else - the cheapest solution is usually the least cost-effective...





But what cheap food and fat people have to do with crossbows....:confused::confused::confused:

[45seventy]

As for as 'his arrogance" going on a date in NYC on the taxpayers dime, how many taxpayer dimes did we spend when GWB got a wild hair and decided that some brush needed to be cut out at Crawford. That place ought to be treeless by now.

[Sabre]

:D :D :D :D :D :rolleyes:

Though, seriously - I don't eat fast food more than a few times a year, because it tastes like something we try not to say too often around here. Likewise with margarine. Give me a little actual butter, or I'll do without, thanks. They're talking about a hefty tax on sodas around here already, and it doesn't bother me.... because I don't think I buy so much as a can a month.

But sugar? Beef?

Do you realize how much too much of that stuff we eat already? We spend less, as a percentage of our total income, on food than any people in the world, and we average over a half a pound of meat a day. And the benefit of all this good, cheap, high-quality food? We've got the fattest population in the world.

And the result, of course, is that Americans tend to die from relatively preventable stuff like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers, all of which are related to being too fat and eating too much meat....

And the beauty of it is that - on average - the poorer you are in this country, the fatter you're likely to be.

:confused:

But hey, no need to tax all that stuff (well, except maybe the fast food crap :rolleyes: ). Just pull the subsidies and let the prices go up to where people will start thinking about how many calories they pour down their gullet instead of just 'supersizing' everything :eek:

Not that that's gonna happen when it would cause Big Agribusiness and the Fast Food industry to lose billions and billions of dollars in subsidies and profits. Better to let the US consumer population pay for it in taxes that go to cover health care costs associated with preventable diseases.

And don't fool yourself - living a long time costs peanuts compared to dying over the span of a couple years of chemotherapy. Living a long, healthy life and then keeling over pretty quickly at the end is where the cost savings come in. We're just all so scared of dying that we'd rather drag things out another six months or a year at something over 6 figures a pop. During which time we're apt to be so damn sick that we can't enjoy whatever time the additional suffering might buy...

And yeah, I pay taxes on a beer or two a day. So what? If they get too high, then I guess I'll either quit drinking the stuff or start making my own.... Who gives a shit what vices/habits you personally do or don't have ? Surely you must be able to grasp the concept that we'll all hang together or we'll all hang seperately at some point ? Judas priest GF, you can be the most arrogant, over educated, ignorant douche bag i've ever had the displeasure of conversing with sometimes.

[Sabre]

GF,

I don't mind paying taxes for worthwhile things; but the fact is that many things we pay for are not. Like welfare to those able-bodied enough to work, payiung for medical services for illegals that is breaking some hospitals in the SW, money for ACORN, etc., etc. I think if you draw a list up to compare you might worthless beating out worthwhile.
I for one didn't enjoy helping the pay the bill for His Arrogance to take his wife on a date to NYC. While we all know that such things as the military are good I think you use too broad a brush when looking at "benefits" versus "worthless crap".
Personally I am not happy at all paying school taxes so that the lefties can indoctrinate the kids.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

Wasting tax payer dollars runs all the way from top to bottom in government Tinstar. A perfect examlpe took place here at the town level last year. One of the town highway dept. tractors { a compact used for cutting grass along roads and plowing parking lots/sidewalks} cracked an oil ring and was going through 2 quarts of oil a day. Nothing else wrong with the tractor at all, just the cracked ring. I checked with the dealer to see how much to hone the cylinders and replace the pistons and rings. Seven hundred dollars woulda done it and I presented that estimate at the board meeting. So what did the board do ? Well they voted to replace the tractor with a brand new one at a cost of 20,000 to the taxpayers of course ! These people have no idea how to live within a budget and the only way they know how to solve a problem is by throwing gobs of "our" money at it !

[Sabre]

TinStar -

If your point is simply that far too high a percentage of every tax dollar goes to Worthless instead of Worthwhile, you will get NO argument from me. We tried to do away with welfare benefits for those able to support themselves and - presto! - just as NC said, suddenly it turns out that these people (and their kids) all have 'disabilities' up the Wazoo.

What, you mean like the executives at AIG ?