How old do you think this deer was?

[Deerslayer]

I just back the mount from the taxidermist for this buck back that I shot with my muzzleloader last year. He also pulled a tooth and aged the deer for me. How old do you think that this deer was? He was 18 inches wide. It was shot on public land in SE Wisconsin.

Some unique things also that the taxidermist pointed out about this buck that he doesn't see often was that this buck had a mane running down the back of his neck like a horse has only much shorter. He also had a double throat patch which you can kind of see in the photo.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/Deerslayer3006/BIGBUCK1.jpg?t=1245780572

[dave-t.]

I'll jump in and say 3yrs.

[DaveHawk]

Untill you mentioned the double throat patch I would have said 2.5 to 3.5 but I would have to add a year 3.5 to 4.5 unless he is on the decline which is hard to tell with him laying down.

[Bushman]

Dave is hedging his bet at 3 because he is either 2.5 or 3.5. SE WI. has pretty good agriculture so that can grow bigger antlers sooner than up north. That looks like a 6.5' box on that truck and the deer does not look like it would go to the back of the box so that says 2.5 to me. The beading around the bases say older buck so probably 3.5. The angle of those antlers says 2.5, but the mass at the bases and the 18" spread says 3.5. The longer Roman nose says 3.5, but the thinner front shoulders say 2.5 again. Most public land deer don't get to see too many hunting seasons so that says 2.5 to me again. I think in retrospect that you have an enigma deer there so I'm going to say 3 too.:D

[Herne]

The double gorget patch is merely hereditary. They are born with it or not.

Spread and size for my money is not a factor. You get good old ones and bad old ones, overpopulation and well managed.

The roman nose. I've heard the same said of roe, as well as greyness in the face. Grayness says a little, and the long face simply says he is over 24 months and molar 3 is fully erupted which we knew already.

Look at the slope of the pedicles - assuming the taxidermist has kept the same slope in the mount as he had in life, which may don't, one has to say that buck is mature. Equally they are well set down, which indicates age - I'd trust that lot long before I'd trust teeth, unless its a proper tooth section.

It also looks like the tines are pretty smooth with no pearling, so again, he is likely to be older but not of great quality. Smooth and squared off pedicles and he'ed be younger of course.

So the likelihood is 4- 5. which is 3.5 to 4.5 your count.

In for a penny and in for a £. :)

Now we will see if the taxidermist is as good as reading teeth as he thinks he is, because teeth can vary, and pedicles by and large don't :) :) :) Theyy are a pretty good give-away, but for some reason not much used in the US

[southtexas]

Nice buck!

What's all that white stuff all over the front yard?:)

[dave-t.]

Bushman, the nose/face looked possibly 4, and the shoulders looked 2, so the guess was 3.;)

[Bob S]

Based solely on the shape of the head, since anything else is impossible with him laying on the truck bed, I am going to say 4 1/2.

[Sabre]

Herne, Looks like a fairly scrawny 3.5 year old or a real nice 2.5 from around my area. I wish I could post pictures because I'd show you some 2.5's and 3.5's with coronets/pedicles sloped to the same degree. I have a very nice 2.5 on the wall behind me with a rack that looks very similar to that buck, though not quite as wide{17" spread on mine}. I don't know much about Wisconsin deer but truthfully, if that buck were taken around here I'd have to say he was just a nice 2.5 year old. His neck and front quarters aren't very big {in fact he just doesn't look that heavy in the body at all} his rack is fairly wide but thin/spindly and he's lacking good tine length.

[ncboman]

How old do you think this deer was?

2 1/2 yrs old.

ncboman

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I'm going to say he is an old deer. At least 5 1/2 but more likely 6+. I say this because of my gut reaction when I first saw him. His face, nose, knees and the size of his feet. He appears to be just past his peak but not quite into full decline although his scrawny appearance could be an indication that decline was coming on. Ungulates are as healthy as their teeth are. Now I have been wrong before and there's no reason why I can't be wrong now but I'm going to hold to my opinion that it is an older deer.

Alan

[Deerslayer]

Thanks for all of the great analysis and comments. When I shot this deer last year I had guessed that he was 3.5 years old. I have shot enough basket racked bucks and spikes and forkies around here that I figured the spikes and forkies were 1.5 years old and the basket racked bucks were 2.5 years old and anything this big had to be at least 3.5 years old, but I was wrong. The teeth say that this buck was 2.5 years old. It really makes me wonder what he would have looked like in another year or two? The fun part is that a couple of days after shooting this buck it was the last day of the muzzleloader season and I was hunting the same stand and I shot a doe. Prior to the doe coming through I saw this guy's twin brother or even slightly larger cousin slipping through the swamp right at first light about 100 yards away. Assuming that he survived the late bow season I would love to see that buck again with an unused tag in my pocket. Being public land a lot of other guys would like to see him too.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Now I have been wrong before and there's no reason why I can't be wrong now but
Alan

See told you so!

Alan

[ncboman]

:)

I was guessing based on the pedicle diameter. ;)


Prior to the doe coming through I saw this guy's twin brother or even slightly larger cousin slipping through the swamp right at first light about 100 yards away.

How do you know it wasn't the same buck?

ncboman

[Altjaeger]

The fun part is that a couple of days after shooting this buck it was the last day of the muzzleloader season and I was hunting the same stand and I shot a doe. Prior to the doe coming through I saw this guy's twin brother or even slightly larger cousin slipping through the swamp right at first light about 100 yards away.

Because his buck was already down.

[Bushman]

While you can't generalize age to pedicle diameter over a wide area, it works pretty well if you have been hunting that same area year after year and have some basis for comparison to the local deer herd. That line about wondering what the deer would have looked like in a year or two is why I gave up hunting public land in NE WI. I would think that when I saw a nice 2.5 year old basket rack only to have him walk over the next hill and become some one else's venison for the year. Frustration is applying quality deer management practices on public land.

[ncboman]

Because his buck was already down.

sorry, I misread the post. :o

ncboman

[Sabre]

:)

I was guessing based on the pedicle diameter. ;

ncboman

Not only that but he just looks young in the face, his nose is too small {older bucks have big horse snouts around here} his neck too thin and his ribcage is awful narrow. Funny thing to me is, many of the pro QDM, self proclaimed "trophy hunters" here ain't so good at agin' 'em as this 'ol red neck meat hunter.:D

[pepaw]

Nice one.

With just a photo to go by, 3.5.

Just read the whole post and discovered I was wrong.


pepaw

[Herne]

Sabre- you could well be right. Initially I thought the coronets were well set down with decalcification each year, but looking closer it would seem they are not - or not as much as I thought.

As you know, I'm not good on whitetails, in that sort of detail. I've usually been quite close in the past, (they were Texan deer so that could make a difference) but quite happy to take a nosedive on a guess!

Anyway, its a bit of fun.

To be honest, the Europeans would argue that you cannot consistently do better than young (he's not) middle aged (he probably is) or mature/old (almost certainly not). Beyond that you need the teeth, and you don't need better for management purposes. So I'm extending myself, and I'll probably learn something.!

[southtexas]

"To be honest, the Europeans would argue that you cannot consistently do better than young (he's not) middle aged (he probably is) or mature/old (almost certainly not). Beyond that you need the teeth, and you don't need better for management purposes."

Herne: I think that's pretty much true over here, too.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

"To be honest, the Europeans would argue that you cannot consistently do better than young (he's not) middle aged (he probably is) or mature/old (almost certainly not). Beyond that you need the teeth, and you don't need better for management purposes."

Herne: I think that's pretty much true over here, too.

I'll plus one to that as well. If the buck is standing I can do a fairly decent job of "young" or "old" but If I play the odds (like my wife: You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, You're going to get stopped if you don't slow down, .................) then I'm bound to get it right someday. Until then I will provide other with an opportunity to gloat at my expense. Everybody has to have a purpose!

Alan

[Smokey]

When I lived in Northern IL I saw a lot of nice deer with big racks. There is a lot of good food available in that area - lots of corn. Made for good looking deer and very good eating.

[Herne]

We have that problem too- we grow the best roe in the world, and you get used to big deer at a young age. And some very big racks for the species.

Those who have done the European bit know of the weights and numbers of size I treat as normal, are not really - Buttttttttt, there ain't none of them can stop a 270 round in the ribs. :)

[ncboman]

When we kill a good buck we all ponder the age of the beast. We want him to be old, I guess as a mark of his stealth and cunning.

An old one will have thick bases and usually some junk. A clean rack usually indicates a 'not old' buck.