Fire Pistons

[DancesWithKnives]

Anyone regularly use a fire piston? I've tinkered with some owned by others and enjoyed the gadget value. When properly set up, they seem to work fine. There are obviously many alternative ways to start a fire but I'm curious whether anyone on HA uses a fire piston regularly?

DWK

[DancesWithKnives]

If you haven't seen one (there are several internet videos on them), fire pistons operate on the same principle as a diesel engine. They are small cylinders with a rod (piston) that holds a bit of tinder on its end. Hit the top of the rod and the piston compresses the air in the cylinder enough to ignite the tinder with no other spark source. Pretty cool gadgets, regardless of whether you feel they are useful in a survival kit.

DWK

[ncboman]

I've never used one and if not for the internet I doubt I would have ever heard of them. :)

Kind of amazing. At one time I entertained buying one but now I'm thinking I should try and make my own. :rolleyes:

ncboman

[DancesWithKnives]

There are a couple of instructional write-ups circulating around. One guy even put out a video on how to make one from a piece of stainless tubing and a regular steel bolt. Takes a little machining on the end of the bolt in order to keep the O-ring seated and create a tinder pocket, but you could do it with a small lathe and drill (or even a file for the O-ring groove, if you were careful enough).

I'm too damn lazy to make one when I see them available for reasonable prices.:D But your bragging rights would certainly be a lot higher than if you simply bought one!;)

DWK

[snake river rufus]

I've seen them and read magazine articles but I think any fire starting tool should be able to be operated using only one hand.

[DancesWithKnives]

Very good point. If you had to, I think you could wedge a fire piston between your boots and smack the top with your one hand to ignite the tinder. However, as you point out, a mechanical device like this with moving parts is likely to be harder to use one handed than some other common firestarters.

Thanks for your observation,

DWK

[crawfish]

This is a pic of the one that is in my hunting pack. It gets used about every fourth trip just because I like to use it.
The piston is all plexiglas. The blob of brown is true tinder fungus (Inonotus Obliquus) I use that mostly. A piece that big is enough for hundreds of shots.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d198/stillcrawfish/2009-05-06_fire-piston_0027.jpg

[DancesWithKnives]

Thanks for posting the image!

I've seen a couple guys (one on E-Bay) selling plexiglas units and had heard that they worked pretty well. Do you recall who made your fire piston?

DWK

[crawfish]

Guy named Steve Leung email was firepiston@yahoo.com don't know if it is still good.

[crawfish]

Steve is still around found his site www.firepiston.com

[DancesWithKnives]

Thanks!

[DancesWithKnives]

For you home gamers, here's a do-it-yourself fire piston:

http://wiki.goingprepared.com/index.php?title=MagLite_fire_piston

I have an old mini MagLite with a busted switch mechanism so I may change my decision to buy and try making one.

DWK

[crawfish]

Found this site. Might want to try this before you use that Mini-Mag.
http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/firepiston/rbmodelt/index.html

[DancesWithKnives]

That looks good too! The reason the MagLite piston appealed to me is that I already have a dead Mag.

Thanks,

DWK

[ncboman]

The novelty is there in making one from a maglite or even buying one, which I may do yet to have a working model, but I've read these are primitive in origin. I doan know for sure if this is true, but if it is, a good challange would be to make one from natural materials without modern tools.

Do you think rivercane or reeds could be made to work?

I often ponder firemaking and the local ancients. There doesn't seem to be any indication of difficulty for them to build a fire. I suspect getting/moving wood to camp for fuel more difficult. I strongly suspect they routinely killed standing trees in or near villages for future firewood as the trees died and eventually fell.

We know they cleared land locally because one of the local areas is named Rocky Hock, taken from a longer Indian term meaning 'beautiful gardens' or 'land of beautiful gardens'. Rocky Hock consists of several miles sandy land along the river. Sandy land is much easier to work than the 'stiff' land in other parts of the county so the 'gardens' or farms in that area makes sense. I've seen several spots along the river where the Indians smoked huge amounts of mussels, apparently over long periods of time, perhaps generations, so seafood was a major part of their diet here also.

ncboman

[crawfish]

I don't think river cane by it self would hold the pressure created by the plunger. Bet if you wrapped the cane with sinew and coated with a natural glue made from hide and hoofs it would hold. I have seen pistons made from horn that are both beautiful and expensive. Don't see why you couldn't make one from cow horn if you could find one large enough.

[DancesWithKnives]

As crawfish says, horn and hardwood are traditional materials for them. Softer or thinner materials would need to be reinforced, as he points out. I think that rather than reinforcing something weak, you'd be better off just starting with sturdy enough materials---especially for your first one.

I'd go with a hardwood block and plunger and just groove the plunger for an appropriate size o-ring. Although one set of instructions has the maker gluing the o-ring into the groove, I've seen plenty of fire pistons where the o-ring is simply held in place by a groove near the end of the plunger. It would certainly be easier to change if it were not glued.

In any event, let us know if you bring one up to operational status!

DWK

[ncboman]

We'll see.

I gotta at least try one with the reed. Bamboo is some pretty tuff stuff and rivercane is abundant around here now. I kinda doubt there was as much of it here when Indians had the place though.

I doan know where I might come up with a horn without buyin it.

and makin one without modern tools seems almost impossible to me. hmmm... :rolleyes:

ncboman

[DaveHawk]

very interesting thanks

I found this site http://www.onagocag.com/piston.html

NC you should like this, there is a flint napping tread

[Renegade]

I must say, I've never seen one of these. Ya learn somtin' new everyday!
I'm now trying to figure out how. Is it the compression of air and it's escape thru the side space that creates the friction and thus heat? Similar to the principle of hvac equipment?

[DancesWithKnives]

It actually works much like a diesel engine. Merely compressing a gas enough will cause it to get very hot. Add some flammable material and you have combustion. [There shouldn't be any escaping air.] The traditional diesel engines used no spark plugs or any ignition source other than the extreme compression of the fuel/air mixture. The fire piston operates on the same principle.

I'm so lazy I still don't have one.:o

DWK

[sharpshooter94]

I just built a fire piston from PVC, and o-ring, and an old drum stick. Haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet though. Thats something for tomorrow.

[DancesWithKnives]

Cool---be sure to let us know how your tests go!

Thanks for the input,

DWK

[tommyt]

After reading tis post and looking at a few Ideas and How-to's
I looked up and saw a Door Hinge "THE PIN" Looks Like it would be the perfect
Rod or do you guys think its too narrow

[DancesWithKnives]

I just slapped a micrometer on the pins for my front door. They are very close to 6 mm. It looks like it might be tricky to create a decent size tinder cavity in the end of a 6 mm pin. However, I have a small condo with a light door. I've got to believe that heavier doors for large houses are supported by larger diameter pins. If you could find a 10-13 mm pin, I think that would be pretty nice.

Best of success,

DWK